What is your line in the sand?

[disneyholic family]

They charge for parking and refrigerators????

My tipping point? We haven't come anywhere close. In fact, we just purchased Disney's Vacation Club. So we plan to vacation at Disney for years to come.

sort of related to nothing, but it is i guess...
a universal story from 3 years ago...

first off, let me say that i am a disney person, not a universal person...
i really don't like the universal parks at all..
so perhaps that colors my experiences there..

anyway, 3 years ago, we did a one night onsite at universal so that we could do early entry for harry potter...

we arrived very late at night on a saturday night (we didn't move out of disney, we just took a little carry on bag and headed over to universal for one night - yeah, paying for two resorts, what can i say...it's just easier)..

anyway, i'd reserved two rooms as we were 6 people, and the maximum early entry was 3 or 4 per room...so i needed two rooms..

fine...

we arrived probably at about 1 AM? something like that..

i drive up and ask the doorman where the handicapped parking is.

He said the handicapped is full, so he suggests using valet parking and telling the hotel to not charge us for parking. Sounds reasonable. That's how they do it at disney.

Fine. We pile out, i hand over the car and go in to check in.

We check in, and i say, by the way, i had to use valet blah blah blah, giving the whole story.
He tells me i have to pay for parking and valet.
And i say, no, i don't. Your handicapped is full so it's your problem to get the car parked.
We go back and forth, when i say at disney, handicapped people never have to pay for valet parking. It's ALWAYS complimentary etcetc

Eventually i start raising my voice....
and trust me, it takes a long time before that happens...
i am your friendly neighborhood wimp.....
i always get walked all over....
and this was over a small amount of money....
so why didn't i give in? maybe because i hate universal, so i wasn't in a good mood to begin with..
anyway, i raised my voice, citing disney's valet etc etc etc.

Eventually, whoever he spoke with in the back, told him to go ahead and not charge me for parking or valet.

anyway....related to nothing, but to me indicative of something...not sure what

 

[Luckybee]

sort of related to nothing, but it is i guess...
a universal story from 3 years ago...

first off, let me say that i am a disney person, not a universal person...
i really don't like the universal parks at all..
so perhaps that colors my experiences there..

anyway, 3 years ago, we did a one night onsite at universal so that we could do early entry for harry potter...

we arrived very late at night on a saturday night (we didn't move out of disney, we just took a little carry on bag and headed over to universal for one night - yeah, paying for two resorts, what can i say...it's just easier)..

anyway, i'd reserved two rooms as we were 6 people, and the maximum early entry was 3 or 4 per room...so i needed two rooms..

fine...

we arrived probably at about 1 AM? something like that..

i drive up and ask the doorman where the handicapped parking is.

He said the handicapped is full, so he suggests using valet parking and telling the hotel to not charge us for parking. Sounds reasonable. That's how they do it at disney.

Fine. We pile out, i hand over the car and go in to check in.

We check in, and i say, by the way, i had to use valet blah blah blah, giving the whole story.
He tells me i have to pay for parking and valet.
And i say, no, i don't. Your handicapped is full so it's your problem to get the car parked.
We go back and forth, when i say at disney, handicapped people never have to pay for valet parking. It's ALWAYS complimentary etcetc

Eventually i start raising my voice....
and trust me, it takes a long time before that happens...
i am your friendly neighborhood wimp.....
i always get walked all over....
and this was over a small amount of money....
so why didn't i give in? maybe because i hate universal, so i wasn't in a good mood to begin with..
anyway, i raised my voice, citing disney's valet etc etc etc.

Eventually, whoever he spoke with in the back, told him to go ahead and not charge me for parking or valet.

anyway....related to nothing, but to me indicative of something...not sure what

That is unfortunate but can happen anywhere. Our experience at checkin for Portofino was an upgrade to a beautiful bayfront deluxe, a 1 minute wait for service (contra the 10 minute wait and confusion we had at check in at AK when they couldn't figure out we were concierge level and they kept telling us we weren't)a greeting by name from the mgr providing us with a business card if we had any issues, arrangements made to override the ac because I like a cool room for sleeping(contra to ak where we were told it couldn't be done ), an explanation card and details from the check in agent for the property facilities and for our extra amenities including our 4pm checkout, $100 food and beverage credit etc.(we were staying on the amex fine hotels program...Disney doesn't have a hotel in that program since the hotels must reach a certain level of luxury and service to participate). We may have been lucky but we went to U expecting to get a theme park deluxe(like Disneys) and expected to be eh about the hotel and we found we were thrilled with the quality and service. Oh and did I mention that we only paid 1/2 of what a D deluxe would have been.

 

[SmithSmith]

You made financial comparisons that were simply inaccurate and skewed.

I could go on.......

Then do... because nothing you brought up could remotely be considered inaccurate.

Express pass v FP+:
I've already stated why I like the latter. It fits my touring style and I do not wish to pay extra for it. Universal charges as low as $35 and up to $110 per person (for a single park) and $40 to $120 (for both parks) for the basic EP. I've found only 3 dates over the next year where it's just $35/$40: Feb 8 & 22 and Nov 30. Moderately busy dates start at $50/$56. Sumer, spring break and holidays start at $80/$90. So basically, the busier the park... the more its necessary... the more you pay. I find that ridiculous!
There is nothing inaccurate or "bizarre" about that... because it's what I prefer.

Short waits v long waits:
My husband and I visited Sept 26-Oct 1 2014. I took the time to compile a list of the attractions we visited and noted the date and wait times if you'd like to see it. The longest waits we encountered were Jungle Cruise and Big Thunder Mountain, both were 15 minutes standby. Everything else was 10 minutes or less. The majority were walk-ons.
As a side note, because of health issues we will not wait longer than 20 minutes for any attraction.
There is nothing inaccurate or "bizarre" about that... because it's what I experienced.

All-inclusive v nickel and diming:
You see it as "saving $200" over a Disney Deluxe. I do not see this as "saving" because you're still spending more on a hotel room than what needs to be spent!

I do not stay deluxe.
I do not want to pay for parking.
I do not want to pay for a refrigerator.
I do not want to pay for an express pass.
I do not like to be nickel and dimed.
There is nothing inaccurate or "bizarre" about it... because that is my mindset.

Annual passes:
I said "Also, the best Uni offers is a restricted express pass for certain AP holders".
This is true. The premiere pass is the only pass that comes with an express pass and it is only good after 4 pm. I never said, nor implied, that you couldn't purchase extra express passes.
However, I don't see it even being a very popular option because, like I displayed above, that would get quite expensive for a park regular.
Again, there is nothing inaccurate or 'bizarre" about that because the first part is fact, the second part is my speculation.

You said "I mean my goodness, a throwaway room at D for JUST 3 attractions would be more for us than unlimited EP's for a day in May"

I still don't see why you were comparing the cost of an express pass to the cost of a throwaway room. Since you are... the average cost for a 1 park EP in May is $57, the 2 park EP is $70, The cost of a throwaway campsite is $84-$98. No matter how you slice it a throwaway is cheaper. For example, on May 7 the cost of a 1 park EP is at the months lowest: $49.99. The cost of a campsite is $75. For 2 adults an EP would total $106.48, the throwaway total just $84.38.

P.s. I think you need to get better acquainted with the definition of "inaccurate" before you go making anymore accusations.

 

[ken2]

Im not sure what would keep us from going.The price only raised a few dollars from year to year.It is always been pleasent for us when we go.Sure i would like to see a change in FP+ as far as being pinned down to a certian park at a certian time on a certian day(rain comes to mind) but it still works good for us.At least we know we will get to ride a certian ride before we get there.We have been to many amusement/theme parks before but nothing compares to Disney World

 

[Nayan]

The line has already been crossed with price and food quality. I no longer see the value of a Disney vacation. After spending a week in the Keys and enjoying some of the best food I've had in a long time for half the cost of Disney, my vacation dollars are being spent elsewhere.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Re nickel and diming at the Universal resorts....

You are paying for all of those things at the Disney resorts (resort fee, refrigerator, parking)...But they are just rolling it into the price. Oh yeah, and Magical Express and the rest of the Disney transportation, whether or not you use it.

Now, perhaps rolling everything into one price makes it more palatable for some folks, but it's just not true that you aren't paying for these things at Disney.

 

[olwyngdh]

Re nickel and diming at the Universal resorts....

You are paying for all of those things at the Disney resorts (resort fee, refrigerator, parking)...But they are just rolling it into the price. Oh yeah, and Magical Express and the rest of the Disney transportation, whether or not you use it.

Now, perhaps rolling everything into one price makes it more palatable for some folks, but it's just not true that you aren't paying for these things at Disney.

I am one of those people who hates being nickle and dimed to death. It annoys me to no end. I don't see it as a la carte as much as I see it as gouging and I have little respect for businesses that do it. I will wait in line before I pay for an express pass at any park. I despise parking fees, I am already paying for a room, I shouldn't have to pay additional to park a car in the parking lot. (That was one of the things I hated about staying at Shades of Green--no airport transportation and then they gouge you to park). At least at Disney if I buy an extra ticket for a party, I am getting a party. It is a separate thing with a separate fee, not a needed thing that they charge extra to have. 3 FP+ that don't cost me extra are of a lot more value to me than an extra $50+ on top of my ticket so I don't have to wait in lines. If I ever go to universal, I will stay on site so I don't have to pay extra for line access, but I am unlikely to do that since they are too cheap to provide transportation from the airport like any decent hotel in any other city does and then want me to pay to park the car that I had to rent to get there.

 

[Suvadoo]

I am one of those people who hates being nickle and dimed to death. It annoys me to no end. I don't see it as a la carte as much as I see it as gouging and I have little respect for businesses that do it. I will wait in line before I pay for an express pass at any park. I despise parking fees, I am already paying for a room, I shouldn't have to pay additional to park a car in the parking lot. (That was one of the things I hated about staying at Shades of Green--no airport transportation and then they gouge you to park). At least at Disney if I buy an extra ticket for a party, I am getting a party. It is a separate thing with a separate fee, not a needed thing that they charge extra to have. 3 FP+ that don't cost me extra are of a lot more value to me than an extra $50+ on top of my ticket so I don't have to wait in lines. If I ever go to universal, I will stay on site so I don't have to pay extra for line access, but I am unlikely to do that since they are too cheap to provide transportation from the airport like any decent hotel in any other city does and then want me to pay to park the car that I had to rent to get there.

Regardless of how you see things: parking , Magic Bands, Magical Express, and FP+ are all built into the price you're paying to stay at a Disney resort and the price you're paying for theme park tickets. You may like it better because you don't see the charges, but nothing at WDW is "Free".

 

[olwyngdh]

Regardless of how you see things: parking , Magic Bands, Magical Express, and FP+ are all built into the price you're paying to stay at a Disney resort and the price you're paying for theme park tickets. You may like it better because you don't see the charges, but nothing at WDW is "Free".

I have no problem with the things being rolled into the price. That is they way it should be in my book. YMMV.

I think more than anything else it is the pay to park at your resort thing that bothers me. I can choose not to pay extra to stand in a shorter line, I don't always have the option of not paying for parking, especially when no airport transportation is provided. It ticks me off to the point that I don't want to stay at any resort that does it.

 

[SmithSmith]

I have no problem with the things being rolled into the price. That is they way it should be in my book. YMMV.

I think more than anything else it is the pay to park at your resort thing that bothers me. I can choose not to pay extra to stand in a shorter line, I don't always have the option of not paying for parking, especially when no airport transportation is provided. It ticks me off to the point that I don't want to stay at any resort that does it.

As usual, I'm in complete agreement.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I have no problem with the things being rolled into the price. That is they way it should be in my book. YMMV.

I think more than anything else it is the pay to park at your resort thing that bothers me. I can choose not to pay extra to stand in a shorter line, I don't always have the option of not paying for parking, especially when no airport transportation is provided. It ticks me off to the point that I don't want to stay at any resort that does it.

I get that.

I don't mind the fees as long as I know them ahead of time, the final price is the price. I think there are different marketing strategies behind Disney's "one price" hotel rate (well other than the taxes) and other hotels in the area who itemize fees. But either way, the final price is the price and I just compare those.

 

[Luckybee]

Then do... because nothing you brought up could remotely be considered inaccurate.

Express pass v FP+:
I've already stated why I like the latter. It fits my touring style and I do not wish to pay extra for it. Universal charges as low as $35 and up to $110 per person (for a single park) and $40 to $120 (for both parks) for the basic EP. I've found only 3 dates over the next year where it's just $35/$40: Feb 8 & 22 and Nov 30. Moderately busy dates start at $50/$56. Sumer, spring break and holidays start at $80/$90. So basically, the busier the park... the more its necessary... the more you pay. I find that ridiculous!
There is nothing inaccurate or "bizarre" about that... because it's what I prefer.

Short waits v long waits:
My husband and I visited Sept 26-Oct 1 2014. I took the time to compile a list of the attractions we visited and noted the date and wait times if you'd like to see it. The longest waits we encountered were Jungle Cruise and Big Thunder Mountain, both were 15 minutes standby. Everything else was 10 minutes or less. The majority were walk-ons.
As a side note, because of health issues we will not wait longer than 20 minutes for any attraction.
There is nothing inaccurate or "bizarre" about that... because it's what I experienced.

All-inclusive v nickel and diming:
You see it as "saving $200" over a Disney Deluxe. I do not see this as "saving" because you're still spending more on a hotel room than what needs to be spent!

I do not stay deluxe.
I do not want to pay for parking.
I do not want to pay for a refrigerator.
I do not want to pay for an express pass.
I do not like to be nickel and dimed.
There is nothing inaccurate or "bizarre" about it... because that is my mindset.

Annual passes:
I said "Also, the best Uni offers is a restricted express pass for certain AP holders".
This is true. The premiere pass is the only pass that comes with an express pass and it is only good after 4 pm. I never said, nor implied, that you couldn't purchase extra express passes.
However, I don't see it even being a very popular option because, like I displayed above, that would get quite expensive for a park regular.
Again, there is nothing inaccurate or 'bizarre" about that because the first part is fact, the second part is my speculation.

You said "I mean my goodness, a throwaway room at D for JUST 3 attractions would be more for us than unlimited EP's for a day in May"

I still don't see why you were comparing the cost of an express pass to the cost of a throwaway room. Since you are... the average cost for a 1 park EP in May is $57, the 2 park EP is $70, The cost of a throwaway campsite is $84-$98. No matter how you slice it a throwaway is cheaper. For example, on May 7 the cost of a 1 park EP is at the months lowest: $49.99. The cost of a campsite is $75. For 2 adults an EP would total $106.48, the throwaway total just $84.38.

P.s. I think you need to get better acquainted with the definition of "inaccurate" before you go making anymore accusations.

All I'm going to say at this point is that it is obvious that your mindset is such that you will ignore the facts to fit that mindset. If you really believe that 3 fp's are better than unlimited front of the line I cant say anything else about it. If you really believe that its better to pay more for a hotel because its "all inclusive" because otherwise you're being "nickel and dimed" even though you'll spend less for that hotel I cant say anything else. And if you really believe that saving $200 nightly isn't really savings because "You see it as "saving $200" over a Disney Deluxe. I do not see this as "saving" because you're still spending more on a hotel room than what needs to be spent" ....well then I'm at a loss for words.

Oh and btw...we were at Disney the same time as you, along with many others on this board most who indicate standby lines were very long then. You may wish to look back at some other posts of others. I don't know which days you purported to be at MK but one thing I do know for sure is that dh and I skipped Jungle Cruise because the standby line at around 4:00pm was 45 minutes.

And just so you know...I was using Merriam Webster...inaccurate "not correct or exact : having a mistake or error" and bizarre "strikingly out of the ordinary: as

a : odd, extravagant, or eccentric in style or mode

b : involving sensational contrasts or incongruities

Imho both fit quite well thanks !!!

 

[Planogirl]

I've moved beyond my line in the sand. The change at Norway finally put me over the edge and I have no interest in going to WDW for the foreseeable future. Other changes contributed but that change is the straw that broke the camel's back as they say.

Before I get asked why I am here if that's the case, I heard about the GMR change and came to see what was going on. That might get me back in DHS someday at least. I haven't posted in a while though and it's funny to see the same arguments going on.

Oh, we still have plans for Universal. That will become our focus from now. I know, Disney is crowded and won't miss us. I couldn't care less personally.

 

[MadTownKatz]

I would say that my line in the sand would be when they decide to shut everything down, and shutter the entire operation.

Yep. I think at that point, I would have to seriously reconsider vacationing at WDW.

 

[agavegirl1]

I would say that my line in the sand would be when they decide to shut everything down, and shutter the entire operation.

Yep. I think at that point, I would have to seriously reconsider vacationing at WDW.

But, if they sell it to OLC and it would be more like Tokyo, I'd be all in.

BTW, I had to work today. How did this thread devolve into another US vs Disney rant?

 

[SmithSmith]

All I'm going to say at this point is that it is obvious that your mindset is such that you will ignore the facts to fit that mindset. If you really believe that 3 fp's are better than unlimited front of the line I cant say anything else about it. If you really believe that its better to pay more for a hotel because its "all inclusive" because otherwise you're being "nickel and dimed" even though you'll spend less for that hotel I cant say anything else. And if you really believe that saving $200 nightly isn't really savings because "You see it as "saving $200" over a Disney Deluxe. I do not see this as "saving" because you're still spending more on a hotel room than what needs to be spent" ....well then I'm at a loss for words.

Part 1:

If you keep attacking my opinion and throwing around accusations that I'm "inaccurate", or lying, or "mischaracterizing" then be prepared to back it up. I'm a bored housewife with all the time in the world. I...can...literally...do...this...all...day.

You said: "All I'm going to say at this point is that it is obvious that your mindset is such that you will ignore the facts to fit that mindset."

My reply: How do you not understand that there is no right or wrong answer? It's a preference!

You said: "If you really believe that 3 fp's are better than unlimited front of the line I cant say anything else about it."

My reply: Why are you trying to?! I gave you valid reasons why I prefer FP+, and you choose to repeatedly ignore them.

You said: "If you really believe that its better to pay more for a hotel because its "all inclusive" because otherwise you're being "nickel and dimed" even though you'll spend less for that hotel I cant say anything else."

My reply: I stay value. I consider moderate a splurge. I will never stay deluxe because it's a waste of money. So knowing that about me, (which I'm sure you'll choose to ignore... again) let's compare Universal's Value resort to Disney's value resorts and let's see if you're really spending less...

Dec 6-8 Standard rooms:
Pop Century $267.75
Cabana Bay $284.63
Cabana Bay plus parking fees $305.93
AoA $307.13
Cabana Bay with 1 day 1 park EP $412.31
Cabana Bay with 1 day 1 park EP plus parking $433.71
Cabana Bay with 1 day both parks EP $433.71
Cabana Bay with 1 day both parks EP plus parking $455.01

Those prices are just for 1 EP per person for length of stay. Now before you say "Why not just stay deluxe and get EPs for free?". Here's why:

Dec 6-8 Standard Garden Room:
Portofino Bay: $684.00
Portofino Bay plus parking: $726.60
Portofino Bay plus mini refrigerator: $699.98
Portofino Bay plus parking and mini fridge: $742.58

The numbers speak for themselves. Also, please don't point out the obvious by saying discounts exist.

 

[SmithSmith]

Oh and btw...we were at Disney the same time as you, along with many others on this board most who indicate standby lines were very long then. You may wish to look back at some other posts of others. I don't know which days you purported to be at MK but one thing I do know for sure is that dh and I skipped Jungle Cruise because the standby line at around 4:00pm was 45 minutes.

And just so you know...I was using Merriam Webster...inaccurate "not correct or exact : having a mistake or error" and bizarre "strikingly out of the ordinary: as

a : odd, extravagant, or eccentric in style or mode

b : involving sensational contrasts or incongruities

Imho both fit quite well thanks !!!

Part 2:

You said: "we were at Disney the same time as you, along with many others on this board most who indicate standby lines were very long then. You may wish to look back at some other posts of others. I don't know which days you purported to be at MK but one thing I do know for sure is that dh and I skipped Jungle Cruise because the standby line at around 4:00pm was 45 minutes."

My 1st reply: Please don't insinuate I'm lying.

My 2nd reply: I wouldn't know. I was always waking up from a nap around 4:00pm. I didn't think it wise to be in the parks then, you know because of the lines, the heat... and the lines. Also, if I were in the park then I wouldn't expect to ride any popular attraction without FP at the most crowded time of the day. I would go see my beloved Country Bears or go sing along at CoP or take it easy on the TTA instead.

My 3rd reply: The following is list of every attraction we visited (not including shows), when we visited them, and the wait time we experienced. You (or anyone else) can go ahead and corroborate my wait times with a Touring Plans subscription (which I thought you said you had).

Sept 26 MK morning:
Peter Pan's Flight (walk on) Rope drop
Haunted Mansion (walk on) immediately following PPF
Winnie the Pooh (7 minutes) About 9:30
Space Mountain (3 minutes) Just before 10:00 am
Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin (5 minutes) Around 10:10 am
TTA People Mover (walk on)
Mad Tea Party (1 minute)

Sept 26 EP evening:
Spaceship Earth (FP+)
Maelstrom (FP+)
Mission Space Green (5 minutes) 8:40 pm
Test Track (FP+)

Sept 27 AK morning:
Kilimanjaro Safaris (walk on) Rope drop

Sept 27 MK evening:
Splash Mountain (FP+)
POTC (FP+)
Big Thunder Mountain (15 minutes) Shortly after 9 pm
Jungle Cruise (15 minutes) Just before 9:30 pm
7DMT (FP+) After wishes
Enchanted Tales (10 minutes) Start of EMH
Little Mermaid (walk on)
Dumbo (walk on)
Barn Stormer (walk on)
Carousel (walk on)
IASW (walk on)
Haunted Mansion (walk on)

Sept 28 HS evening:
Rock N Roller Coaster (FP+)
Tower of Terror (FP+)
The Great Movie Ride (5 minutes) 9:40 pm
Tower of Terror (5 minutes) 10:10 pm (Just before a delayed Fantasmic let out)
Star Tours (walk on) In a rain storm
Midway Mania (10 minutes) At closing, in a rain storm

Sept 29 HS morning:
Rock N Roller Coaster (walk on) Rope Drop
Tower of Terror (FP+)
The Great Movie Ride (5 minutes) 9:45 am
Star Tours (FP+)
Star Tours (5 minutes) 10:30 am
Midway Mania (FP+)

Sept 30 EP morning:
Test Track (walk on) Rope Drop
Mission Space Orange (2 minutes) right after TT
Sum of all thrills (5 minutes) 9:00 am
Nemo (FP+)
Living with the Land (10 minutes) 10:30 am
Soarin (FP+)

Oct 1 AK morning:
Wanted Dinosaur at RD but it wasn't running yet.
Expedition Everest (walk on twice) Shortly after RD
Dinosaur (walk on twice) around 9:45 am

Oct 1 MK evening:
Space Ranger Spin (FP+)
7DMT (FP+)
Haunted Mansion (walk on) 8:40 pm

P.s. You've twice now never explained why you're comparing EP costs to a throwaway. I'm still wondering about that...

P.p.s Inaccurate is misstating FACTS. I'm giving my OPINION.

 

[wdw4rfam]

We have been regulars at WDW since 2000. We have loved Disney all these years, considered it our home away from home. My dd did 2 tours in the CP. Prior to the implementation of FP+, we were planning on buying a DVC.

We were just in Orlando in November. We went to all four of the WDW parks and the two Universal parks. Prior to that we'd been there six months ago and done the same trip, plus visited Sea World. (We also visited DL this year.)

The tipping point has been reached for us for WDW after the most recent trip. The tipping point was a combination of the debacle that was our FP+/Magic Bands and the high quality of the Universal parks (particularly the new Harry Potter area) in comparison to the lack of new rides/areas at WDW.

FP+/Magic Bands mess: Even at the non-peak time we've been there this year, we can go on approx 30% fewer rides now. The first time, the Bands worked well, had no problem. This time, months later? Tipping point! The system has gone downhill. There were 4+ hours of effort and stress involved in getting "the system" to accept my tickets to make the FP (and by the time it was straightened out, the popular attractions were all gone). It was soooo frustrating (especially since 4 CMs basically threw up their hands and said, "Sorry, can't help you. Call back again later." Seriously, that's what we were told. When I sent in a complaint, the manager who called me back admitted to me that she still expects her staff to behave "the old way" but that is not universal (pardon the pun) any more. Okaaaay. So why I am a paying through the nose if I can't have an expectation of high quality, especially when I'm calling you to fix a problem with YOUR system, that I have no choice but to use now?

Compounding the stress, once we go to the parks, it turned out that my Magic Band was totally screwed up and we wasted quite a bit of time each day waiting for them to "fix it". Talk about losing the feeling of magic! Wasting time (30--60 minutes each day) waiting for them to fix their system -- without any apologies? Magic gone. We had trouble getting into our rooms one time for no apparent reason and were unable to get charging capabilities put on the bands. They were never fixed. There was definitely no magic in my Band.

The truth is if we weren't meeting foreign friends there, given our experience with being able to ride fewer rides and the hours/stress of just trying to buy tickets and make FP, I would have cancelled my trip after the 4th hour of trying to BUY tickets and make FP.

Park quality: The new Harry Potter area (the train, new Diagon Alley, Gringotts, etc) is far superior to anything Disney has done in a while. The new Fantasyland is cute, but really cannot compare to the new parts of Universal for older kids and adults. Even we who are not big Harry Potter fans thought those areas were phenomenal and far better than anything Disney has done in many years. We spent a full day at Universal's parks and only left because it started raining hard. Meanwhile, Hollywood Studios has fewer attractions each time we visit and Epcot is playing Captain Eo and the Soarin' film is a mess. We were able to take our foreign friends to Epcot, AK and HS (including seeing the Osborne Lights) in one day without any problems or feeling like we missed much except Fantasmic, (but no one was willing to get on line 1.5 hours in advance). Three parks in one day without missing much says a lot about the diminished quality.

Food: We were able to walk into restaurants at Universal and get service. We also ate at the Leaky Cauldron -- a counter service -- and the food was honestly very high quality and a staff member was greeting people at every table, asking them if they were happy. When's the last time that happened to me at Disney? When I tried to make reservations for table service at ANY park at WDW 60 or so days in advance, there was nothing. And there were no walk-ins available either. Two days of counter service mediocre food got old.

Bottom line: I shouldn't have to work this hard to go on vacation, especially a vacation that has less value (due to fewer rides and no access to decent restaurants) but a higher price than it did a year ago. And I don't WANT to have to plan my days months in advance. Just of no interest to me.


So for us, the tipping point for WDW has come. We are certainly not going to buy a DVC. We are going to stop using our Disney Visa and focus on another credit card with different rewards. The next time we go to Florida, we will be spending our theme park time and money at Universal and Sea World. If we want to go to Disney, I prefer to return to DL. I hope WDW changes for the better, but it won't be a vacation destination for us until the changes we need to tip us back happen.

I agree with this completely. We were considering DVC many times and now are so glad we didn't. We also found our tipping point this year, and it looks like we have been regulars about the same amount of time as you. We also went to universal and sea world this year and found those to be our 3 best , most relaxing days. It was so nice to be able to decide the same day when and where we wanted to eat. Nice to ride when we wanted, in September, with hardly any lines, like Disney used to be in September. Not saying that the crowd thing is Disneys fault, but it is a fact that universal was a lot less busy, and we rode and saw the entire park with no problem or FP, but think it's pretty awesome that if we had stayed on property, we would have skipped the lines completely. We spent 8 days at Disney and 2 days at universal and still felt we saw more of universal. For us, and all my kids, we all said sorry mickey, but we just aren't having fun anymore, but we did at universal. This was the third year in a row we came home disappointed in Disney, and I'm just not going to waste any more money trying to convince myself that next year will be better. we are going where we had fun this year, as well as last year, and that's universal.

 

[Luckybee]

Part 1:

If you keep attacking my opinion and throwing around accusations that I'm "inaccurate", or lying, or "mischaracterizing" then be prepared to back it up. I'm a bored housewife with all the time in the world. I...can...literally...do...this...all...day.

You said: "All I'm going to say at this point is that it is obvious that your mindset is such that you will ignore the facts to fit that mindset."

My reply: How do you not understand that there is no right or wrong answer? It's a preference!

You said: "If you really believe that 3 fp's are better than unlimited front of the line I cant say anything else about it."

My reply: Why are you trying to?! I gave you valid reasons why I prefer FP+, and you choose to repeatedly ignore them.

You said: "If you really believe that its better to pay more for a hotel because its "all inclusive" because otherwise you're being "nickel and dimed" even though you'll spend less for that hotel I cant say anything else."

My reply: I stay value. I consider moderate a splurge. I will never stay deluxe because it's a waste of money. So knowing that about me, (which I'm sure you'll choose to ignore... again) let's compare Universal's Value resort to Disney's value resorts and let's see if you're really spending less...

Dec 6-8 Standard rooms:
Pop Century $267.75
Cabana Bay $284.63
Cabana Bay plus parking fees $305.93
AoA $307.13
Cabana Bay with 1 day 1 park EP $412.31
Cabana Bay with 1 day 1 park EP plus parking $433.71
Cabana Bay with 1 day both parks EP $433.71
Cabana Bay with 1 day both parks EP plus parking $455.01

Those prices are just for 1 EP per person for length of stay. Now before you say "Why not just stay deluxe and get EPs for free?". Here's why:

Dec 6-8 Standard Garden Room:
Portofino Bay: $684.00
Portofino Bay plus parking: $726.60
Portofino Bay plus mini refrigerator: $699.98
Portofino Bay plus parking and mini fridge: $742.58

The numbers speak for themselves. Also, please don't point out the obvious by saying discounts exist.

I wont waste my time debating with you further ,as I said "I can't say anything else "given your perspective but you really did manage to attempt once again to skew the numbers. Loews Portofino is sold out now for Dec 6(today) to the 8th. Not surprising that when you checked it today that the pricing was much higher than normal
Try next weekend...price for Loews including express pass $335 nightly(those same express passes for 2 days for 2 people for those days are $99 and $89....a total savings of $376) ...oops don't forget to add $40 or so for the usual hotel extra's....you know those things most hotels charge extra for, then there is pop(and as you feel about luxury properties I would never stay at a value since that wouldn't be a holiday for me and a waste of my money) ..$175....now I have to admit that Im doing something I would normally never do, that is, compare a motel with a 5* luxury resort but since you mentioned it.....so for a 1 night stay one would actually be getting the room for free at the luxury property and for a 2 night stay the price would be comparable to a 2 night stay at the budget one....gee I wonder where the better value is

 

[pooch]

Going down the end of February and will spend 2 nights at cabana bay then move over to pop for 4 nights. I was under the impression that cabana bay is more on par with the Wdw moderates than the values. I will check it out and let you all know. My heart will always be at Disney but I think I have room for universal and sea world too. I look at it as 7 parks to visit each with its own unique things to enjoy. Where I spend my time on any given visit depends on which experience I'm in the mood for on that trip