What would you (we) pay for New Transportation?

[Captain Crook]

Inspired by my friend DVC-Landbaron who asked me where I would draw the line regarding new Disney charges.

QUESTION: If Disney were to consider a plan to "upgrade" their transportation, be it monorail, light rail, combination, whatever, what would we, the Disney public, be willing to pay for that upgrade upfront?

It seems obvious that it {new transportation}won't be built out of the goodness of their heart or even in the name of efficency, so what would we do if we knew the plans were in motion and that the project needed assistance. Would we "approve" of a Resort Transportation surcharge of $3.00 per night or a day guest transportation charge?

In my reply to Landbaron on the other thread I implied that as a Resort guest I would be mightily offended by a "transportaion charge" but if Disney let us know ahead of time what that money was earmarked for, I may not feel the same...

I know this has been touched upon in the past, but I think we have a real good group of participants from all spectrums right now and I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

[space42]

I think I would not object to a $2-3 per night surcharge if I knew it would help to build / expand the monorail line. I would love to be able to get to all of the parks via monorail!!!

What I would like to know is why they have not built any new monorail lines since EPCOT. With EPCOT, they built the monorail before the park was even finished! There was not even a question of NOT expanding the line to their new park. From what I have been reading mostly on this board, the Disney Company was in bad financial shape in the early 80's. So how did they manage to build a new monorail line and a COMPLETE theme park in those tough times? And now, with Disney being as big as they are, we are talking about guests helping pay for the expansion with surcharges and accepting 1/2 built parks! This bugs me. The fact that I love the monorail so much is why I would agree to the suchage though

I rember the monorail castmembers encouraging my family to take the trip over to see the new park under construction in early '82. That was real neat.

Sorry for rambling on. I just love monorails!

 

[toefungus]

I would be alright with a few dollars added per night to the resorts. The thing I don't want is a separate charge for using the transportation system.

 

[Mickies'Girl]

I think they should have taken some of the billions they just spent to purchase Fox and upgrade the transportation system, just because they should. The price of lodging will continue to go up even if no upgrades are made to the transportation system, unless attendance fall way off.

 

[Captain Crook]

Mickies Girl, I understand and appreciate your feeling...But these are really two different points. The Fox deal has no direct bearing on the Parks and IMO the only way we'll be seeing new monorails or other Transportation improvements is if it's capitalized up front...Therefore my question is, would we, should we agree to increased prices or new charges if we knew that new transportation issues were the direct beneficiary...

 

[Another Voice]

Of course the purchase of Family Family has everything to do with the monorail expansion. A final, clear plan was put forth at the beginning of the year for a new transportation system for WDW. It was killed by Corporate over the cash outlay - the cash that they now are using to buy CBN/Family/Fox/whatever.

It's a question of priorities. The parks are not an area for investment any more, they're a place to plunder cash from. And by the way, "rumors" have a transportation charge coming anyway for the existing busses and monorails. I guess the question really should be "How much are you willing to pay now?"

 

[Captain Crook]

If the Fox purchase is a "done deal" then it has nothing to do with where I'm trying to go with this. I'm really interested in opinions as to whether we would be OK with additional charges to pay for monorails, light rails etc., if it were expressly presented that way (talking WDW not The Disney Corporation as a whole)...

We can hash rehash whats been done, but I feel thats counterproductive (to my mental state, anyway ). Once something is done we need to discuss the ramifications and, in this case, the possibilites...

I can see charges for a specific need being viable in both procurment of cash & reduction in more PR problems (i.e. rates increase or are added with no clear-cut guest benefit). I think I would pony up a few bucks per night if Disney had guaranteed (so to speak) that this was where the funds would be going...

 

[johare]

Sure, why not. Then next year they can tack on another $1 for a sanitation surcharge, followed by a .50 cent light bulb replacement surcharge. Could get ridiculous.

Seriously though, at best I could justify them adding the surcharge to the hotels which are served by the monorail (Contemporary, Poly and GF).

 

[Another Voice]

Disney already did this study at WDW and found that the fee guests were willing to pay didn't generate the profit Corporate was looking for. Burbank killed any transportation plan and saved the cash for other projects - like the Fox Family. There's no such thing as a WDW-only issue when these kinds of dollars are involved.

And frankly I'm getting a little sick about all the "plussing" that's being done on property these days. A visit to WDW is little more than an invitation to spend more money on upgraded tickets (E-Nights), upgraded seating (Fantasmic Dinners) or ugraded basic services (valet parking). And now you're proposing that I fork over more money simply to get from my overpriced resort to an overpriced theme park.

How long before they put a toll booth on the walkway from the Yacht & Beach Clubs and Epcot?

 

[Mickies'Girl]

If the Fox purchase and the upgrade to the transportation system are unrelated then where is the money coming from to make the Fox purchase? It is my understanding that the most profitable segment of the Disney Corp. is the theme park business. Is this correct? If so, then they (Disney Corp.) are sucking the blood out of the parks for other unrelated ventures. Why should we have to pay an additional charge for transportation when there are already ample funds available to pay for an upgraded transportation system. I also think they should stop building hotels for a while.

 

[Captain Crook]

AV you did exactly what I hoped with your first sentence by stating

Disney already did this study and found that the fee guests were willing to pay wouldn't generate the profit Corporate was looking for.

Good discussion material. Something I can learn from...But then you say

And now you're proposing that I fork over more money simply to get from my overpriced resort to an overpriced theme park.

Well, I'm proposing nothing, just asking a question for discussion. I don't have enough information to determine whether this would be a good idea or a bad idea, hence my wish to discuss it. Further, we obviously come from different places as I neither see the Disney Resorts or the Parks as overpriced. I spent last Saturday touring Key West with visiting relatives. We did lunch & dinner plus attractions, a little shopping and my day cost me over $300.00. We got home and my wife and I discussed the very fact that visiting WDW isn't really that expensive in comparison.

Of course the decision to buy Fox Family has direct repurcussions on WDW. The Corporation doesn't segregate it's profit centers to pay for themselves so they all are in the mix together. But if the Fox deal is "done" as you said, how can it any longer be relevent to what they will do with regard to Transportation issues in the future (other than nothing because they spent the money)? We have to move on, unless every thread about any rumor will now be linked to the Fox deal...i.e. Can't be rehabbing Splash Mountain, they spent all the money on the Fox deal...Can't fix JIYI, they spent the money...Can't fix the crack in the sidewalk...Can't...Can't...sigh

 

[KHansen454]

I took the transportation survey last May. I'm not sure about the results, but I said that I would have no problem paying a fee to use the transportation. I think a small charge is totally resonable, like 5.00 a day or something. - Karen

 

[Another Voice]

Actually, there already is a transportation charge that’s been imposed, but most people aren’t aware of it. A buck or two from every passport is actually given to WDW Transportation Co., which is a separate legal entity that provides the bus, ferry and monorail transportation on property (it’s really a tax dodge and a way to get the federal government to pay for the busses’ gas, but that’s another thread). On all of the old tickets and still in some of the fine print you can still see this mentioned. It also protects WDW Co. from lawsuits when a bus hits a guest’s car (which happens fairly regularly). You used to (and I think still technically are able to) buy a separate transportation ticket but no one has checked those things in years. The only place they really even count heads anymore is at the Swan and Dolphin because Disney charges Sheraton and Weston for each quest that’s picked up. That’s also why Disney doesn’t provide bus transportation to The Greens, Disney didn’t see the profit in bussing the serviceman and servicewomen, so they let the government pick that up. And remember when WDW busses also served the Hotel Plaza hotels? Not enough money there either.

When the plan for the future was first presented, this “hidden” aspect of corporate accounting and legal work was supposed to remain hidden. WDW wants to keep transportation as a service provided to all of the guests, and they want the guests to see it as a service – another way that WDW is different than all the others. That was all well and good, but with one problem. The master plan cost a fair amount of money. It would have served WDW for the next twenty-five years; Florida thought it was worth it but needed Burbank’s approval to shell out the money.

The plan hit Burbank and poor old Doopey started to shriek in pain from the heat generated from a certain office. The poor Floridians didn’t realize that the bottom had just fallen out of both Film and Consumer Products and that California Adventure was already circled by buzzards. WDW’s only purpose was to be a giant ATM and here they come demanding CAPITAL! The nerve they had! After the first round of firings, the word came down that if WDW wanted more toys, then WDW had to pay for it themselves.

A lot of pencils were sharpened in Florida, a lot of plans were changed and a lot of opinion takers spent hours in the hot sun at the gates. After a fair amount of work, a new plan was created and sent to the West Coast. The answer from Burbank was “We didn’t say break even! We said MAKE MONEY – a 20% return on my bonus – er – I mean on the company’s capital! I can make wartime romance movies or buy low-rated cable stations with these funds! Why should I give my gold to tourists!”.

Now except for the old Orient Express and certain cabbies that work the airport – no transportation system gets a 20% return on capital. Worse, as the prices went higher, fewer guests were willing to buy a ticket. And the fewer guests that are park hoping, the lower the attendance gets. Think what the attendance at Animal Kingdom would be like if you knew you couldn’t leave midday for another park. And then all those people hoping to the resorts for a meal and some drinks – they’re all gone too. The demand for profit started an economic spiral that not only took down the transportation system, but also took down the parks and resorts as well.

So the plan was killed deader than the hopes for ‘Scary Movie 3’. A whole bunch of busses have been ordered and a half hearted plan for ‘diamond lanes’ has been put forward to help ease the congestion. It’s a rather sore subject for everyone involved (and I don’t think $5 billion spent on ‘The Power Rangers’ is going make a lot of people feel better).

Anyway, those are the “rumors” that I hear…

 

[Amor4Pooh]

Just recently the prices of the WDW parks increased. Maybe this was already posted, and since I am fairly new to this board I missed it, but what was that increase attributed to? An increase in price should have led to an increase of benefits for paying that price right? I would have thought that by increasing that price, there should have been some purpose in mind. Does anyone know if this money was intended to improve anything at the WDW resort?
Thanks,
Nichole

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Just recently the prices of the WDW parks increased. Maybe this was already posted, and since I am fairly new to this board I missed it, but what was that increase attributed to?

Awe, that's an easy one. It's only one word. And it's a word so new, and unofficial, that it still gets flagged as misspelled in my word processor program. The authorized, sanctioned and official spin is quite a whopper though, so make sure you're sitting down, don't read it if you've just eaten and keep small children away from the monitor. OK. Here goes!

Answer: Fastpass!!

Yep! You read it right. Fastpass. They said that the 'value' of the Walt Disney World experience has increased since they implemented fastpass (meaning guests could now experience more of the attractions) so it holds to reason that the price of that experience should reflect the higher value!

But you've got to hand it to them. At least for the WAY they did it. With a straight face! Not a smile in the group. Almost as if they believed it themselves! Amazing, isn't it?

 

[HBK]

But you've got to hand it to them. At least for the WAY they did it. With a straight face! Not a smile in the group. Almost as if they believed it themselves! Amazing, isn't it?

If you tell yourself something enough times, you start to believe it....ask OJ

Just picture Ei$ner sitting at his desk....

"I'm a creative person....I'm a creative person....I am, a creative person".

"We are a content company...we are a content company....we are a content company..."

"I deserve a HUGE bonus....I deserve a HUGE bonus.....I deserve a HUGE bonus..."

 

[DisDuck]

Nice try Captain Crook. It looks like you opened Pandora's box.

So big deal a couple of bucks included in the ticket price goes towards transportation so does some of my tax dollars here in NJ and I rarely use public transportation. Maybe WDW should do away with all transportation and drop their ticket prices the few bucks then 'everyone' would be happy.

Back to the question: Move the entry booths (where parking fee collected) more to the beginning so it covers all roadways instead of having 1 set of booths per park. Increase price by 1 or 2 dollars then build a central TTC with Monorails and light rail to all parks and resorts. Include charge on room for onsite guests and now have one central parking/transportation area. Advantage, one and only one area to maintain, reduce scattered parking facilities, reduce internal traffic (might be able to convert to electric busses as no longer competing with other cars on roadway). Impossible you say, why something similar already exists at Universal, one parking structure where everyone walks to CityWalk and parks. Miniature in scale but WDW has the room to do this right.

Makes the internal areas (surrounding parks and resorts) a carfree zone. That I would pay for even as an offsite guest.

 

[Another Voice]

Gee, that sure sounds a lot like Walt's plan - one big parking lot with boats and monorails to wisk guests to the park and between resorts. Drop off your car and spend the rest of your visit without it.

 

[YoHo]

Well, you would still need resort parking. But in general, I believe you and I are on the same page Mr. Duck Sir. The trick is Day guests. Day guests aren't going to be riding the transportation system as much (In General) and Forcing someone to go to a centralized location, then switch to a monorail and spend 20 minutes to ride to the Studios when that's the only park they intend to go to all day is a bit ludicrous. Yes, it works for MK, but that's 5 minute trip, not a twenty minute one.

 

[Missin' Walt]

Ok - A few simple thoughts to keep in mind at all times on the econ 101/transporation front.
1) All decisions are made on the basis of only 1 thing - "Does it get the stock price up?" The stock price (should) rise on the basis of two things - better earnings and better forecasted earnings prospects (growth). That means Fastpass aside or anything else aside - prices (Admission, Hotel rooms, food, valet parking, trading pins, etc.) will keep getting bumped up at a rate that exceeds general inflation as long as the total revenue increases despite the reduced attendance/numbers purchased it may cause.

2) Depite the obvious benefits that we may see from things like an expanded monorail - if it can't be measured (think green eye-shade accountant - I'm kinda one of them), it can't be managed and - hence - it won't be done. Every project requires capital and the Mouse is charging higher rates to its operating divisions than your Discover Card in default. They can't measure / don't get the "halo" effect of things like a monorail being the signature of WDW (check out postcards and web pictures) or creating a sense of uniqueness - that it just can't be copied anywhere else. The intangibles - some might call them gut instinct (someone like my name sake) just don't put the options "in the money" as quickly as they need them to.

3) Long term planning is a chapter in a business text book. These guys want the moola today! That means throw away those investments that pay off over time (long term hard assets like attractions and transportation) and cut that cook's salary now! If these guys still don't get it after the series of "on the cheap" disasters of DCA, Emperor's Groove, etc., we've got to wait for the aliens to invade or something. Denial just isn't near the intensity of the word needed here.

4) Watch out for this Fox Family purchase - it smells a lot like the dreaded "synergy". Synergy is a double edged sword. Synergy is accounting speak for "Now I can really cook some books"! Sometimes it works, sometimes it's forced for paper profits. If they buy a property (TV show) called Doug for $50 million, but the show couldn't draw an audience if you were giving away happy meals - they have to write off the investment. That's bad (less earnings, low stock price, no options dollars for moi). Hey! We can cure that with "synergy"! I'll make a ride with "Doug" as the main draw - everybody buys tickets to come into the Park, and the Park has Doug. See, Doug has value after all and I don't need to write off my (overpriced) investment! Voila - synergy saves bottom line, makes my options valuable!

5) No revenue dollars are "earmarked" for anything. This isn't a condominium association. If there was to be a parking surcharge or a hotel surcharge the first destination for those dollars is "Profit". The equivalent of the Fastpass excuse - a "transportation improvement" initiative would be better air pressure in the busses tires.

6) The main problem with charging for any internal transportation is that it would put thousands more people into their cars to avoid the fee. The biggest problem they face with transportation is that traffic jams are starting to become / may become a real issue. Once word of mouth spreads that you can spend a New York hour waiting in traffic while your hopper pass expires - it's all over.

7) The hotels on Hotel Plaza opted out of the WDW bus system because Mouse folk wanted to charge them a ridiculous amount of $ (surprise, surprise) to receive the black smoke belching wagons with ridiculous terms of use.

Finally - Another Voice certainly seems to have his fly on the wall somehow.