What should Disney do about a Future DVC Availability Problem?

[we"reofftoneverland]

I guess I just don’t see this happening. If you look ahead 11 months and seven months at reservations, they look pretty normal. I think things will even out. There are a lot of people (Like us) who have already borrowed and used 2020 and 2021 points. It seems like people are panicking about something that isn’t even an issue.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

VGC points (and AUL) are usable at WDW, HHI and VB right now, and there's plenty of 7-month availability. I don't know how far the legal obligation goes around home resort use and availability, particularly as at AUL they basically cannot open.

Looking at CA guidelines, VGC can open, as can GC. But as I read the Anaheim updates, there is basically nothing to do except maybe visit Downtown Disney. Even the city golf courses are still shut down. Anaheim restaurants are not open for inside dining, only carry out, and maybe some patio (it's fuzzy based on what I read; it may be they will be allowed low-permit patio expansion when that tier is reached).

Anaheim is technically in Tier 1 and may be permitted to move to Tier 2 on September 8.

The theme park is still subject to not reopening until the state approves guidelines and Anaheim hits a much later Tier, which by my math the earliest they can get there is almost Halloween (there is a timeline to progress between tiers).

 

[Eldon32]

I guess I just don’t see this happening. If you look ahead 11 months and seven months at reservations, they look pretty normal. I think things will even out. There are a lot of people (Like us) who have already borrowed and used 2020 and 2021 points. It seems like people are panicking about something that isn’t even an issue.

I'm not sure how many of these rooms are empty - if you look at any of the rental sites they have discounted reservations out the nose. I assume most of these are points that could not be banked, but I am sure there are some reservations for studios (traditionally hard to get) that will be canceled 31 days before hand and the points banked.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm not sure how many of these rooms are empty - if you look at any of the rental sites they have discounted reservations out the nose. I assume most of these are points that could not be banked, but I am sure there are some reservations for studios (traditionally hard to get) that will be canceled 31 days before hand and the points banked.

From what I have read, most of those confirmed rentals are not owners, but renters who do not want to go and since it’s non refundable, if they do not, they get nothing,

The brokers, with an owners permission, are listing them in hopes of helping the renter by getting someone else to take it,

Any of those will not be canceled and put more points in the system because the owner only gets paid if thr reservation stays intact.

 

[sethschroeder]

Bank and book, breakage occurs even in best of years in the long run if you want to use your points you will be able to you might just have to bank them for a few years instead of using all the excess next year.

 

[SL6827]

Fair point. Question is what it would cost to run the hotel to support just 50 timeshare villas.

That is what I believe the reason is. But it is not illegal to do such? To not open because it will make a dent in the pocketbook to the company?

 

[Ronaldo17]

From what I have read, most of those confirmed rentals are not owners, but renters who do not want to go and since it’s non refundable, if they do not, they get nothing,

The brokers, with an owners permission, are listing them in hopes of helping the renter by getting someone else to take it,

Any of those will not be canceled and put more points in the system because the owner only gets paid if thr reservation stays intact.

Totally agree

 

[CarolMN]

That is what I believe the reason is. But it is not illegal to do such? To not open because it will make a dent in the pocketbook to the company?

Would you feel the same way if you owned there and the "dent" was in your pocketbook? If only the villas are open, why would the Company pay more than the minimum it is paying now to keep it maintained during the closure?

 

[CastAStone]

If Disney wants to step in and resolve a glut in points the most obvious remedy would be to disallow banking for 12 months. The fairest way to do it would be to pick a future UY, say 2022, and declare its points unbankable. Millions of points would expire unused but people would have had the opportunity to use them, and the glut would be solved.

Right now Disney is actively making the problem worse by keeping a borrowing limit during a period where they can't fill the resorts to begin with.

But I agree with @drusba that until we see evidence of a problem at the booking windows, Disney probably won't do anything.

 

[New Mouse]

If Disney wants to step in and resolve a glut in points the most obvious remedy would be to disallow banking for 12 months. The fairest way to do it would be to pick a future UY, say 2022, and declare its points unbankable. Millions of points would expire unused but people would have had the opportunity to use them, and the glut would be solved.

Right now Disney is actively making the problem worse by keeping a borrowing limit during a period where they can't fill the resorts to begin with.

But I agree with @drusba that until we see evidence of a problem at the booking windows, Disney probably won't do anything.

Agreed, which is really odd. People should be able to bank 2 years worth of points right now for specific use from x month to y month. The steps disney has taken throught this pandemic have been baffling at a minimum.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

But I agree with @drusba that until we see evidence of a problem at the booking windows, Disney probably won't do anything.

I don't think they will do anything then. Right now, there is a ton of availability and people are not booking.

Disney really isn't obligated to do much to start with, but if there is a period where people are not using the points, that is a key driver of the problem and also not anything they legally have to atone for later. Vacancy exists for points use.

 

[CarolMN]

But I agree with @drusba that until we see evidence of a problem at the booking windows, Disney probably won't do anything.

Nor should they - unless the problem manifests at the 11 month window. Obviously, JMHO. YMMV.

 

[firebringer]

I think they are going to sit on things until everything is back to "normal". At that point they will look at how many extra points are in the system. They can always limit banking and borrowing for a year or two and it will have to straighten itself out. There's almost know situation that doesn't end up with a lot of members being screwed out of ponts. (The other option is Disney losing money and they aren't going to do that.) As others have said, so far extended booking for the winter spring and summer don't look much different, in fact if anything they are slighter lighter. (I've never seen so much availability during President's week / Princess half marathon week at this point.) As other wise folks on this thread have said, get your points booked at 11 months.

 

[Sandisw]

I don't think they will do anything then. Right now, there is a ton of availability and people are not booking.

Disney really isn't obligated to do much to start with, but if there is a period where people are not using the points, that is a key driver of the problem and also not anything they legally have to atone for later. Vacancy exists for points use.

Exactly. The legal obligation has been met for most resorts, They are open so owners can use up points, The fact that they can’t or won’t isn’t really something that has be to considered,

So, for WDW plus HH and VB, it was 3 months of lost inventory and those points needing to be dealt with. And they have done it with late banking, extending expired 2018 until November, and the 50% borrowing limit.

Now, VGC and AUL pose a different problem, but for now, they are allowing owners there access to all other inventory at 7 months.

 

[SL6827]

Would you feel the same way if you owned there and the "dent" was in your pocketbook? If only the villas are open, why would the Company pay more than the minimum it is paying now to keep it maintained during the closure?

But is it legal for them to do this? That is what I am wondering. Of course they are looking out for their bottom line, but could legal recourse be brought against them? If the owners have no issue that would be fine, but do some have an issue?

 

[starry_solo]

But is it legal for them to do this? That is what I am wondering. Of course they are looking out for their bottom line, but could legal recourse be brought against them? If the owners have no issue that would be fine, but do some have an issue?

why wouldn’t it be legal? Unless the DVC owners want to pay for the cost of having the hotel open without guests? It’s what I mentioned in another post...would VGC owners be willing to access DTD through the regular entrance near DLH instead of cutting through GCH? No pools either (there isn’t a specific DVC pool at VGC),

I doubt it, you’d get people hollering about inconvenience

 

[SL6827]

why wouldn’t it be legal? Unless the DVC owners want to pay for the cost of having the hotel open without guests? It’s what I mentioned in another post...would VGC owners be willing to access DTD through the regular entrance near DLH instead of cutting through GCH? No pools either (there isn’t a specific DVC pool at VGC),

I doubt it, you’d get people hollering about inconvenience

I was thinking they were obligated to open it up if such was possible but maybe not? Could they at some point convert more of the hotel rooms into DVC rooms there or are they not allowed to do such?

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Could they at some point convert more of the hotel rooms into DVC rooms there or are they not allowed to do such?

They would need City of Anaheim approval, and it would likely be a second condo association. It would be a matter of years, not weeks to do this.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Fair point. Question is what it would cost to run the hotel to support just 50 timeshare villas.

They probably could get by with no food service since DTD is open - at least as long as they guaranteed that those staying at VGC would be allowed entry. Wouldn't take much for front desk and housekeeping could be staffed just for those rooms. Overall it probably could be done without too much extra cost as it would be greatly downsized. And there should have been some savings from being closed for 5 months to cover some additional costs.

 

[drusba]

But is it legal for them to do this? That is what I am wondering. Of course they are looking out for their bottom line, but could legal recourse be brought against them? If the owners have no issue that would be fine, but do some have an issue?

Most likely legal. Someone could try to sue to require DVC to reopen VGC, but there would be a high risk that the plaintiff could end up spending a lot of money on lawyers and coming away with nothing.

"Acts of God" causing damage to the VGC rooms, or raising a health risk if you were to keep the resort or rooms open, is an accepted legal defense that excuses a company like Disney from performing under contracts (including POS's) that would otherwise require VGC to be open). That defense often has a lot of leeway in it, in that it may even be possible, in relation to this pandemic, for Disney to keep VGC closed until the Pandemic is declared over without Disney being deemed in breach of the POS that may require it to provide rooms to members. Moreover, just because other timeshares have opened does not mean Disney must open. Companies in these situations will do what they can to get things open even if there is still a risk as long as it becomes somewhat reasonable to open, but that fact does not require Disney to reopen VGC now. Moreover in considering whether it is reasonable to reopen, Disney can consider the nature of this timeshare, and the fact that the pools, restaurants and parks are not open, as a basis for continuing to maintain the closure.