What should be cut first?

[DawnCt1]

Until our current governor took office our state had a HUGE surplus. In the past 4 years he has refused to raise taxes and has CAUSED the mess we are in. No, there is no money tree but there ARE reasonable ways to deal with a state budget and expecting zero tax increases and forcing a state into mediocrity is NOT the way to accomplish this. Most people in our state live here for the high standard of living and realize with that, you pay high taxes. I don't begrudge a DIME of tax we pay, and we pay plenty, because what we get in return is worth every penny.



.

Most states had HUGE surpluses until the economy tanked. Failure to raise taxes did not cause your predicament, anymore than it caused the predicament we face in Connecticut, and in most other states. Runaway spending that annually exceeded the rate of inflation by far, because certain programs are "nice to have" and are "compassionate", and public servants work "hard" and "deserve to be justly compensated. All that sounds wonderful, and in a good economy, everyone can have most of what they want. Unfortunately, it is the private sector that pays these bills, generates the jobs, and the money, and that segment of the economy now has an effective unemployment rate of about 17%, while the public sector's unemployment is 3.5%. So vote for someone who will raise taxes in your state. In fact, tax anyone's earnings over $500K at a tax rate of 100% and you might get them the first year, but after that, they are gone, along with the jobs. Atlas will shrug.

 

[cats mom]

Ok, an accountant is only busy from January to April 15 so they get paid a high salary to work 3 1/2 months/year, same with the comptroller. The city manager is only busy during budget times, give me a break, a department store scheduler-like they have to do anything but sit around and put numbers in a computer, editor--they only have a couple days of work/year when their deadlines are coming, production manager--so they sit around and watch the guys on the line do all the work--retail store manager--what could possibly be so important in a store that can't wait until tomorrow?

The only one on that list that has a legitimate excuse is the doctor--but then again they make $350K+/year too.

Taking a phone call during dinner is NOT the same as correcting 165 essays.

Excuuuse me.
I'm not going to get into a battle with you regarding which jobs may or may not be important enough for the people doing them to take work home. A PP asked a question, I answered. The point was that people in professions other than teaching take work home... whether you value what they do or not.

And for the record, one of the phone calls in my example above turned into the person leaving dinner and spending all night Friday, all day Saturday, and most of Sunday at work. Since it wasn't the pediatrician, and he wasn't a teacher grading essays, I'm sure you'll think he was foolish for doing so. But if he hadn't, he wouldn't be employed now. It was expected, as part of being in a salaried position. So save your a phone call does not equate to correcting 165 essays nonsense.

 

[golfgal]

Yes, I read the rest of your post. I thought your statement about the work ethic of southern people was rude and unnecessary unless you have witnessed it firsthand. It was kind of ironic considering what you said in your second paragraph.

If I could run for the school board, I would. Unfortunately, it's a conflict of interest.

Sorry, but the work ethic in the south is well known and not for the good. I think the real test would be for you to come north and see the work ethic around here and you would understand what I am saying. When schools in Texas and other southern states do phone interviews and hire over the phone students graduating from MN schools, that speaks volumes.

They do? The average primary care physician makes far less than that and they work far more than 40 hours per week. A 60 to 80 hour work week for most physician is not unusual. http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm Also consider that most are close to 30 before they actually begin working....and paying off those massive student loans that got them to their profession in the first place.

A PEDITRICIAN around here sure does.

Most states had HUGE surpluses until the economy tanked. Failure to raise taxes did not cause your predicament, anymore than it caused the predicament we face in Connecticut, and in most other states. Runaway spending that annually exceeded the rate of inflation by far, because certain programs are "nice to have" and are "compassionate", and public servants work "hard" and "deserve to be justly compensated. All that sounds wonderful, and in a good economy, everyone can have most of what they want. Unfortunately, it is the private sector that pays these bills, generates the jobs, and the money, and that segment of the economy now has an effective unemployment rate of about 17%, while the public sector's unemployment is 3.5%. So vote for someone who will raise taxes in your state. In fact, tax anyone's earnings over $500K at a tax rate of 100% and you might get them the first year, but after that, they are gone, along with the jobs. Atlas will shrug.

Our state was having issues before the economy tanked. Our governor has admitted, stated publicly that our state doesn't need the high standards it has and what is wrong with being average. Keep in mind this is the same person that will be making a push for the top job in the next go round so watch out. Failure to raise taxes resulted in having to use up our surplus before the economy tanked and had those funds been available the past year and a half our state would have been in pretty good shape--which is WHY you have a surplus in the first place. All in all we still are FAR below the rest of the country with an unemployment rate of about 8%. I didn't vote for him in the first place and will GLADLY vote for someone else when the time comes.

 

[golfgal]

In order to defend the postion that teachers should be exempt from what is expected of other professionals you managed to trivialize no less than 7 professions in one post. Amazing and scarey at the same time.

dsny1mom

Which is exactly my point--how many posts on this board are there about cutting costs for accounting firms or legal firms? Where on the boards are the posts about the high costs for getting your taxes done or your business audited and the outrage at that. Where are they asking for accountants to take 20+% pay cuts (after years of only getting 1% increases, maybe, in the first place) and add 15 hours of unpaid time to their already full week?

Excuuuse me.
I'm not going to get into a battle with you regarding which jobs may or may not be important enough for the people doing them to take work home. A PP asked a question, I answered. The point was that people in professions other than teaching take work home... whether you value what they do or not.

And for the record, one of the phone calls in my example above turned into the person leaving dinner and spending all night Friday, all day Saturday, and most of Sunday at work. Since it wasn't the pediatrician, and he wasn't a teacher grading essays, I'm sure you'll think he was foolish for doing so. But if he hadn't, he wouldn't be employed now. It was expected, as part of being in a salaried position. So save your a phone call does not equate to correcting 165 essays nonsense.

 

[PlutoPony]

The only saving grace will be that the families who can afford to do so will inevitably pull their kids out of public schools and put them in private schools which will alleviate the strain on resources. But people will be slow to act so things will get worse before they get better and we find a new equilibrium.

I can tell you that the exact opposite has occurred around here, and this is area is in better shape economically than most other areas in the country right now. There's been a FLOOD of students move from private to public schools in the last year or so and it looks like that trend is continuing in school enrollment numbers for next year. There is a twofold reason for the big shift of students from private to public; many many people around here can no longer afford to send their kids to private schools (job loss and pay cuts abound) AND many private schools are closing because they are no longer financially solvent. Friends in other areas of the country tell me the same phenomena is happened in their area so I tend to think movement out of private schools is not isolated to just our area.

More students + lower budget is the end result.

 

[DawnCt1]

A PEDITRICIAN around here sure does.



Our state was having issues before the economy tanked. Our governor has admitted, stated publicly that our state doesn't need the high standards it has and what is wrong with being average. Keep in mind this is the same person that will be making a push for the top job in the next go round so watch out. Failure to raise taxes resulted in having to use up our surplus before the economy tanked and had those funds been available the past year and a half our state would have been in pretty good shape--which is WHY you have a surplus in the first place. All in all we still are FAR below the rest of the country with an unemployment rate of about 8%. I didn't vote for him in the first place and will GLADLY vote for someone else when the time comes.

Job Title Less Experienced
Base Pay Average Experience
Base Pay More Experienced
Base Pay
Pediatrician in MN $75,000 $125,500 $150,000

http://www.ihirephysicians.com/t-Pediatrician-s-Minnesota-salary.html
View Pediatrician Jobs in Minnesota

 

[golfgal]

Job Title Less Experienced
Base Pay Average Experience
Base Pay More Experienced
Base Pay
Pediatrician in MN $75,000 $125,500 $150,000

http://www.ihirephysicians.com/t-Pediatrician-s-Minnesota-salary.html
View Pediatrician Jobs in Minnesota

Well, my pediatrician clients will be SHOCKED to learn they got a pay cut all of the sudden because someone from CT told them the internet said they make 75K . NURSES make more then 75K in MN. Heck, ultrasound techs with a 2 year certification START at 68K here.

 

[luvsJack]

Fine, if these things are really happening in your district, then yes, they should be dealt with. I have to say, the work ethic in the south is not exactly the best so what can the district to about that? The wall painting example would never fly here-they would be fired on the spot.

That was uncalled for. The work ethic in the south is no different than it is in the rest of the country. The people in this area know what its like to work and to work hard for every dime earned.



As for the maintenance men painting the wall, on any given day someone could think that maintenance on our campus never finish anything. But, we don't see the calls they get to an emergency in another building or to come see what wrong with the ac/heater or a light, or to come fix some piece of equipment in a classroom. Most of the time they are actually much busier than people give them credit for.

The fact of the matter is, there is no blanket answer for all school systems. Each district is going to have certain needs and expenses that others do not have and each school within a district is going have different needs.

Our superintendent does have a district vehicle. She travels daily from one end of the county to the other, so the district vehicle is the cheapest route. For other districts this may not be true.

Our booster clubs already pay 98% of the cost for sports. But, we have too many low income students for a pay to play plan. This may be a good plan for another district, just not for us.

To solve the teacher meeting problems, our district dismisses 2 hours early one day a week. All staff development, teacher training and meetings are done on that day. This works for us, but may not work in another district.


Teachers are some of the lowest paid professionals and yet everyone thinks that they should be expected to work even longer hours and not be compensated. Many teachers spend the summers going to classes, attending training seminars, preparing their classroom for the next year, etc. They are not compensated for this. Many teachers attend meeting after school hours, take home huge amounts of papers to grade and take home lesson plans or stay after hours to complete them; again they are not compensated for this. Do other professions take work home? of course. That doesn't take away from the fact that teachers are not paid enough as it is and certainly are not paid enough to have hours extended in any way.

The cutting can be done from the school offices. Most schools have two or three secretaries, an attendance officer, a money person (not sure of that exact title but our school has one person that handles all the incoming/outgoing money just for our school), etc. etc. These jobs could be combined and done by fewer people. A lot of these are hourly paid. The employees that are kept could be given an extended day. They would then be compensated for the extra work but it would still be cheaper than the current number of employees.

But the best answer for all school systems is that cuts should be made from anywhere and everywhere in the state government to prevent as many cuts as possible from education. Education is always the first thing cut. The cuts need to come from elsewhere. There is nothing to justify the high salary of government officials not being cut or no cuts in other government agencies and anything being reduced in the education of our children.

 

[DawnCt1]

Well, my pediatrician clients will be SHOCKED to learn they got a pay cut all of the sudden because someone from CT told them the internet said they make 75K . NURSES make more then 75K in MN. Heck, ultrasound techs with a 2 year certification START at 68K here.

You can look up the average salaries for any state. There are many web sites that provide that. Again, those who deliver primary care are among the lowest in the medical profession and work the hardest. Most nurses and ultrasound technicians do not put in 80 hour weeks. If your pediatrician makes $350K, he is earning it. We are in a time where RNs are paid quite well, but I do not know too many, unless they are in administration, who are making $75K working 40 hours per week. Ultrasound techs are earning more money because there is a demand and a shortage of training programs. When the market gets saturated, their incomes will reflect that.

 

[dsny1mom]

Then people need to stop bringing up how little teachers work for what they get paid. Not all attorneys or CPA's bring home work and many barely work 40 hours/week. Does that make them bad CPA's or attorneys?

I haven't seen anyone say how little teachers work for what they are paid. What I see being stated is that many other professionals do work outside of their scheduled hours and for teachers to feel they should be exempt from doing so is unrealistic in this day and age.

However there are sweeping statements being made that ***many*** CPAs and attorneys barely work 40 hours per week.

We happen to have friends that are attorneys, a CPA and a teacher. The one that works the least hours in a week and year isn't the CPA or the attorneys. The one that is a teacher does have the habit of complaining about how horrible it is that she earns so little, as she sits by her pool all summer, while the CPA and attorneys are hard at work.

dsny1mom

 

[HsvTeacher]

Sorry, but the work ethic in the south is well known and not for the good. I think the real test would be for you to come north and see the work ethic around here and you would understand what I am saying. When schools in Texas and other southern states do phone interviews and hire over the phone students graduating from MN schools, that speaks volumes.

Do you have any examples, or is that just another assumption?

I am married to a man who lived in the north (Connecticut) until he was 29 years old, and we are there at least one time every year visiting family who still live there. I also have relatives in Minnesota. Now, would I dare make a blanket assumption about the work ethic of an entire area of people? No way!

You never answered my previous question: How many years did you live and/or work in the south before you made such an asinine assumption?

As for hiring people from Minnesota, I can say that I have never known anyone who was hired from there much less actively sought out for employment. We have too many well-qualified teachers here who need work to look out-of-state for employees.

 

[golfgal]

You can look up the average salaries for any state. There are many web sites that provide that. Again, those who deliver primary care are among the lowest in the medical profession and work the hardest. Most nurses and ultrasound technicians do not put in 80 hour weeks. If your pediatrician makes $350K, he is earning it. We are in a time where RNs are paid quite well, but I do not know too many, unless they are in administration, who are making $75K working 40 hours per week. Ultrasound techs are earning more money because there is a demand and a shortage of training programs. When the market gets saturated, their incomes will reflect that.

It isn't "my pediatrician". I have several clients that are pediatricians, among other specialties, so I see their pay stubs so I know what they make. I realize they don't work 40 hours/week. Nurses fresh out of college here start in the $50-60K range and you are right, they don't work 40 hours, most work about 36 for that. Nurses are very well paid here. A nurse with about 10 years of experience can expect to make over 100K--hospital nursing that is, administration, more than that-my cousin was director of nursing for one hospital's labor and delivery unit and was making $175K (she has a masters degree though).

I haven't seen anyone say how little teachers work for what they are paid. What I see being stated is that many other professionals do work outside of their scheduled hours and for teachers to feel they should be exempt from doing so is unrealistic in this day and age.

However there are sweeping statements being made that ***many*** CPAs and attorneys barely work 40 hours per week.

We happen to have friends that are attorneys, a CPA and a teacher. The one that works the least hours in a week and year isn't the CPA or the attorneys. The one that is a teacher does have the habit of complaining about how horrible it is that she earns so little, as she sits by her pool all summer, while the CPA and attorneys are hard at work.

dsny1mom

Obviously you haven't read any of the threads about teachers on this board before or you would know exactly what I was saying.

 

[DawnCt1]

That was uncalled for. The work ethic in the south is no different than it is in the rest of the country. The people in this area know what its like to work and to work hard for every dime earned.

The work ethic is so "terrible" in the south, that Pratt and Whitney is closing a plant in Connecticut and moving yet MORE work to Georgia. That's Georgia in the USA, btw. AG Blumenthal will attempt to sue P & W but he will lose, after he spends more of our taxpayer money.

 

[dsny1mom]

Which is exactly my point--how many posts on this board are there about cutting costs for accounting firms or legal firms? Where on the boards are the posts about the high costs for getting your taxes done or your business audited and the outrage at that. Where are they asking for accountants to take 20+% pay cuts (after years of only getting 1% increases, maybe, in the first place) and add 15 hours of unpaid time to their already full week?

I would guess if people were irked about those professions, their costs and how their tax dollars were supporting those professions there would be threads about them, no? Maybe you could start one if those things annoy you.

As for pay cuts...... they are everywhere. In one national company, I know of, everyone earning more than X amount last year had to take a 5%-25% cut in pay to keep their job, and this year all salaries are frozen. Not to mention there were postions eliminated or cut to part time in that company and those left are expected to pick up the slack at their reduced rate of pay. So, teachers shouldn't have similar issues to deal with, because????

dsny1mom

 

[DawnCt1]

It isn't "my pediatrician". I have several clients that are pediatricians, among other specialties, so I see their pay stubs so I know what they make. I realize they don't work 40 hours/week. Nurses fresh out of college here start in the $50-60K range and you are right, they don't work 40 hours, most work about 36 for that. Nurses are very well paid here. A nurse with about 10 years of experience can expect to make over 100K--hospital nursing that is, administration, more than that-my cousin was director of nursing for one hospital's labor and delivery unit and was making $175K (she has a masters degree though).



.

Well you must have a huge nursing shortage in MN because many new nursing grads in Ct. cannot get jobs right now and are applying out of state. Many hospitals are not hiring new grads because, due to the economy, nurses that previously stayed home are now returning to the work force.

 

[golfgal]

I would guess if people were irked about those professions, their costs and how their tax dollars were supporting those professions there would be threads about them, no? Maybe you could start one if those things annoy you.

As for pay cuts...... they are everywhere. In one national company, I know of, everyone earning more than X amount last year had to take a 5%-25% cut in pay to keep their job, and this year all salaries are frozen. Not to mention there were postions eliminated or cut to part time in that company and those left are expected to pick up the slack at their reduced rate of pay. So, teachers shouldn't have similar issues to deal with, because????

dsny1mom

Um, teachers have ALWAYS had to take pay cuts and pick up extra slack even in good times. Teacher raises don't even keep up with cost of living increases most of the time. Our teachers last contract they got a WHOPPING 1 % raise (before the market tanked).

 

[dsny1mom]

It isn't "my pediatrician". I have several clients that are pediatricians, among other specialties, so I see their pay stubs so I know what they make. I realize they don't work 40 hours/week. Nurses fresh out of college here start in the $50-60K range and you are right, they don't work 40 hours, most work about 36 for that. Nurses are very well paid here. A nurse with about 10 years of experience can expect to make over 100K--hospital nursing that is, administration, more than that-my cousin was director of nursing for one hospital's labor and delivery unit and was making $175K (she has a masters degree though).



Obviously you haven't read any of the threads about teachers on this board before or you would know exactly what I was saying.

I have not read the older threads about teachers.

However I do feel it is appropriate to deal with what is being said in the thread one is responding to rather than drag in things said by others that may not even be a part of the current conversation.

dsny1mom

 

[golfgal]

Well you must have a huge nursing shortage in MN because many new nursing grads in Ct. cannot get jobs right now and are applying out of state. Many hospitals are not hiring new grads because, due to the economy, nurses that previously stayed home are now returning to the work force.

No, not really. Hospitals are hiring to replace but not increasing staff. There are fewer job opportunities out there then in previous years. Nurses have always been well paid in our state. My mom was a nurse and before she went on disability was making 60K-back in 1990. She had 25 years of experience and worked ICU but no masters degree and a 2 year RN degree.

 

[dsny1mom]

Well you must have a huge nursing shortage in MN because many new nursing grads in Ct. cannot get jobs right now and are applying out of state. Many hospitals are not hiring new grads because, due to the economy, nurses that previously stayed home are now returning to the work force.

Same thing going on here. A good freind's daughter has been a nurse for 3 years and her hours were just cut to 20 per week. She is doing in home private nursing to be able to pay her bills.

I'll let her mother know MN is still hiring at the wage that is paid here. If she can take the bitter temps in MN she'd probably enjoy living there and not having to pay sales tax!

dsny1mom

 

[golfgal]

Same thing going on here. A good freind's daughter has been a nurse for 3 years and her hours were just cut to 20 per week. She is doing in home private nursing to be able to pay her bills.

I'll let her mother know MN is still hiring at the wage that is paid here. If she can take the bitter temps in MN she'd probably enjoy living there and not having to pay sales tax!

dsny1mom

We have sales tax just not on food and clothing. It's 54 degrees right now so I don't know about the bitter temps. The high 90s and humid in the summer is what gets me.

I just searched one of the larger hospital/clinic systems and across the metro there were 61 postings for LPN/RN positions ranging from casual to 40 hours/week. These did not include the openings that were internal only, just those available to the 'public". There are about 3.5 million people in the metro area so I don't know if this constitutes a shortage or not. There are 3 major health systems, and some smaller ones, so I suspect there are about the same number of postings for the other systems as well. There are over 40 locations for this one system.