What Israel can teach the world about security

[bavaria]

Updated link

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...ns_Checks_On_Passengers_Flying_In_From_Abroad

But Lisa, I don't really see that as anything that 'new' for most travellers flying from places like AMS, LHR, FRA, etc. The flights to the US already have those measures in place.

 

[Wall-E1]

What, exactly, are the increased number of airports that "we" have to manage? US flight numbers have actually dropped, not increased, during the last couple of years....remember? Don't get your point here. Our job is a "bit" harder because we allowed four domestic flights to be hijacked on 9/11/01! And, we have - once again - become impatient and complacent.

I know this is a hard point to follow. Let me elaborate...

We have over 14,000 airports. Israel has about 30 airports. When you put these two numbers side by side, one can conclude that we have a bit more airports to manage.

The U.S. has to manage over 13 million flights a year. Israel handles nowhere near that number. Hope that clears up the confusion.

 

[LisaR]

Updated link

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...ns_Checks_On_Passengers_Flying_In_From_Abroad

But Lisa, I don't really see that as anything that 'new' for most travellers flying from places like AMS, LHR, FRA, etc. The flights to the US already have those measures in place.

I don't travel internationally so I can only go by what my friends and family that travel overseas frequently have told me. They never witness anyone from "countries of interest" being patted down. They are given the same type of security measures as everyone else. Maybe I am reading too much into the articles that I have looked at so far but this sounds to me like they will be paying particular attention to those that are out to do us harm.

 

[bavaria]

There is a thread about how much more security is done in many international airports, including details from AMS on the Transportation Board.

For flights to the US, there is a gate screening with a WTMD (walk through metal detector) and a physical search which is far more intrusive than the 'pat down' performed at US airports. Every passenger must go through these. At many airports there is also a hand check of every carry on again before boarding, as well as security questions asked of every passenger. There are then random additional checks in the jetway.

Those things were already in place. The 'new' rules are mostly 'new' in that they list the countries.

A WTMD would not have shown the explosives, and there is a report in the Independent today that a WBI (whole body imager) would not have shown it either. Nor would even the more intrusive physical search have shown it. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/are-planned-airport-scanners-just-a-scam-1856175.html

As a Nigerian passport holder, flying from Nigeria, with a valid US visa, and having submitted the required API (advance passenger information), he still was not denied on board because nothing triggered in the intelligence system.

This report may make you 'feel' better, but it may not actually improve things that much. Richard Reid for instance wouldn't have prompted additional action based on itinerary and passport.

 

[1957]

I know this is a hard point to follow. Let me elaborate...

We have over 14,000 airports. Israel has about 30 airports. When you put these two numbers side by side, one can conclude that we have a bit more airports to manage.

The U.S. has to manage over 13 million flights a year. Israel handles nowhere near that number. Hope that clears up the confusion.

I know this is a hard point for you, as well. Let me elaborate.....

Israel 0 since 1969

Perhaps we need to manage our thousands of airports "a bit" better in 2010 and beyond.

 

[Wall-E1]

I know this is a hard point for you, as well. Let me elaborate.....

Israel 0 since 1969

Perhaps we need to manage our thousands of airports "a bit" better.

This is getting strange, like the other night when you were making no sense.

I never debated the fact that Israel hasn't had a hijacking since 1969, so I don't know who you are debating that issue with.

And why do you keep debating a point that I agree with? I have stated in several posts on this thread that we could stand to improve our security. Yet, you keep coming back to me with the point that we have to improve our security.

The way it works is this. If someone is agreeing with you that there is a need for improved security, then there is no need to debate that issue with the person further, as the two are in agreement. You are becoming more confused with every post.

 

[ProgressCity]

Well, that is scary if it is happening, but I have been thoroughly checked every time I have gone through a checkpoint with my passport, as has my son. I just am having a hard time believing this.

I travel to the Bahamas and because of being adopted and later getting married I have a different name on every piece of ID I have and I have never been questioned. I always carry the court documents detailing my name changes, but I have never been asked for them. So I present a birth certificate and a driver's license with a COMPLETELY different name and I have NEVER been questioned, their eyes just gloss over it. Next time I'm thinking of presenting my gym ID and see if that phases them .

 

[Wall-E1]

I travel to the Bahamas and because of being adopted and later getting married I have a different name on every piece of ID I have and I have never been questioned. I always carry the court documents detailing my name changes, but I have never been asked for them. So I present a birth certificate and a driver's license with a COMPLETELY different name and I have NEVER been questioned, their eyes just gloss over it. Next time I'm thinking of presenting my gym ID and see if that phases them .

 

[LuvOrlando]

What method of theirs would be considered by us to be "politically incorrect"?

And by the way, you are wrong. We do use many of their procedures already. We do have undercover agents that work in the airports and try to profile people by observing their behavior and accessing whether they are a threat based on their behavior.

I think you'd have to be kidding yourself if you don't think people with an Arab birthplace or Passports stamped from places like Yemen aren't treated differently by the Israeli's. No way would the Kumbaya folks ever tolerate such blatant intolerance in the US. As an aside, it is my opinion, that this mindset is the terrorists secret weapon. Do you remember how people behaved in Borat? The true tragedy of that film is Sacha Baron Cohen, who happens to be interested in Jewish politics, was mocking our super inclusive, make everyone feel ok no matter what they do culture. Borat was an insult and most American's didn't even get it, they thought he was taking jabs at people like the character

I don't know what the answer is but I do know we do have more than enough money to sort something out if it would only become an priority... but it seems to me everyone has more important things to do.

 

[Silent1CB]

I knew exactly what Wall-E1 meant the first time he/she posted it.

 

[Wall-E1]

I think you'd have to be kidding yourself if you don't think people with an Arab birthplace or Passports stamped from places like Yemen aren't treated differently by the Israeli's. No way would the Kumbaya folks ever tolerate such blatant intolerance in the US. As an aside, it is my opinion, that this mindset is the terrorists secret weapon. Do you remember how people behaved in Borat? The true tragedy of that film is Sacha Baron Cohen, who happens to be interested in Jewish politics, was mocking our super inclusive, make everyone feel ok no matter what they do culture. Borat was an insult and most American's didn't even get it, they thought he was taking jabs at people like the character

I don't know what the answer is but I do know we do have more than enough money to sort something out if it would only become an priority... but it seems to me everyone has more important things to do.

I don't know how Israel treats people from Yemen. I really don't care. I agree with you that the "Kumbaya folks" in the U.S. would not tolerate such blatant intolerance. This is because America doesn't and shouldn't endorse "racial profiling" This type of behavior is something that racists would like to see instilled in our culture. These people are not true Americans and have lost their way. This is not what our country stands for.

Borat was an eye opening film about the blatant racism that still runs deep in our country. He was taking jabs at racism and discrimination and showing how ridiculous those people and their views are. Plus, his film also featured the funniest scene ever put on screen. I am speaking of the naked hotel room wrestling scene - pure brilliance!

Didn't you learn your lesson when I set you straight in your hate crime thread? You remember that one. That was the one where you thought that the hate crime laws only protected gays and blacks, and that the law was unfair. Then, I presented you with actual facts. At that point, you mysteriously disappeared from the very thread that you started. Here's a link in case you lost it. Feel free to respond...
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2345480

 

[testifyoncruises]

You can go on feeling better about our joke of a TSA. Since they decided to go after bloggers for publishing the text of a security directive and then ended their subpoena tactics.

Well it turns out one of them left their notebook behind in plain sight for anyone to see.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/runway-girl/2010/01/exclusive-tsa-agents-notebook.html

Security. Theater. 'Nuff Said.

 

[testifyoncruises]

I don't know how Israel treats people from Yemen. I really don't care. I agree with you that the "Kumbaya folks" in the U.S. would not tolerate such blatant intolerance. This is because America doesn't and shouldn't endorse "racial profiling" This type of behavior is something that racists would like to see instilled in our culture.

Please read the link again, where in that story does it say that the Israelis engage in any type racial profiling.

 

[Wall-E1]

I think not, and think you are the one becoming more confused. You did mention something like, "What makes Israel's airports more special"?

Okay, I just checked back through the entire thread and I have never said that. I did say that I didn't see how their security measures were better than ours, as we do a lot of the same things. I'm not sure where you pulled that quote out of, but I'm assuming that it was some place dark.

You've also stated that you're happy with our Security the way it is now.

I also did not say this. In several posts I have stated that although I feel safe flying in the U.S., I do believe that we can improve security. Here are actual quotes from me...

Do we need improvements? Sure we do.

We should take what we like about theirs and incorporate them into ours.

We have some things to fix.

Our methods do need to be improved.

I have stated in several posts on this thread that we could stand to improve our security. Yet, you keep coming back to me with the point that we have to improve our security.

The way it works is this. If someone is agreeing with you that there is a need for improved security, then there is no need to debate that issue with the person further, as the two are in agreement.

So, after reading all of these posts, I do not understand how you came away with the impression that I am happy with our security the way it is now. I'll say it again. We can improve our security. We can make flying safer.

I'm not the one who's wishy-washy. Not worth pursuing this any longer with you. Sorry, but I don't think you're particularly intelligent. Good luck.
one who

That hurt. I'm not calling you names. If you are on the losing end of a discussion, it's okay to just bow out gracefully. Your behavior clearly is showing off the attitude of someone who is upset that they are in the wrong. I'm sorry that I am so wishy-washy and that my posts are so difficult for you to understand. I really should be more clear. As I have shown in my quotes above, it's easy to see how one could be confused by my statements. I shall try my best to be less wishy-washy with you in the future. Good luck to you.

 

[Wall-E1]

You can go on feeling better about our joke of a TSA. Since they decided to go after bloggers for publishing the text of a security directive and then ended their subpoena tactics.

Well it turns out one of them left their notebook behind in plain sight for anyone to see.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/runway-girl/2010/01/exclusive-tsa-agents-notebook.html

Security. Theater. 'Nuff Said.

First of all, you have zero credibility. We both know that you do not work with a group to access security issues at airports, as you stated. You see, I am able to profile you very easily.

Second, a link to a blog that has a notepad as "hard evidence" is completely ridiculous. If that is all it takes to pull you in, that is very sad.

"Nuff said.

 

[KathyTX]

Since politics and arguments aren't appropriate here, this is closed.