What on earth happened to McDonalds?

[goofyernmost]

Wendy's in Clarion PA, the burgers are literally dripping with grease. Open the wrapper and you get a soggy wet grease soaked on the outside bun. I swear they dip it through a bucket of oil before wrapping it up.

Since most of these places are franchises the degree of quality probably varies from place to place.

 

[Skywalker]

Wait, so people CAN leave jobs if they don't like the pay or working conditions? I had no idea.

I might be wrong but I read that post as the person who quit was a teenager still living at home. That is totally different than a person desperate to support a family. Not so easy to leave then. For a lot of people, let's say, average high school educated workers, this is all they can get nowadays. Some job qualifications are so artificially inflated (I have seen postings for an entry level receptionist requiring bilingualism and a bachelor's degree - for minimum wage of course ) that it is hard for someone in the middle to get anything other than a minimum wage McJob. The types of jobs that supported these families in the past, say, good blue collar factory work, in the words of Bruce Springsteen "these jobs are going boys, and they ain't coming back". So sometimes, fast food and retail it is. Anyone with a job should not have to live in poverty. (Not opulence, mind you. But not poverty. Especially if they work for a billion dollar company).

 

[sam_gordon]

I might be wrong but I read that post as the person who quit was a teenager still living at home. That is totally different than a person desperate to support a family. Not so easy to leave then. For a lot of people, let's say, average high school educated workers, this is all they can get nowadays. Some job qualifications are so artificially inflated (I have seen postings for an entry level receptionist requiring bilingualism and a bachelor's degree - for minimum wage of course ) that it is hard for someone in the middle to get anything other than a minimum wage McJob. The types of jobs that supported these families in the past, say, good blue collar factory work, in the words of Bruce Springsteen "these jobs are going boys, and they ain't coming back". So sometimes, fast food and retail it is. Anyone with a job should not have to live in poverty. (Not opulence, mind you. But not poverty. Especially if they work for a billion dollar company).

OK. So, how much should someone working full time make? $15/hour (and there are places hiring entry level higher than that) means $31,200/year. That's above the federal poverty level until you have a family of four. But, I'll take your word that they're not making enough. So I'll ask you, how much is enough? $20/hour? That would be $41,600. $25/hour? That's $52,000. Should the amount an employee makes be dependent on their family arrangement? After all, someone who is the sole breadwinner for a family of 4 needs to make more than the teenager who lives with their parents, right?

Regarding you poo pooing the bilingual receptionist with a bachelor's degree, do you know what their job responsibilities are? At my old company "receptionist" was just one of the many "hats" that person had to wear.

 

[mrodgers]

Since most of these places are franchises the degree of quality probably varies from place to place.

I have 2 in my area. Swung past the one by mom's on my way home from there. I like bacon, but don't need the Baconator. I always got the Son. I get my food and when I get home, I'm confused. It wasn't the Wendy's burger the little old lady looked at and yelled, "Where's the beef?"

Then I stop at the one near me on the way home from work one day. I pull up to the window and see her in there. The manager from the other Wendy's. I get home, unwrap my Son of a Baconator and "Where's the beef?"

And now this summer the Baconator meal went from $9 to $13 so, Wendy's is out for me.

 

[Colleen27]

OK. So, how much should someone working full time make? $15/hour (and there are places hiring entry level higher than that) means $31,200/year. That's above the federal poverty level until you have a family of four. But, I'll take your word that they're not making enough. So I'll ask you, how much is enough? $20/hour? That would be $41,600. $25/hour? That's $52,000. Should the amount an employee makes be dependent on their family arrangement? After all, someone who is the sole breadwinner for a family of 4 needs to make more than the teenager who lives with their parents, right?

Regarding you poo pooing the bilingual receptionist with a bachelor's degree, do you know what their job responsibilities are? At my old company "receptionist" was just one of the many "hats" that person had to wear.

The first question is obviously difficult. I think the way we calculate the poverty level needs to be wholly revamped if we're going to attempt to link wages to it, because right now it is almost completely detached from the two biggest costs for poor families - housing and transportation - and is rooted in an entirely outdated methodology. I think the push for a $15 minimum with a link to inflation so it can't go decades without an increase again would be a solid place to start. That's not likely to be comfortable anywhere, but it is enough to afford a basic level of independent (or semi-independent, in high COL areas) living.

And as far as that receptionist, I think you know the poster you quoted wasn't poo-pooing the job but rather the qualifications being demanded for the wage offered. There are a TON of <$12/hr entry level degree-required jobs in my area too, and they almost always have absurd restrictions (like speaking Spanish in an area with almost no foreign-born population, or 1-3 years of experience despite describing the role as entry level). I suspect it is about reducing the number of applicants, honestly, because job postings for positions that are one step up seem to dispense with a lot of the fluff and nonsense.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

1-3 years of experience despite describing the role as entry level)

That's been a problem in recent years. Describing a job as entry level that truly isn't because either knowledge of certain programs is required in much more length of time than is entry level or it's an obscure program or it's years worth of experience such that that is no longer entry level. It's really easy to find examples of that.

Even for the receptionist if you're requiring a bachelor's degree that should amount to be paying more than minimum wage. Multi-lingual should also be commiserate of an increase in pay. Even if these two qualifications are required they should be bumped up in pay for them. And employers over the recent years have def. altered to their favor what entry level is.

 

[mrodgers]

The first question is obviously difficult. I think the way we calculate the poverty level needs to be wholly revamped if we're going to attempt to link wages to it, because right now it is almost completely detached from the two biggest costs for poor families - housing and transportation - and is rooted in an entirely outdated methodology. I think the push for a $15 minimum with a link to inflation so it can't go decades without an increase again would be a solid place to start. That's not likely to be comfortable anywhere, but it is enough to afford a basic level of independent (or semi-independent, in high COL areas) living.

And as far as that receptionist, I think you know the poster you quoted wasn't poo-pooing the job but rather the qualifications being demanded for the wage offered. There are a TON of <$12/hr entry level degree-required jobs in my area too, and they almost always have absurd restrictions (like speaking Spanish in an area with almost no foreign-born population, or 1-3 years of experience despite describing the role as entry level). I suspect it is about reducing the number of applicants, honestly, because job postings for positions that are one step up seem to dispense with a lot of the fluff and nonsense.

Just to note, if we linked minimum wage to inflation since it's inception, minimum wage today would be about.... $8.

 

[_19disnA]

Since most of these places are franchises the degree of quality probably varies from place to place.

I agree, this has gotten to be a BIG problem at many food franchises. I don't think the corporate company does nearly enough to monitor/regulate the quality or consistency from store to store. I stopped eating at KFC for that reason. They got bought out by some big conglomerate and have totally lost control of the food quality.

I really could care less about the color of the building of style of furniture. If they food is unpredictable from one location to the next, then likely not a place I would care to shop at.

 

[GAN]

Just to note, if we linked minimum wage to inflation since it's inception, minimum wage today would be about.... $8.

That is slightly misleading because of several factors. For instance, if you go back to 1938, the number is $5.25 -I think most would agree that's too low. If you use the year I was born(1963), the minimum wage would stand at $12.25. (Per the US Bureau of Labor Statistics)

 

[mrodgers]

That is slightly misleading because of several factors. For instance, if you go back to 1938, the number is $5.25 -I think most would agree that's too low. If you use the year I was born(1963), the minimum wage would stand at $12.25. (Per the US Bureau of Labor Statistics)

It's misleading to purposely select a year to fit a narrative. If one wants to make the statement that minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation, you have to go back to the first one and compare to make said statement.

And looking at it now, I don't know what happened to inflation calculators. A year ago it would have been around the $8 I said. Looking it up now, I see $4.75 in comparison for 2022.

 

[GAN]

It's misleading to purposely select a year to fit a narrative. If one wants to make the statement that minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation, you have to go back to the first one and compare to make said statement.

And looking at it now, I don't know what happened to inflation calculators. A year ago it would have been around the $8 I said. Looking it up now, I see $4.75 in comparison for 2022.

I did go back ....it started in 1938!

So you're proposing we drop it to $4.25 ....sounds like a plan

Some may have noticed that I mentioned there are some factors that make the 1938 number misleading. I didn't want to get into it but here we go... The issue is that minimum wage hasn't kept up with wage growth or productivity. To help understand the concept you can find info on the link below. I'd provide a more updated version but if you need it you can do your own research....

https://www.epi.org/publication/the-federal-minimum-wage-has-been-eroded-by-decades-of-inaction/

 

[Ms.Minnie]

Some of the comments in this tread lean towards socialism. There are many countries that are socialist or communist and they all seem to be failing. I don't know about you, but I KNOW that I don't want to live in one of those countries.

There are too many variables to say that every company should be paying X as a base pay. Take for example an ice cream stand, do you think that a person working at an ice cream stand should be earning $32.54 per hour to start? This amount is based on the median necessary living wage across the entire US which is $67,690. The state with the lowest annual living wage is Mississippi, with $58,321. The state with the highest living wage is Hawaii, with $136,437. This information was pulled from this below web site. www.businessinsider.com/living-wage-income-to-live-comfortably-in-every-us-st

We have had this discussion many times before on these boards and we never seem to be able to come to an agreement. (Not that we have any real say in the matter other than what we as individuals decide for ourselves.) The idea of working for an ice cream stand or a McDonalds is to enter the work force developing and learning skills. I believe it is up to each of us to strive to be the best we can be and to get the necessary training and education to get a job that WILL pay us a "living wage". It is not up to each and every employer to supply a living wage. It's called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, a concept that many people don't seem to have. There are many people who seem to think it is someone else's responsibility to see to our welfare.

For those who say it's too hard for some to develop their education and/or skills, I say where there's a will there's a way. We all have choices; some make better choice than others so why should those who make better choices be punished for those who don't?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Some of the comments in this tread lean towards socialism. There are many countries that are socialist or communist and they all seem to be failing. I don't know about you, but I KNOW that I don't want to live in one of those countries.

There are too many variables to say that every company should be paying X as a base pay. Take for example an ice cream stand, do you think that a person working at an ice cream stand should be earning $32.54 per hour to start? This amount is based on the median necessary living wage across the entire US which is $67,690. The state with the lowest annual living wage is Mississippi, with $58,321. The state with the highest living wage is Hawaii, with $136,437. This information was pulled from this below web site. www.businessinsider.com/living-wage-income-to-live-comfortably-in-every-us-st

We have had this discussion many times before on these boards and we never seem to be able to come to an agreement. (Not that we have any real say in the matter other than what we as individuals decide for ourselves.) The idea of working for an ice cream stand or a McDonalds is to enter the work force developing and learning skills. I believe it is up to each of us to strive to be the best we can be and to get the necessary training and education to get a job that WILL pay us a "living wage". It is not up to each and every employer to supply a living wage. It's called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, a concept that many people don't seem to have. There are many people who seem to think it is someone else's responsibility to see to our welfare.

For those who say it's too hard for some to develop their education and/or skills, I say where there's a will there's a way. We all have choices; some make better choice than others so why should those who make better choices be punished for those who don't?

Your link has been removed from the site FYI (ETA: or it was pasted in incomplete).

 

[sam_gordon]

My first job out of college was an entry level paying slightly above minimum wage. I kept learning new things, and kept changing jobs in the company until I was a department head. Of course, each job change came with a raise. None of the job changes required taking classes, it was just "on the job training" and a desire to learn. Yes, I was fortunate enough to go to college. But for what I did, the college degree wasn't really needed. Almost 32 years later, I got laid off. The guy who started the year before me, doing the same job I was (just on a different shift) STILL does the same job on the same shift 30+ years later. The guy who trained me, after leaving for a couple years, returned to do the same job.

Even a fast food worker can learn, apply themselves, and become a shift/crew lead, an assistant manager, a manager, etc. My teenage daughter has been working in fast food almost a year. She's been told they'd make her a crew lead/training if she's interested. If someone is still just "flipping burgers", bagging groceries, or sweeping up after a couple years, much less 5-10, I'd say they don't have a DESIRE to improve.

Are there people who truly don't have the mentality to "move up"? Of course. But I feel they are by FAR in the minority.

 

[tvguy]

McDonalds must to reading this thread. They just dropped double cheeseburger prices to 50 cents.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/new...D6b_xfsnRt6Ab_fy6A2YwA8_rWaCV411664_n1ynuCVCo

 

[tvguy]

That is slightly misleading because of several factors. For instance, if you go back to 1938, the number is $5.25 -I think most would agree that's too low. If you use the year I was born(1963), the minimum wage would stand at $12.25. (Per the US Bureau of Labor Statistics)

Minimum wage here in California will be $15.50 in a few weeks. And the fast food places here are all paying above $20 an hour just to try and get people to go to work for them.

 

[Dan Murphy]

That is slightly misleading because of several factors. For instance, if you go back to 1938, the number is $5.25 -I think most would agree that's too low. If you use the year I was born(1963), the minimum wage would stand at $12.25. (Per the US Bureau of Labor Statistics)

I started my first office job in 1964, age 20. I had worked in several factories the prior 3 years. My 1964 starting pay was $2 an hour. Minimum wage in 1964 was $1.15.

 

[Dan Murphy]

50 cent double cheeseburgers, today and tomorrow, using the app. Also, free Happy Meal, dollar coffee and soft drinks, any size. Dollar large fries.

Use the app, works great.

 

[Colleen27]

Just to note, if we linked minimum wage to inflation since it's inception, minimum wage today would be about.... $8.

I don't think that saying something should be a certain way means we have to go back to its inception and make-believe it has always been that way. We don't set new environmental or vehicle safety or occupational health rules based on how things were when those ideas were first created. Why would the suggestion that minimum wage be linked to inflation going forward require looking 80+ years back?

Some of the comments in this tread lean towards socialism. There are many countries that are socialist or communist and they all seem to be failing. I don't know about you, but I KNOW that I don't want to live in one of those countries.


For those who say it's too hard for some to develop their education and/or skills, I say where there's a will there's a way. We all have choices; some make better choice than others so why should those who make better choices be punished for those who don't?

Socialism in the US is just a buzzword for any argument that is too pro-worker. We're lagging behind almost every other developed nation in the world on a wide scope of quality-of-life measures because those scare tactics have us convinced that we're just one strike or labor law away from becoming North Korea that we are shamed for advocating for any sort of improvements for the "have nots" of the country.

And regardless of how good any individual is or isn't at developing their own personal skills, the fact remains that a very large segment - on its way to a majority, per most economists' forecasts - of the total jobs available in this country are low wage. An individual person improving themselves out of that situation doesn't change the bigger picture of what comes when 40+ percent of workers can't afford to make ends meet.

 

[Colleen27]

Your link has been removed from the site FYI (ETA: or it was pasted in incomplete).

View attachment 723815

Google did turn up the article, which links to this as the source of its figures: https://www.gobankingrates.com/money/jobs/living-wage-every-state/

Worth noting, they defined "live comfortably" as living by the 50/30/20 rule so this isn't just the ability to make ends meet. It is the ability to live on half of one's total income while dividing the rest between savings and fun. In other words, a "living wage" (per the usual definition of providing for the basics of life) would be around half of the numbers they come up with, maybe a bit more if you include having the ability to save at least a little something.