What would you think of this book in a classroom?

[Marseeya]

This question is for both parents and teachers.

In one of my education classes, we had to pick an award-winning young adult book written in the last five years to read and discuss in class, and then we'll be writing lesson plans for it and sharing them next week. I went to Barnes & Noble and couldn't find anything except this: Godless by Peter Hautman. (please follow the link and read the summary so I don't have to retype it )

Anyway, I read the book and didn't think it was all that -- certainly not worth an award. It didn't glorify atheism, nor did it ridicule Christianity. It really didn't delve very deeply into the issues, but was really more of a social statement on peer pressure and peer influence. However, for as weak as I thought the book was, the follow-up discussions it would generate would be really deep!

During class, we had to break up into small groups and discuss our books. One of the women in my group had already been a teacher, and was coming back to school for her masters (she's probably mid-twenties and married). She got really offended by my book and didn't even want to listen to me discuss it and said, "That wouldn't fly down south!" and "I'm NOT reading THAT book" and kept looking at me like I was some sort of freak while I tried to discuss my book. She was really making me angry! I'm not joking, but you know how that "God Warrior" woman from Wife Swap would look with her eyes bugging out of her head? That's how this woman was looking at me the entire time!

Another thing that really makes me mad about her attitude is this whole thing of diversity and multiculturalism. Our school really focuses on that, and for her to be so closed minded just amazes me. What is she going to do in a classroom if she ends up with a student who's a different religion (or an atheist) or has parents who are atheists? Religion is the subject of so much literature, even in some of the young adult books, plus they often have religious characters in them. Is it really that wrong to have a book that has an atheist for a character? You really can't avoid religious issues in an English lit classroom, and I've found out the hard way that lacking a good knowledge of the bible put me at a disadvantage when discussing older works of literature.

So, teachers, do you think this book would "fly" in your classroom? Parents, what would you do if your child wanted to read this for a project?

All opinions welcome, but please try to remain respectful.

 

[aprilgail2]

I wouldn't have a problem with it once my daughter was older (she's only 6!) I am atheist but I think maybe some of the really "religious" ones might! We had a kid that is not even allowed to celebrate halloween because its evil so I can't imagine her parents being ok with any book that is not their idea of "religion"...the kid actually had to leave school this year since all she would talk about was god and she would sing religious songs in school, many parents complained and the kids parents had to take her out of school....so I can see people like that taking issue with their kids reading that...

 

[poohandwendy]

I wouldn't have a problem with it (I am a Christian). But, I am not big on censoring reading material. Especially material that opens discussion.

As far as the other teacher, teachers are just like anyone else. They come from all different walks of life and all have different points of view. Some will be more open minded than others. I try to tell my kids that they will come across all types.

 

[Sparx]

I don't have a problem with it. And I wouldn't no matter what religion I am. I'm not a fan of censoring books.

 

[BuckNaked]

Well said, PAW, I totally agree.

As for this:

the kid actually had to leave school this year since all she would talk about was god and she would sing religious songs in school, many parents complained and the kids parents had to take her out of school....

Too bad the little girl's parents didn't hire a good lawyer rather than let her be forced out of the school.

 

[aprilgail2]

Too bad the little girl's parents didn't hire a good lawyer rather than let her be forced out of the school.

They had a choice, they could have had her stop preaching to all the kids and stay in school....My daughter would tell the kid "this is school not church" and walk away from her but the kid would tell other kids things like "you better not celebrate halloween, if you dress up and go out the devil will get your soul and you will be in a living hell for the rest of your life"...and sick stuff like that!! She was terrifying other kids and you don't have to put up with that for your child in school.

 

[BuckNaked]

They had a choice, they could have had her stop preaching to all the kids and stay in school....My daughter would tell the kid "this is school not church" and walk away from her but the kid would tell other kids things like "you better not celebrate halloween, if you dress up and go out the devil will get your soul and you will be in a living hell for the rest of your life"...and sick stuff like that!! She was terrifying other kids and you don't have to put up with that for your child in school.

I agree that the parents should have told her to tone it down, but children have a right to religious expression in public schools, so long as they aren't disrupting classes.

 

[DawnCt1]

I am not familiar with the book, nor have I read it, however, I do find it ironic that the schools go overboard not to mention the word Christmas, Christian, God, Merry Christmas, Christmas tree, etc, etc, would have a book called "Godless", or maybe they would. If the schools will not tolerate individual religious expression in school, perhaps that book shouldn't be welcomed either. Just a thought.

 

[DVCLiz]

I agree that the parents should have told her to tone it down, but children have a right to religious expression in public schools, so long as they aren't disrupting classes.

Clearly, this was a case where the child WAS disruptive. I wouldn't tolerate having my child frightened in that way for one minute. And I think the right to religious expression is a private one - I don't know many schools, public or private, that would allow this kind of behavior.

 

[castleview]

I wouldn't have a problem with it once my daughter was older (she's only 6!) I am atheist but I think maybe some of the really "religious" ones might! We had a kid that is not even allowed to celebrate halloween because its evil so I can't imagine her parents being ok with any book that is not their idea of "religion"...the kid actually had to leave school this year since all she would talk about was god and she would sing religious songs in school, many parents complained and the kids parents had to take her out of school....so I can see people like that taking issue with their kids reading that...

In our aftershool sports program, we had two young kids who were taught Halloween was Satanic. While the other little kids were getting excited about trick or treating, these two had no problem letting everyone know how evil Halloween was. Fortunately, their parents were appalled that they were " preaching"and made sure their kids kept quiet.

As far as the book, I don't have a problem with it either. If there are complaints, deal with it then. It sounds like you teach older kids anyway and they are usually more open to this kind of topic.

 

[BuckNaked]

Clearly, this was a case where the child WAS disruptive. I wouldn't tolerate having my child frightened in that way for one minute. And I think the right to religious expression is a private one - I don't know many schools, public or private, that would allow this kind of behavior.

If you read what I wrote, I said that the parents should have told her to tone it down - she obviously was being disruptive. However, this notion that children have to keep their religious beliefs to themselves when they are in a public school is ridiculous. They shouldn't be permitted to be disruptive, but neither should they be prohibited from talking about their religious beliefs.

 

[Marseeya]

I am not familiar with the book, nor have I read it, however, I do find it ironic that the schools go overboard not to mention the word Christmas, Christian, God, Merry Christmas, Christmas tree, etc, etc, would have a book called "Godless", or maybe they would. If the schools will not tolerate individual religious expression in school, perhaps that book shouldn't be welcomed either. Just a thought.

Keep in mind that I'm still a grad student and I'm not in the schools yet. Our local schools where my kids go don't really go overboard at all with keeping religious references out of school. They still have Christmas programs (including traditional songs during the school program), still decorate, and things like that.

In so many of the things the kids will be reading in their lit classes, religion is prevalent. There aren't too many books that I've read that don't have some kind of religious reference.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I wouldn't have a problem with one of my kids reading that book.

However, it appears that a discussion of the book would have to include some thought on comparing and contrasting the tenents of their "made-up" religion with those of Christianity and other religions. I've never heard of the book, but it sounds like a 7th grade boy created his own religion that parallels his Father's faith, but worships a water tower instead of Jesus. Why is one right and the other wrong, etc?

I'm not sure that a Public School classroom could handle such a discussion without offending.

 

[NMAmy]

Parents, what would you do if your child wanted to read this for a project?

All opinions welcome, but please try to remain respectful.

I don't censor anything my child reads nor do I really want that occuring in her classrooms. DD is 15 and a lot of the books she's read over the years have opened up some really good conversations. Right now in English class, she's reading several short stories of Ray Bradbury's and she's been telling dh and I about them every night.

I think the other teacher who didn't want to even discuss the book with you was way off the mark. I would hope that she isn't so closed minded toward her students who may have different beliefs than hers. Books open us up to new ideas and ways of thinking--even if you don't agree with them, learning how others think is never a bad idea.

 

[Marseeya]

If you read what I wrote, I said that the parents should have told her to tone it down - she obviously was being disruptive. However, this notion that children have to keep their religious beliefs to themselves when they are in a public school is ridiculous. They shouldn't be permitted to be disruptive, but neither should they be prohibited from talking about their religious beliefs.

I agree. There are a lot of kids who express their religious beliefs in writing assignments as well -- from elementary on up to high school kids. What are teachers going to do, tell them to stop? A friend of mine assigned a paper once where kids had to write about heroes or criminals and several of the kids wrote about Jesus. This was 10th grade, I believe.

In Pennsylvania, kids are allowed so many hours a week for religious instruction and in our district it's called release time bible somethingorother. It does really bother me when, at the beginning of the school year, the director of this program comes into the school and tries to recruit kids, though. My kids have always wanted to go because it gets them out of school, plus they always give the kids treats and "prizes" at the program. DD was just bugging me last week about going. I don't appreciate the way they make it out to be some kind of "get out of jail free" card or something. I have to be the bad guy and say no.

 

[DawnCt1]

Keep in mind that I'm still a grad student and I'm not in the schools yet. Our local schools where my kids go don't really go overboard at all with keeping religious references out of school. They still have Christmas programs (including traditional songs during the school program), still decorate, and things like that.

.

Our schools are having "winter holiday", the "holiday tree", expressing concern about "red and green" in combination, etc.

 

[MsLeFever]

So - about the OP - is the book good? Is it well-written? Are the characters multi-dimentional and interesting? Is there a dynamic conflict?

As a parent, as a teacher, as a reader - I'd be more concerned about those ideas than anything else. Frankly, the book sounds really interesting and if it lives up to its blurb I'd want to read it! And - I truly hope my children NEVER have that woman from your class as a "teacher"!

 

[Disneyglobegirl]

As a parent I would not have a problem with it however I know many who would in our school system. I live in the south and it definately would not be accepted down here. I am a christian but I do not believe in banning books. Let me and my children read it for ourselves and make our own decisions about the content. I hate when certain groups try to be the voice for all. It is crazy - one of my son's 6thgrade English teachers decided that Harry Potter books would not be allowed for their book reports - I had to call her and ask her why and if the school is banning them or just her class. We got into a heated dicussion about it. He could do a report on Artimis Fowl or the Lemony Snickets books but not HP - she said it was because the kids would just use the movie to write their report - bolony!! I know better we have some very uptight people here when it comes to HP.

One of these days the southern schools are going to get in a lot of legal trouble with the way they treat religion. I know some of the classes in the elementary will say a pray in the morning with the pledge - they color nativity pics at christmas time. I also heard one teacher comment that some of the kids can't sit still because their parents do not take them to church What the heck? These things do not bother me but it will someone one day and the schools will get into alot of trouble.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I am not familiar with the book, nor have I read it, however, I do find it ironic that the schools go overboard not to mention the word Christmas, Christian, God, Merry Christmas, Christmas tree, etc, etc, would have a book called "Godless", or maybe they would. If the schools will not tolerate individual religious expression in school, perhaps that book shouldn't be welcomed either. Just a thought.

ITA!!!

In a public school system, (not a private or religious school) I would have a problem with religious material of this nature.

Yep, Marseeya, you are right, it would make for some very interesting and deep discussions. But that is my whole complaint. Religious discussions belong at Church or at Home. Not in a public school classroom.

I would have a problem with my child being exposed to this as part of a curriculum in a public school.

This is why we have the whole separation of church and state... etc....

Schools are being sued over things like using the word God in the pledge of allegiance!!! So, why then is it Okay for a public school teacher to cover a book called 'Godless'.

If a teacher cannot 'preach' or teach Christianity, or any of it's basic principles (creationism...) then no way should they be able to use literature as a thin disguise for any other religious teachings.

And, NO, I am not that religious zeaolot 'witch' with the eyes bugging out... I would also have just as big of a problem with any other religious material... including Christian material.

As the one poster mentioned. It is school, not church.

I find it hard to believe that this is the ONLY book you could find to do your assignment on?????

 

[BelleMcNally]

I am not familiar with the book, nor have I read it, however, I do find it ironic that the schools go overboard not to mention the word Christmas, Christian, God, Merry Christmas, Christmas tree, etc, etc, would have a book called "Godless", or maybe they would. If the schools will not tolerate individual religious expression in school, perhaps that book shouldn't be welcomed either. Just a thought.

I think there is a difference between a discussion of different religions within the context of a literature class and having religiously themed celebrations for particular holidays that everyone must take part in. I really doubt they are going to take "The Scarlet Letter" off of the syllabus because it talks about God...

Just my $0.02.