What the HECK is going on???!!

[CarolA]

This may be true, but there's also another sub-culture of Disney fanatics who feel it's unreasonable for others to insist that Disney be held accountable for providing agreed upon goods and services in clean and usable condition. I guess the fanatics have the "You OWE Disney for letting you spend your money here" attitude.

Well, let's see there was the man who was PHYSICALLY threatening a CM because the specific villa he wanted at OKW was not given to him. He wanted the current occupants ejected... The statement "I PAID $25,000 and I deserve that VILLA" was repeated SEVERAL times. (Like no one else in the resort paid any money, we were just freeloaders?) .... (The police were called when he told the CM and the manager that he planned to follow them out of the resort and attack them....and the IDIOT shut up before he got to go to jail However, I later heard he did not get ANY room at OKW he was asked to leave and his wife drug him out!)

There was the AP holder at AK last Saturday night BERATING a clerk at the the pin cart becasue the clerk did not have the AP pin for EE (which was never sold there and if you have a concern over avaialbity, this child was not the responsible party)

I saw an AP holder at the front desk the day a hurricane closed the parks SCREAMING at the CM because she could not get a lunch reservation in the hotel. The resturants were full.. "I have an AP and for all the money I spend here some of these other folks can wait!"

I saw a DVC member (at least someone with a tote) attempting to use the FP line, because "since I own DVC I should'nt have to stand in that standby line, that's for "regular" folks"

I wish these were isolated, but I am afraid from what I have heard they aren't. So NO, these are NOT fanatics who think Disney should live up to the agreement. These people think they entitled to abuse CMs and other guests..... This is above and beyond expecting Disney to live up to thier end of the deal.

 

[Deb & Bill]

But you have to admit, CarolA, that these isolated AP and DVC members are no different than those people who push the people out of the way at the parade because the parades are for the children or because they paid $XXX for this vacation and they are going to get in the front row at the parade. How many people do you read about on the Resorts board that complain because they didn't get towel animals even though they tipped housekeeping every day? The whining is all over the place.

Those other type guest don't have a tag to attach to them other than rude or whiny guest.

Most DVC members that I know love their DVC and enjoy their vacations without being rude or demanding.

 

[spiceycat]

okay if all dvc member agree (which I think is against the law) to raise the price to $12 a point.

Disney who watches these sites. Will just agreed and raise the conceirge collection, cruises, WDW resorts and everything else that is not DVC to $12 a point....

you realize that will happen!

 

[Nanajo1]

My comment is regarding repetitive questions. I enjoy talking about the DVC and do it every chance I get but there is a search feature that I feel is under used. Sometimes you'll see threads that are almost word for word posted a short time apart with questions that have been expertly answered already.
Like I said I love talking and explaining about DVC but I think folks could save time using the search feature first.

 

[Deb & Bill]

okay if all dvc member agree (which I think is against the law) to raise the price to $12 a point.

Disney who watches these sites. Will just agreed and raise the conceirge collection, cruises, WDW resorts and everything else that is not DVC to $12 a point....

you realize that will happen!

If you mean LOWER the concierge collection, cruises, etc to $12 a point, I'd agree with that one.

 

[spiceycat]

deb they are at $10 a point....

find the rack rate and add the taxes - that is what you are paying!

you notice I say RACK rate not with discounts.

 

[krdisneybound]

I really don't think you understand the circumstances I am talking about, or perhaps you are one of the owners who abuses the system.

It has not been stated anywhere, if I have received or rented or traded points in this thread. I totally understand what you were saying. I have a mind and understand perfectly. and PERHAPS I AM NOT ONE OF THE USERS WHO ABUSES THE SYSTEM.

 

[Doctor P]

It has not been stated anywhere, if I have received or rented or traded points in this thread. I totally understand what you were saying. I have a mind and understand perfectly. and PERHAPS I AM NOT ONE OF THE USERS WHO ABUSES THE SYSTEM.

Then I am not sure why one would support a system that allows this kind of abuse. I am totally perplexed.

 

[Dean]

If transfers were correctly managed according to the rules, many of the issues with respect to renting of points would be reduced (in particular, transfers with the intention of renting the received points).

It is my opinion that DVC could not enforce this language, legally. What they could do is stop transfers altogether, something that does not occur in any other points system that I am aware of.

 

[Doctor P]

It is my opinion that DVC could not enforce this language, legally. What they could do is stop transfers altogether, something that does not occur in any other points system that I am aware of.

Do you mean language preventing people from renting points that have been transferred? If so, I agree with you and I also want to make it clear again that that is not the issue for me. I want them to enforce that transfers keep the original use year and home resort of the points being transferred in. That I think is enforceable and reasonable.

 

[jim and meesie]

I really don't think you understand the circumstances I am talking about, or perhaps you are one of the owners who abuses the system. I'm talking about the rule that transferred points maintain their home resort and use year. I think it is very problematic that you have commercial renters out there who are able to take advantage of a system that allows them to get points transferred to their account that are expiring (e.g., they have an April use year at BCV, and get points transferred in mid-May from a June use year at HH for example) for a rock bottom price, convert them to their own home resort and use year (or in some cases their choice of home resort or use year) thereby having the points change both use years and resorts (and increasing the value of the points in the process) and rent them out for an increase of $5 or more per point in a profit making endeavor. I want to make this clear that this is not a situation that is in my imagination. It is very real and has, indeed, happened with points of mine. The system is the problem in this case. If I transferred my points and they retained my home resort and use year, I agree that it is really none of my business what is done with the points after that (except as an owner in general who expects compliance with the prohibiition on commercial renting which is spelled out in our documents and includes the example of ongoing and repeated and recurring patterns of heavy rental activity). Transfers, as implemented, have created a relatively risk free profit making opportunity that, in my opinion, should be closed off.

I really am interested in buying DVC and I have the financial ability to do so but I am truly overwhelmed about the whole process of making reservations, borrowing points, banking points, use year, home resort. Reading this post (and I have been reading posts on the DIS religously to further educate myself) just makes me more nervous that there is something serious about this transaction that I may not fully understand. Fortunately I understand the renting process way better. Far more simple....... In the business world I handle transactions with 100s of pages of legal terminology involving significantly more of my money which are far easier to understand!

I Know that it's a significant financial and legal transaction but the education process particular to DVC seems pretty extensive for me to feel comfortable.

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

If transfers were correctly managed according to the rules, many of the issues with respect to renting of points would be reduced (in particular, transfers with the intention of renting the received points).

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Great point Doctor P.

A couple of years ago I discovered this problem when I had points transferred into my account and they became something other than what I thought they were. All of a sudden I was able to put two and two together with what I was seeing on the rent/trade board. While transfer of points is nice for owners, ending it wouldn't bother me at all and I would be very surprised if DVC kept it, especially as they get so large and this issue gets bigger.

HBC

 

[greenban]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Great point Doctor P.

A couple of years ago I discovered this problem when I had points transferred into my account and they became something other than what I thought they were. All of a sudden I was able to put two and two together with what I was seeing on the rent/trade board. While transfer of points is nice for owners, ending it wouldn't bother me at all and I would be very surprised if DVC kept it, especially as they get so large and this issue gets bigger.

HBC

I also agree with HBC and Dr.P, despite using the current transfer 'flaw' to my advantage over the last several years. (I learned about the 'flaw' here on the DIS BTW).

However, The DVC has made it easier than ever to transfer, without fixing the flaw. It usedto be one transfer, in one direction per master contract, now it is unlimited transfers in one direction (per UY) per master contract. This IMHO has increased transfers.

I would like to keep the multiple transfer option, but have the points reatin their UY and resort status (which on my take of the POS. is what should be happenning). I believe it is a matter of time, until Disney does this (look we can finally see our accounts online ) and then I expect to see SSR points renting for $8.00 PLEASE, not a knock on SSR, my take on supply vs. demand for SSR points, which would stay SSR points whan transfered.

SSR is great, really! Heck I own there too!

-Tony

 

[jarestel]

I wish these were isolated, but I am afraid from what I have heard they aren't. So NO, these are NOT fanatics who think Disney should live up to the agreement. These people think they entitled to abuse CMs and other guests..... This is above and beyond expecting Disney to live up to thier end of the deal.

If your point is that there are jerks who vacation at WDW, and DVC, then we're in agreement. I just don't think the vast majority of DVC'ers and AP holders fall into this category. Isolated instances - I disagree with your assertion that these are not isolated happenings - make for a wonderful way to perpetuate stereotypes for those who are inclined ( and apparently there are some CMs who are inclined ), but it doesn't in any way depict an accurate representation of most DVC members.

Hey, I was just upholding the honor of us DVC wretches, ya know?

 

[superdiz]

Well, let's see there was the man who was PHYSICALLY threatening a CM because the specific villa he wanted at OKW was not given to him. He wanted the current occupants ejected... The statement "I PAID $25,000 and I deserve that VILLA" was repeated SEVERAL times. (Like no one else in the resort paid any money, we were just freeloaders?) .... (The police were called when he told the CM and the manager that he planned to follow them out of the resort and attack them....and the IDIOT shut up before he got to go to jail However, I later heard he did not get ANY room at OKW he was asked to leave and his wife drug him out!)

There was the AP holder at AK last Saturday night BERATING a clerk at the the pin cart becasue the clerk did not have the AP pin for EE (which was never sold there and if you have a concern over avaialbity, this child was not the responsible party)

I saw an AP holder at the front desk the day a hurricane closed the parks SCREAMING at the CM because she could not get a lunch reservation in the hotel. The resturants were full.. "I have an AP and for all the money I spend here some of these other folks can wait!"

I saw a DVC member (at least someone with a tote) attempting to use the FP line, because "since I own DVC I should'nt have to stand in that standby line, that's for "regular" folks"

I wish these were isolated, but I am afraid from what I have heard they aren't. So NO, these are NOT fanatics who think Disney should live up to the agreement. These people think they entitled to abuse CMs and other guests..... This is above and beyond expecting Disney to live up to thier end of the deal.

I've seen this too. It's truly disgusting what people think they are entitled to. So you own DVC, doesn't make you the Queen of Sheba. Get over yourselves! Makes me sick. And we have quite the laugh at your expense when you're throwing a tantrum worthy of a two year old. How embarrassing!!

**And I know this doesn't apply to all DVC and AP Holders - but to those it does apply to, you know who YOU are! **

 

[WDWLVR]

I've seen this too. It's truly disgusting what people think they are entitled to. So you own DVC, doesn't make you the Queen of Sheba. Get over yourselves! Makes me sick. And we have quite the laugh at your expense when you're throwing a tantrum worthy of a two year old. How embarrassing!!

**And I know this doesn't apply to all DVC and AP Holders - but to those it does apply to, you know who YOU are! **

I totally agree. There are always people who try to beat the system. Be it AP holders, DVCers, eBayers - whatever. The few give others a bad name. They may think they are being clever and make be laughing on the way to the bank, but Karma will catch up to them some day. So to those who feel that they have an entitlement and to those who try to cheat the system. You'll get yours some day.

As for me - I happily use my DVC points. No need to rent them out. I have given them to family as gifts because that is why we bought some of the points when and where we did.





pdfg

 

[psu4glory]

i'm a little confused.....are we still in America?

i only ask b/c i was under the impression that here - in America....a free capitalistic society - that we were all free to do with our property what we want - within legal boundaries, of course! i mean, with respect...if i wish to rent my points for $12, $10, or $7, what is it to anyone else? they're mine, right?

obviously, everyone is entitled to their opinion. if you think those who rent for less than $xx are crazy, fine....but how are the folks who do so doing any of us a "disservice" by renting cheaper than you think they should? do you HONESTLY think that the few people renting below the "accepted threshold" are skewing the market THAT much? are there scores of DVC owners trying to rent for $10/pt now that simply can't do it b/c every renter in the civilized world is holding out for a rock-bottom deal?? i may be wrong - but i would find this very hard to believe.

and what i find VERY interesting - if not funny - are the posts like "well...i am not looking to rent my points, but....." or "i've never rented any of my points out before, but....", then proceed to tell us about all of the "problems" they're seeing on the Rent/Trade board. really??? you DO know that you don't HAVE to go and read the posts on the Rent/Trade board, don't you? if you don't like what's going on in the rental world, then maybe you should stop peeking behind the curtain.

 

[Stuart D]

This whole thread has scared the life out of me.

I've just bought my DVC at OKW. I'm based in the UK and I'm thrilled to bits to finally have some property abroad that will ensure our family will always have a great holiday and I was damned proud of myself for getting our family to that status in our lives.

I'm new to all this, but buying a DVC wasn't a decision we took lightly. We "studied" the subject intensively for two and a half years and we pestered the hell out of Disney for more and better information. Through the help of UK based forums I understood there was a rental market and that this website was the place to come if you needed to do that. So here I am with 10 spare points that we cannot possibly use before the end of our use year. We are going to lose them and I was actually on this website tonight to see what my options might be and then I read this rather venemous and poisonous thread that savages new people to DVC's to rentee's and to rentors.

Look I understand the tensions brought to bear during a business transaction but surely if someone posts looking to rent points at $7.50 and someone else rents them at that price no-one has been ripped off. The figure offered was clearly stated and someone obviously thought it was sufficient for whatever reason. There is no need whatsoever to slate a person for accepting that offer.

Anway I'll contact MS tomorrow and see if there is perhaps a hotel in the UK that I can stay one night for points + cash. You guys have put me off the whole rental market forever.

 

[Dean]

Do you mean language preventing people from renting points that have been transferred? If so, I agree with you and I also want to make it clear again that that is not the issue for me. I want them to enforce that transfers keep the original use year and home resort of the points being transferred in. That I think is enforceable and reasonable.

I agree that I'd prefer DVC be able to track this better but knowing how the system works and the way of computers, I doubt they ever will. I'd think they'd have to create a separate "contract" for each use year and home resort transferred in that did not match exactly that of the contracts already in place. Thus I don't expect they will ever be able to "enforce" this issue. There's nothing they could do with members renting out transferred points other than to track the transferred points better but only if they did everyone's, not just those renting. And likewise, I don't see them being able to legally prevent pay for transfers, even though the POS says this. Again, the only real option would be to stop transfers, which they might be able to do, I'll have to think about that one for a while.

 

[Dean]

I really am interested in buying DVC and I have the financial ability to do so but I am truly overwhelmed about the whole process of making reservations, borrowing points, banking points, use year, home resort. Reading this post (and I have been reading posts on the DIS religously to further educate myself) just makes me more nervous that there is something serious about this transaction that I may not fully understand. Fortunately I understand the renting process way better. Far more simple....... In the business world I handle transactions with 100s of pages of legal terminology involving significantly more of my money which are far easier to understand!

I Know that it's a significant financial and legal transaction but the education process particular to DVC seems pretty extensive for me to feel comfortable.

It's actually pretty simple. Think of it like you would an allowance you get once a year. You can borrow for up to one year and bank it for up to one year. Then you use those "dollars" to reserve rooms at DVC or other exchange options.

This whole thread has scared the life out of me.

I've just bought my DVC at OKW. I'm based in the UK and I'm thrilled to bits to finally have some property abroad that will ensure our family will always have a great holiday and I was damned proud of myself for getting our family to that status in our lives.

I'm new to all this, but buying a DVC wasn't a decision we took lightly. We "studied" the subject intensively for two and a half years and we pestered the hell out of Disney for more and better information. Through the help of UK based forums I understood there was a rental market and that this website was the place to come if you needed to do that. So here I am with 10 spare points that we cannot possibly use before the end of our use year. We are going to lose them and I was actually on this website tonight to see what my options might be and then I read this rather venemous and poisonous thread that savages new people to DVC's to rentee's and to rentors.

Look I understand the tensions brought to bear during a business transaction but surely if someone posts looking to rent points at $7.50 and someone else rents them at that price no-one has been ripped off. The figure offered was clearly stated and someone obviously thought it was sufficient for whatever reason. There is no need whatsoever to slate a person for accepting that offer.

Anway I'll contact MS tomorrow and see if there is perhaps a hotel in the UK that I can stay one night for points + cash. You guys have put me off the whole rental market forever.

NO reason to, it's much safer than using points for DCL and the like.