What next?

4407mark

Walt's #1 Fan
Joined
Aug 18, 2000
Attendance is up, profits are up, unfavorable attendance mix (WTH?) at DL - and Chapek wants to increase prices? Make animated classics into live-action? I don’t get it. I have been a DVC members for 22 years, an annual pass holder off and on, got married on the DCL (now platinum) - and a Walt fan since I was in the 4th grade. I am seriously concerned about the company’s direction and what the future looks like. Don’t get me wrong - I love being in the parks and at the resorts, although it is becoming more difficult to afford it for my family. We’ll continue to go as long as we can afford to but I suspect it will become more of a bi-annual or tri-annual trip instead of annual.

Just venting…
 

Narcoossee11

DIS Veteran
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Not unlike every business, IT WILL nEVER BE THE SAME

Disney had a great business opportunity to examine how they could change their business model.
Don't fool yourself , Walt would be jn agreement with most changes. He was in the business to MAKE money for him and the stock holders.

CM's get paid in money not pixie dust.
 

RivShore

DIS Veteran
Joined
Sep 27, 2019
Attendance is up, profits are up, unfavorable attendance mix (WTH?) at DL - and Chapek wants to increase prices? Make animated classics into live-action? I don’t get it. I have been a DVC members for 22 years, an annual pass holder off and on, got married on the DCL (now platinum) - and a Walt fan since I was in the 4th grade. I am seriously concerned about the company’s direction and what the future looks like. Don’t get me wrong - I love being in the parks and at the resorts, although it is becoming more difficult to afford it for my family. We’ll continue to go as long as we can afford to but I suspect it will become more of a bi-annual or tri-annual trip instead of annual.

Just venting…
It may not be that way forever, as soon as the crowds slow, the discounts will come.
 

TiggerBouncy

DIS Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2013
Everything in this world is cyclical. Disney is on the wrong side of the circle, but the Circle of Life will continue to rotate and Disney will change, and change, and change. Some change will be good, some bad. Eventually there will be a time that the good outweighs the bad for a while. Then the wheel turns again, and the bad outweights the good.

That's how life works.
 

middlechild

Mouseketeer
Joined
Nov 4, 2013
Typically a competitor would emerge, to take the place vacated by the incumbent. Back to basics of great customer service, focused on the needs of the customer, addressing the gap in an affordable vacation experience. Some local park perhaps that fits these criteria starts expanding and getting notice. Or conversely, TWDC notices small local parks expanding and buys them out or sues them into dust, and the cycle of price raises continues uninterrupted. Time will tell.
 

Devil13

Mouseketeer
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
The way to fix the unfavorables is to stop renewing their APs, eliminate the top couple tiers, or increase prices. Surprised to see all of that hasn't happened in FL yet. I guess there's still time.
Not sure how this would help. Eliminate us out-of-staters who fly in, stay on property and buy their food? We’re the dream scenario for spending.

If anything, they should flip the pricing and make it most expensive for locals who can walk in, ride Thunder Mountain then, go home for dinner. That’s Bobby’s nightmare scenario.

Either way, the answer is always raise prices and eliminate benefits.

Being a guy who’s never been to Universal, I’m pulling for them. It’s the only way things will change.
 
Last edited:

RivShore

DIS Veteran
Joined
Sep 27, 2019
I respectfully disagree on Walt - I don’t think he would be in agreement with most of the recent changes. Yes, he did want to make money but he also wanted to create a place where families could make memories and increasing prices makes it increasingly difficult for a lot of families to do that. Granted, there are still a lot of folks who can pay the increased prices but for many, they can’t. Roy might have supported some of these recent changes but I think Walt would have some issue with some of them.
There are no easy answers - the problem being too much demand - too many families want to go to WDW.
The only answer to slow demand is to raise prices. What other option is there? If you keep prices constant and restrict access to first come first serve or some kind of lottery, guess what's going to happen, a giant secondary market for WDW reservations will develop - . Imagine how high those prices will go - see stubhub for an example.
Seriously what other ways are there to slow demand and keep the in park experience reasonable?

ETA: a short recession might fix a lot of this.
 

RivShore

DIS Veteran
Joined
Sep 27, 2019
Typically a competitor would emerge, to take the place vacated by the incumbent. Back to basics of great customer service, focused on the needs of the customer, addressing the gap in an affordable vacation experience. Some local park perhaps that fits these criteria starts expanding and getting notice. Or conversely, TWDC notices small local parks expanding and buys them out or sues them into dust, and the cycle of price raises continues uninterrupted. Time will tell.
The problem is that there really isn't a similar enough competitor out there. No castle pun intended but WDW has a wide moat that no other park can compete with. What other park in the USA or around the world can offer as much (4 parks, 2 water parks, large shopping/dining district, 40,000 hotel rooms) for as long (minimum week stay to do it all)? Universal is probably closest but at most it's a 3 day stay that is much smaller overall than WDW.
 

RoseGold

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Not sure how this would help. Eliminate us out-of-staters who fly in, stay on property and buy their food? We’re the dream scenario for spending.

If anything, they should flip the pricing and make it most expensive for locals who can walk in, ride Thunder Mountain then, go home for dinner. That’s Bobby’s nightmare scenario.
The way to do this is get you in the resort bucket, not the "unfavorable" bucket.
 
Last edited:

Devil13

Mouseketeer
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
The way to do this is get you in the resort bucket, not the "unfavorable" bucket.
Problem is, for me at least, if there’s no AP, there’s no hotel reservation and no visit at all. That day is getting closer with every change.

Which is why is don’t understand the strategy for out of state APs. You assume that there is probably a 90%+ chance a hotel stay is involved, and with that comes all the favorabilty that they are looking for. I fly down 3 times a year or more and they want to squeeze me out? Removing my AP and there’s no incentive for me to come back multiple times a year. Once that is gone maybe I go once a year, maybe never. Right now I’m locked in and that’s just what my family does. Push me away and you’re taking a chance. Sure someone may take my place, but they won’t have an AP either and no incentive to repeat visit either.

The way I see it is that they have about a year left on this little run before the pendulum swings back.

Counter intuitive to hope a place I love so much fails so miserably, but that’s the situation I’m in. They’re on a nice little run with reservations and Genie+ and $250 after hour parties, price increases, etc., but I can’t wait until it comes crashing down and they are forced to turn to the people that they alienated to save them.
 

Aluminum Falcon

DIS Veteran
Joined
Aug 9, 2021
Problem is, for me at least, if there’s no AP, there’s no hotel reservation and no visit at all. That day is getting closer with every change.

Which is why is don’t understand the strategy for out of state APs. You assume that there is probably a 90%+ chance a hotel stay is involved, and with that comes all the favorabilty that they are looking for. I fly down 3 times a year or more and they want to squeeze me out? Removing my AP and there’s no incentive for me to come back multiple times a year. Once that is gone maybe I go once a year, maybe never. Right now I’m locked in and that’s just what my family does. Push me away and you’re taking a chance. Sure someone may take my place, but they won’t have an AP either and no incentive to repeat visit either.

The way I see it is that they have about a year left on this little run before the pendulum swings back.

Counter intuitive to hope a place I love so much fails so miserably, but that’s the situation I’m in. They’re on a nice little run with reservations and Genie+ and $250 after hour parties, price increases, etc., but I can’t wait until it comes crashing down and they are forced to turn to the people that they alienated to save them.
Unfortunately i do not think that this has happened in the past, i can't think of a time that Disney has had to drop their pricing in recent history. If they are doing this well with reservations during a period of high inflation i just can't see them having to cut down from here.

IMO i don't think they need AP's any longer, there is a fresh crop of customers every year with a slew of new kids, (primarily because the largest generation ever aka millennials are in prime child rearing years). Coupled with the fact that Disney World/ Land are looked at as a right of passage for middle class American kids, and the fact that millennials have smaller families then the past with higher disposable incomes, and you've got the perfect storm for a money printing machine year after year. AP's just aren't needed like they were in the past, we've all contributed to this monster, and we have to live with the consequences haha
 

RivShore

DIS Veteran
Joined
Sep 27, 2019
Unfortunately i do not think that this has happened in the past, i can't think of a time that Disney has had to drop their pricing in recent history. If they are doing this well with reservations during a period of high inflation i just can't see them having to cut down from here.

IMO i don't think they need AP's any longer, there is a fresh crop of customers every year with a slew of new kids, (primarily because the largest generation ever aka millennials are in prime child rearing years). Coupled with the fact that Disney World/ Land are looked at as a right of passage for middle class American kids, and the fact that millennials have smaller families then the past with higher disposable incomes, and you've got the perfect storm for a money printing machine year after year. AP's just aren't needed like they were in the past, we've all contributed to this monster, and we have to live with the consequences haha

I think your right they have never permanently reduced prices but they have given significant discounts during slower periods - 30-40% off rooms and buy 4 days get 3 free kind of promos. They can pull those levers if needed.

As for AP's, even in this current hyper busy time there are expected to be slow times where AP's can help fill the gaps. Once the pent up demand slows, there will be slow times again in Sep/Jan/May. Maybe the AP's come back with significant blackouts around the busy times, currently it's just a few weeks blocked on the FL pass, maybe that goes to a few months and the top pass goes to a few weeks blocked.
 
Last edited:

Aluminum Falcon

DIS Veteran
Joined
Aug 9, 2021
I think your right they have never permanently reduced prices but they have given significant discounts during slower periods - 30-40% off rooms and buy 4 days get 3 free kind of promos. They can pull those levers if needed.

As for AP's, enen in this current hyper busy time there a expected to be slow times where AP's can help fill the gaps. Once the pent up demand slows, there will be slow times again in Sep/Jan/May. Maybe the AP's come back with significant blackouts around the busy times, currently it's just a few weeks blocked on the FL pass, maybe that goes to a few months and the top pass goes to a few weeks blocked.
I feel like many people talk about how there isn't anymore dead periods at WDW, and that was well before the pandemic. I just don't think AP holders are as needed as people think. Please don't take this as an attack, just more of an observation that TWDC has probably already recognized and alluded to in their last earnings call, AP holders especially local ones probably spend a lot less, "cheat" their systems, and congest the parks, not to mention they buy out Disneys park exclusive items for retail which in Disneys eyes probably cheapens the brand. (the previous comment in particular applies to WDW)
i have never seen anywhere that Disney has leaned on AP holders to get them through economic pull backs, i would assume their strategy would be like most businesses, cut back or charge more, or both, it just seems like AP holders have an inflated sense of worth, with how popular the parks have been over the last two decades, through multiple recessions it just doesn't add up.
 

J-Dog

A Nobody
Joined
Sep 4, 2016
I respectfully disagree on Walt - I don’t think he would be in agreement with most of the recent changes. Yes, he did want to make money but he also wanted to create a place where families could make memories and increasing prices makes it increasingly difficult for a lot of families to do that. Granted, there are still a lot of folks who can pay the increased prices but for many, they can’t. Roy might have supported some of these recent changes but I think Walt would have some issue with some of them.
I agree with you. A major tenant of his vision was the Disney be family friendly.

I don't believe for a second that Chapek cares about that. Case in point: Chapek is really pushing for Disney to get into sports betting.

Now, I have no problem with sports betting, but it is clearly NOT family friendly (obviously, since kids can't do it or be around it) and, to me, seems like a desperate grab at any profit they can find at the expense of Walt's vision for his company.
 

Aluminum Falcon

DIS Veteran
Joined
Aug 9, 2021
I agree with you. A major tenant of his vision was the Disney be family friendly.

I don't believe for a second that Chapek cares about that. Case in point: Chapek is really pushing for Disney to get into sports betting.

Now, I have no problem with sports betting, but it is clearly NOT family friendly (obviously, since kids can't do it or be around it) and, to me, seems like a desperate grab at any profit they can find at the expense of Walt's vision for his company.
I think people go offs the rails a little on the family focused part of Walt. That is definitely a huge part of who he was, but if on this case taking in revenue from sports betting aided in building something like EPCOT, I think he probably would have jumped. It’s also hard to say considering how diversified Disney has become in the last few decades, you have to adapt with the times or you probably won’t survive. So I think it’s just too simplistic to place Walt’s 1960’s ideal into play in the 2020’s
 
Last edited:








GET A NO-OBLIGATION VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!

Top