What is your line in the sand?

[Suvadoo]

But why? That's my question. I purchase DVC discounted APs, which we then use for 14+ days of park tickets, split into two trips per year. Therefore the amount we pay for tickets, per day, is less than we pay to go to Busch Gardens. That doesn't mean that a one-day WDW ticket is cheaper than a one-day BG ticket, but they do offer me a discount and option that makes it less expensive on a per-day basis. I think most posters are talking about the value they receive, the way Disney prices the tickets makes the per-day cost very attractive for longer stays. And before you bring up the BG AP prices, I know they're cheaper that WDW APs. I don't want to spend 14+ days at BG - one day a year is enough.

From what I've seen, you exclusively talk about the 3 day base US tickets. Why is that? Aren't there other options?

Of course there are different options and if you want to go down the line and compare everything, I'll bet Universal is still less expensive than WDW. I randomly picked a 3 day base ticket. It was not intended to slant the information. I just pulled those numbers up. I agree that most posters find better value in their Disney vacation, but as I said before I responded to a specific post that said Disney was priced the same as Universal.
IMO a WDW trip is expensive, however, I always feel that I've gotten my money's worth prior to the FP+ implementation. Universal is also expensive. I am returning again in April, but it may be my last trip if the crowds and my impression of FP+ remains the same.
I have loved DLR and WDW since I was a child, and regardless of what happens to the parks, I will always have great memories. The theming in a Disney theme park is unparalelled.

You purchased DVC, that is a large investment, so yes you should get better discounts than someone who isn't a DVC.

 

[Andtototoo]

We have been regulars at WDW since 2000. We have loved Disney all these years, considered it our home away from home. My dd did 2 tours in the CP. Prior to the implementation of FP+, we were planning on buying a DVC.

We were just in Orlando in November. We went to all four of the WDW parks and the two Universal parks. Prior to that we'd been there six months ago and done the same trip, plus visited Sea World. (We also visited DL this year.)

The tipping point has been reached for us for WDW after the most recent trip. The tipping point was a combination of the debacle that was our FP+/Magic Bands and the high quality of the Universal parks (particularly the new Harry Potter area) in comparison to the lack of new rides/areas at WDW.

FP+/Magic Bands mess: Even at the non-peak time we've been there this year, we can go on approx 30% fewer rides now. The first time, the Bands worked well, had no problem. This time, months later? Tipping point! The system has gone downhill. There were 4+ hours of effort and stress involved in getting "the system" to accept my tickets to make the FP (and by the time it was straightened out, the popular attractions were all gone). It was soooo frustrating (especially since 4 CMs basically threw up their hands and said, "Sorry, can't help you. Call back again later." Seriously, that's what we were told. When I sent in a complaint, the manager who called me back admitted to me that she still expects her staff to behave "the old way" but that is not universal (pardon the pun) any more. Okaaaay. So why I am a paying through the nose if I can't have an expectation of high quality, especially when I'm calling you to fix a problem with YOUR system, that I have no choice but to use now?

Compounding the stress, once we go to the parks, it turned out that my Magic Band was totally screwed up and we wasted quite a bit of time each day waiting for them to "fix it". Talk about losing the feeling of magic! Wasting time (30--60 minutes each day) waiting for them to fix their system -- without any apologies? Magic gone. We had trouble getting into our rooms one time for no apparent reason and were unable to get charging capabilities put on the bands. They were never fixed. There was definitely no magic in my Band.

The truth is if we weren't meeting foreign friends there, given our experience with being able to ride fewer rides and the hours/stress of just trying to buy tickets and make FP, I would have cancelled my trip after the 4th hour of trying to BUY tickets and make FP.

Park quality: The new Harry Potter area (the train, new Diagon Alley, Gringotts, etc) is far superior to anything Disney has done in a while. The new Fantasyland is cute, but really cannot compare to the new parts of Universal for older kids and adults. Even we who are not big Harry Potter fans thought those areas were phenomenal and far better than anything Disney has done in many years. We spent a full day at Universal's parks and only left because it started raining hard. Meanwhile, Hollywood Studios has fewer attractions each time we visit and Epcot is playing Captain Eo and the Soarin' film is a mess. We were able to take our foreign friends to Epcot, AK and HS (including seeing the Osborne Lights) in one day without any problems or feeling like we missed much except Fantasmic, (but no one was willing to get on line 1.5 hours in advance). Three parks in one day without missing much says a lot about the diminished quality.

Food: We were able to walk into restaurants at Universal and get service. We also ate at the Leaky Cauldron -- a counter service -- and the food was honestly very high quality and a staff member was greeting people at every table, asking them if they were happy. When's the last time that happened to me at Disney? When I tried to make reservations for table service at ANY park at WDW 60 or so days in advance, there was nothing. And there were no walk-ins available either. Two days of counter service mediocre food got old.

Bottom line: I shouldn't have to work this hard to go on vacation, especially a vacation that has less value (due to fewer rides and no access to decent restaurants) but a higher price than it did a year ago. And I don't WANT to have to plan my days months in advance. Just of no interest to me.


So for us, the tipping point for WDW has come. We are certainly not going to buy a DVC. We are going to stop using our Disney Visa and focus on another credit card with different rewards. The next time we go to Florida, we will be spending our theme park time and money at Universal and Sea World. If we want to go to Disney, I prefer to return to DL. I hope WDW changes for the better, but it won't be a vacation destination for us until the changes we need to tip us back happen.

 

[W.E.D.]

Wonky math, don't you think, to include transportation costs in the London breakdown but not the WDW breakdown?

Wouldn't you have to add the price of airfare from Iowa to WDW into your $3400 number - bringing that total well over $4,000 (to be comparing apples to apples)?

I also think, since you are blown away by this deal, that if you are interested in world travel you should look at package trips, not just stand-alone hotel prices. By far the cheapest way to travel to many European cities is to look for a package, where airlines and hotels (and sometimes other entities) band together to create more business by offering mutual discounts. That way they fill their seats and rooms without either taking the full hit of the discount. I have traveled to Paris and London this way and had savings that would apparently be "amazing!" to you. You don't always get a deluxe hotel, but sometimes you get lucky.

Yes. They aren't adding flights into the equation.
I knew, after a little research on the Hotel and it's location, that it was in fact and "amazing" deal, which is why we took it. Packages are certainly the way to go when traveling overseas.

 

[W.E.D.]

When did I imply that WED was lying?!

If anything I was implying that they got a heck of a bargain!

I knew you weren't.

And yes it was!!

 

[W.E.D.]

Just telling you how I was reading it. Your repeated shock and surprise (based on your faulty math) came across as sarcastic to me.

I agree that they got a great deal - but, if you're lucky, you can come across those.

For the record, I've stayed at that hotel (for far less than $550/night) and loved it!

It was an unbelievable experience, SirDuff.

 

[ChancesAre]

I guess we've reached our tipping point. I hadn't really thought of it that way. But we decided about a month ago to go to Orlando for a week mid December and there's no way we would be able to get the reservations we want and the FP+ we would want at WDW this late in the game.

Plus, our last visit in December '12 was less than magical. We even have three anytime fastpasses waiting for us at guest services...and we chose to do only Universal this time. Our family of now seven plus two guests overwhelmingly voted to do Universal this trip.

We are attending a MVMCP one night. But Universal is getting all of our hotel stay (Portifino yay!) and our restaurant experiences. We've always done a split stay with WDW/Universal in years past, but we are done with that until things improve to our satisfaction at WDW.

Just our experience and opinion. Not knocking anyone who prefers WDW still.

 

[SmithSmith]

I knew you weren't.

And yes it was!!

Thanks for clarifying... again.

I was only trying to figure out room costs based on what info you gave, if I wasn't right, I figured you would come along and say so. I'm sorry, I didn't mean for it to become "a thing".

 

[CTDisneyfan816]

I guess we've reached our tipping point. I hadn't really thought of it that way. But we decided about a month ago to go to Orlando for a week mid December and there's no way we would be able to get the reservations we want and the FP+ we would want at WDW this late in the game.

Plus, our last visit in December '12 was less than magical. We even have three anytime fastpasses waiting for us at guest services...and we chose to do only Universal this time. Our family of now seven plus two guests overwhelmingly voted to do Universal this trip.

We are attending a MVMCP one night. But Universal is getting all of our hotel stay (Portifino yay!) and our restaurant experiences. We've always done a split stay with WDW/Universal in years past, but we are done with that until things improve to our satisfaction at WDW.

Just our experience and opinion. Not knocking anyone who prefers WDW still.

Well I am deeply offended! Kidding of course!

I am a fan of both Universal and Disney. I think what would make me go less would be if the crowds got so big that it wasn't worth going. As it is I avoid super crowded times (holidays, spring break, etc.) I went this July because I thought soon after I would have a kidney transplant (now it looks like early 2015) but normally I avoid summer because kids are out of school.

 

[Luckybee]

Also, the best Uni offers is a restricted express pass for certain AP holders.

Im not sure this is correct. One can purchase either restricted express passes or unlimited express passes. Of course there is an extra cost for either, and the unlimited is more expensive but this is something that has great value esp at busy times.

 

[Luckybee]

Of course there are different options and if you want to go down the line and compare everything, I'll bet Universal is still less expensive than WDW. I randomly picked a 3 day base ticket. It was not intended to slant the information. I just pulled those numbers up. I agree that most posters find better value in their Disney vacation, but as I said before I responded to a specific post that said Disney was priced the same as Universal.
IMO a WDW trip is expensive, however, I always feel that I've gotten my money's worth prior to the FP+ implementation. Universal is also expensive. I am returning again in April, but it may be my last trip if the crowds and my impression of FP+ remains the same.
I have loved DLR and WDW since I was a child, and regardless of what happens to the parks, I will always have great memories. The theming in a Disney theme park is unparalelled.

You purchased DVC, that is a large investment, so yes you should get better discounts than someone who isn't a DVC.

And as I said in another post if one factors in the cost of a hotel, certainly in the deluxe range, the U hotels are significantly better(both in price and as a true deluxe.....at least Portofino is at between half and 2/3 the cost.

 

[Luckybee]

True. But, if you find that, because of your personal preferences, you have more to do in Universal's two parks than in WDW's four, you might find two parks of more value than four parks.

No idea how many people might feel that way, just saying that value is subjective and one person's apple might be another person's orange.

^^This^^

 

[SmithSmith]

Im not sure this is correct. One can purchase either restricted express passes or unlimited express passes. Of course there is an extra cost for either, and the unlimited is more expensive but this is something that has great value esp at busy times.

There's 3 levels of Annual Pass: Power, Preferred, and Premier. The Premier Pass is the only one that comes with an Express Pass (not unlimited), and it is only available for use after 4pm.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

I'm here now and here's my take:

Too many people. It's hard to have the magic when you feel like you're in a mob scene. truly, the best day we've had so far is Tuesday, which was a MVMCP day, it rained; sometimes very hard, and was great crowd-wise.
FP+ - Liked it for what it was. I appreciated the fps for the long line attractions, was very happy with the MSEP and FoF fps, and pretty much blew a few off. For instance, today, we didn't use it at all at Epcot. When we went the first day, we used Soarin, Nemo and Crush while we single ridered TT. Got a great spot in the Cantina for Illuminations and saw Neil Patrick Harris. Crowds not too bad. MK is just crazy. Tomorrow we're going to give AK a whirl. 3 fps and hope to be done in 3 - 4 hours. HS wasn't too bad.
Unless the crowds die down a little, it's going to be hard to keep going back.
Also we are staying at OKW, and the place is pretty dirty. Day #2 a housekeeper knocked on the door and gave us a bag of towels and we haven't seen her since. But that's another story.

 

[Luckybee]

There's 3 levels of Annual Pass: Power, Preferred, and Premier. The Premier Pass is the only one that comes with an Express Pass (not unlimited), and it is only available for use after 4pm.

But one can supplement the annual pass with express pass on the days they feel they might need it. So theoretically for $214 (with a few blackout dates) or $294 (without blackout dates) one can buy a full year of park to park admission(the pass with limits, the limits which are after 4 and 1 of ea ride per visit....a whole lot more than 3) are only $434....and then for $35 and up for the passes not including express(depending on date and whether one wants unlimited or one ride of each ride) they can buy express passes. Of course the express passes don't limit you to only 3 rides. Don't think I need to do a cost comparison on this one since I think it is kinda obvious. I mean my goodness, a throwaway room at D for JUST 3 attractions would be more for us than unlimited EP's for a day in May (but I'd rather stay at Loews Portofino for a night or 2 so we wont need to buy EP's )...oh and for Florida residents those ap's I mentioned above are only $189 ,$259 and $384 respectively.

 

[Minniesgal]

We have actually gone the other way. We have always been huge Disney and Universal fans but we really getting over Universal. The parks are really small and are starting to get extremely saturated. Lines can be nuts. We stayed at the hard rock Hotel last trip and honestly didn't rate it. It felt a bit like A Holiday Inn at twice the price. The food some places are nice mainly outside the parks but we weren't impressed with the food inside the parks. Next trip we will be staying at our DVC and maybe not doing any parks but if we do some they will be Disney. I think there is such a thing as over exposure

 

[FlipHipster]

I'm here now and here's my take:

Too many people. It's hard to have the magic when you feel like you're in a mob scene. truly, the best day we've had so far is Tuesday, which was a MVMCP day, it rained; sometimes very hard, and was great crowd-wise.
FP+ - Liked it for what it was. I appreciated the fps for the long line attractions, was very happy with the MSEP and FoF fps, and pretty much blew a few off. For instance, today, we didn't use it at all at Epcot. When we went the first day, we used Soarin, Nemo and Crush while we single ridered TT. Got a great spot in the Cantina for Illuminations and saw Neil Patrick Harris. Crowds not too bad. MK is just crazy. Tomorrow we're going to give AK a whirl. 3 fps and hope to be done in 3 - 4 hours. HS wasn't too bad.
Unless the crowds die down a little, it's going to be hard to keep going back.
Also we are staying at OKW, and the place is pretty dirty. Day #2 a housekeeper knocked on the door and gave us a bag of towels and we haven't seen her since. But that's another story.

We are here as well and have similar feelings. Personally I haven't felt like it was super crowded, but the lines for the headliners are nuts. Disney's posted wait times for headliners are totally unreliable. It is terrible at DHS and Epcot. Everything else was pretty much walk on. Yesterday 1hr after opening Soarin' had an 80 min line. I didn't feel like it was crowded but everyone was coming through the FP+ line and SB just wasn't moving. I think they really need to do something different with FP+ in Epcot and DHS but they won't. There just aren't enough good rides to make it work like MK. We never have problem waiting in SB before, except that now they are way longer and totally unpredictable.

DHS was a bust for us Tuesday except for out TSMM and Frozen FP's. . Again, didn't feel like it was crowded but super long lines for everything except Star Tours. If you just want to shop and sit around, I guess it's awesome. .

After getting very little done at DHS, everyone vetoed DAK and we went to Universal instead. We rode almost everything in the parks multiple times. Had a fantastic lunch at Mythos and great dinner at Hard Rock. We rode Escape from Gringotts 4x with no wait mid morning. If I knew how much everyone would enjoy Uni I wouldn't have even wasted a day at DHS.

We were thinking of upgrading to AP's and make 2 more trips this year, but that idea got dumped right away. It sounds like next trip is going to be 1, maybe 2 MK days, 1 Epcot day and the rest of the week Universal and Legoland. We used to spend everyday of a 8-10 day trip at a Disney park. We are supposed to be at MK right now but nobody felt like going. Really? All I keep hearing is "when are we going back to Universal?" I love Epcot but I would seriously consider skipping that park as well until something changes. Can't wait for the survey!!

 

[NJlauren]

I am finding this topic very interesting. I guess everyone has a tipping point. This will be my first trip with my DD and i plan on going with her about every other year. I guess a tipping point could be if I don't like Disney with a child? Other wise I'm not sure what could keep me from coming back, I wont go every year or multiple times a year, but I love it and want to continue to go.

I will say a tipping point could be up keep, i don't even see this as an issue at this point, but if they stopped cleaning, stopped updating the rides I might cut back on trips to even less frequent as that is a huge thing for me. I do agree with another poster the New Harry Potter area at Universal is as good or better then any recent attractions at Disney. I am hopping the changes at HS will improve it to compete with Universal, but only time will tell and I also love Universal so I am ok with being amazing too!

I think cost is also always a factor but i seem to be able to budget to make it work. I don't love the over planning that i am doing now with ADR 180 days out and FP+ 60 days out but you need to embrace change so I am trying

 

[Suvadoo]

I am finding this topic very interesting. I guess everyone has a tipping point. This will be my first trip with my DD and i plan on going with her about every other year. I guess a tipping point could be if I don't like Disney with a child? Other wise I'm not sure what could keep me from coming back, I wont go every year or multiple times a year, but I love it and want to continue to go.

I will say a tipping point could be up keep, i don't even see this as an issue at this point, but if they stopped cleaning, stopped updating the rides I might cut back on trips to even less frequent as that is a huge thing for me. I do agree with another poster the New Harry Potter area at Universal is as good or better then any recent attractions at Disney. I am hopping the changes at HS will improve it to compete with Universal, but only time will tell and I also love Universal so I am ok with being amazing too!

I think cost is also always a factor but i seem to be able to budget to make it work. I don't love the over planning that i am doing now with ADR 180 days out and FP+ 60 days out but you need to embrace change so I am trying

I guess you haven't seen the thread about the dirty bathrooms:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3356671

 

[disneyholic family]

wow, now i have proof that WDW has become insanely expensive..

i just priced up a trip to tokyo disney resort and it came out much cheaper for us than a trip to WDW.

That was never true in the past (and i've priced it many times).

so now i just have to convince the troops to head east this time, instead of west.

I suppose if i tell them it's the only disney vacation we can afford, they'll go along....

(i wonder how much disneyland in california works out to be...off to crunch some more numbers)..

 

[SmithSmith]

But one can supplement the annual pass with express pass on the days they feel they might need it. So theoretically for $214 (with a few blackout dates) or $294 (without blackout dates) one can buy a full year of park to park admission(the pass with limits, the limits which are after 4 and 1 of ea ride per visit....a whole lot more than 3) are only $434....and then for $35 and up for the passes not including express(depending on date and whether one wants unlimited or one ride of each ride) they can buy express passes. Of course the express passes don't limit you to only 3 rides. Don't think I need to do a cost comparison on this one since I think it is kinda obvious. I mean my goodness, a throwaway room at D for JUST 3 attractions would be more for us than unlimited EP's for a day in May (but I'd rather stay at Loews Portofino for a night or 2 so we wont need to buy EP's )...oh and for Florida residents those ap's I mentioned above are only $189 ,$259 and $384 respectively.

You see an express pass for some attractions as the better pass. I see a FP that allows access to all popular attractions as the better pass. Agree to disagree.

The prices you quoted are excluding tax and the parking fee for the first visit. Once you factor in those costs to the Uni Florida resident premier pass then the cost is only $89 less than the Disney Florida resident annual pass. $89 bucks more and you get twice the parks and much longer operating hours. Seems like the better deal to me.

I'm not sure why you're comparing Express pass to throwaway rooms. Every guest has access to FP+, no need to book a throwaway or even stay onsite.

To me, Universal's pricing is an illusion because of hidden costs. For example, at the resorts they charge for daily parking, airport transfers, and in room refrigerators. Parking and fridge fees adds about $40 more per night. Also, Cabana Bay is excluded from the complimentary express pass. People would be outraged if Disney did the same and charged off site and value resort guests for FP+.