What is wrong with the Mayor of Baltimore?

[abk96]

So that's our choice.
Let them beat our brains in or they don't do their jobs??

How about this, how about you ask why the cops aren't wanted. How about the cities address police brutality from the start so maybe folks don't think that it matters?

No one wants to do that though?

I would love it if you would tell Mayor Nutter that you don't need or want police in your neighborhood. You would all be begging for help soon there after.

 

[eliza61]

What a disgrace!

What's disgraceful about it?
My dad served his country honorably, received a silver star in the Korean war and then came home and couldn't even go to the movie theater because he was black. He served the NYC police department for over twenty years, received to commendations and knew full well that NYC had a police brutality problem.

 

[cabanafrau]

And about those gangs who supposedly came together against the rioting - seriously, how low are our expectations of people that we can look at that and say wow, even those violent, drug dealing, murderous groups are coming together to try to stop the violence!

I admit that at first I also thought, man that is really something for these two gangs who hate each other to come together. Then the more I thought about it, the guys in these gangs are a big part of why these people have no morals!! They are contributing to the rioting indirectly by doing what they do every day in these neighborhoods. They corrupt young boys by inducting them into their gangs. So no, I'm not impressed by the gangs coming together.

Yep, how quickly everyone is to jump all over anything the mayor says, does, doesn't do because she's a political figure and therefore to be distrusted. Yet how quickly we're willing to embrace gang members as warm, fuzzy kittens, just looking to be helpful and all.

First of all they were probably looking out for their own families, neighborhoods, etc. Second, it's probably not good for their business if their neighborhood flatlines. Third, and probably most important, what a brilliant move to add to their power base by engendering gratitude in the neighborhood -- and grab credibility by gaining media endorsement. Politicians aren't the only political power players out there.

 

[luvsJack]

Are you from Philly too?

No

 

[abk96]

Not at all and if you listen to the African American media outlets you will see the vast majority are calling for peace
But we understand the anger.

Like I said, basically after this nothing will change. Baltimore will not even address that they could possibly have a police brutality problem. Freddie Grey's family at most will get a settlement from the city of Baltimore, nothing will happen to the cops unless the justice department possibly brings civil rights charges against them and this summer another unarmed African American will get killed by police and we'll start the entire cycle all over again.

Tell me was there ever a post decrying the way Mr. Grey was treated???

We don't even know what happened to him!! I can't stand it when people just assume things.

 

[abk96]

No

I edited my post for you.

 

[sunshinehighway]

And about those gangs who supposedly came together against the rioting - seriously, how low are our expectations of people that we can look at that and say wow, even those violent, drug dealing, murderous groups are coming together to try to stop the violence!

I admit that at first I also thought, man that is really something for these two gangs who hate each other to come together. Then the more I thought about it, the guys in these gangs are a big part of why these people have no morals!! They are contributing to the rioting indirectly by doing what they do every day in these neighborhoods. They corrupt young boys by inducting them into their gangs. So no, I'm not impressed by the gangs coming together.

Isn't it better to hope that something clicks with at least some of them and they draw the same parallels?
I'd rather look at them trying to stop the rioting as hope, hope that people see a better way to get their voices heard.
I see these gangs as horrible, sucking everything they can from these neighborhoods but if they can stop and think differently, even for a short time, isn't that positive? Isn't that worth more than accusing them of being in line with ISIS ( which you didn't do but was done, unapologetically and with supporters on this thread).

 

[eliza61]

I would love it if you would tell Mayor Nutter that you don't need or want police in your neighborhood. You would all be begging for help soon there after.

LOL, I try and stay pretty active in my community. I more work with the poor through my church but Mayor Nutter has heard my mouth a time or two. I do have to give both him and Police Commissioner Ramsey credit though, after Ferguson they didn't stick their heads in the sand, they publically acknowledge that some of Philly's finest are out of control and set up a task force to work on the solution.

They kind of had to, with the pope coming and they DNC next year they've got a lot riding on it.

 

[cabanafrau]

This is definitly one area where Eliza and I have always agreed. There is a different mind set when a cop is dealing with a young black man. Believe it if you want to but I know its true and both of my sons are white. When younger ds was with his best friend (who is black) they were stopped for stupid reasons and treated differently. DS was fearful of things getting well out of hand. Not to the point of shooting here, but too far for a couple of teen boys just out riding around. I can certainly see where she would fear for her sons in a big city like Philly and having to deal with the police there. And btw, HERE, it has nothing to do with the race of the officer.

Not true universally, and not helpful to put it out there as if it is. I'm absolutely behind eliminating the menace of any police officer who misuses their authority. I know plenty who do not and would be a tremendous loss to the communities they do indeed serve and protect.

 

[abk96]

What's disgraceful about it?
My dad served his country honorably, received a silver star in the Korean war and then came home and couldn't even go to the movie theater because he was black. He served the NYC police department for over twenty years, received to commendations and knew full well that NYC had a police brutality problem.

Your dad was a cop and you talk so nasty about what he did for a living.

 

[luvsJack]

Are you from Philly too?

If not you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to this city.

We have one of the best departments around. They have lowered the murder rate here drastically. Hard work and dedication sure pays off.

I know what I am talking about when I am saying "police in general", its not just in Philly, its all over. I am glad they have accomplished that in your city. There are many cities whose police departments have made great strides in the protection of their citizens. Doesn't mean they don't treat young black men differently. They do.

 

[luvsJack]

Not true universally, and not helpful to put it out there as if it is. I'm absolutely behind eliminating the menace of any police officer who misuses their authority. I know plenty who do not and would be a tremendous loss to the communities they do indeed serve and protect.

She lives in the north, I live in the south. And both can say that young black men are treated differently.

I am not saying that all police officers misuse their authority. I know plenty that are wonderful officers of the law. But that doesn't change the many that treat the young black guys differently. I have seen it, my son experienced it while with his friend. You can deny it till the cows come home, doesn't make it untrue.

 

[abk96]

I know what I am talking about when I am saying "police in general", its not just in Philly, its all over. I am glad they have accomplished that in your city. There are many cities whose police departments have made great strides in the protection of their citizens. Doesn't mean they don't treat young black men differently. They do.

You should watch "The O'Reilly Factor". He tells you the facts with no spin.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

To say it is not a race issue is ridiculous.

BPD is a racially diverse police force and no one is making the distinction between white officers and black officers. No one in Baltimore is saying "white cops are bad, black cops are good." The anger is directed towards the police in general, all of them.

Really? And do you really think it's "police vs. impoverished community"?

The police don't leave their families to go to work everyday just so they can gang up on the impoverished. They are doing their job trying to protect the citizens from drug dealers, murderers, etc. Its the most "Monday morning quarterbacked" job around.

Yes. And if you're interested in why I am of the opinion that police brutality is a real issue, I copy and pasted a post of mine from an old thread:

I'm white. My brother is a cop and my father is a retired cop. For the majority of my life I've lived and worked in a predominantly black area. And, much like a PP, I have the same general feeling that police are not trustworthy.

Posters on this thread, and people in general, seem to fall into one of two categories in how they perceive police (police as a whole, not individuals): A) Most officers are good people but there will always be a few bad apples, or, B) Surely there are still a few good officers, but overall there is a systemic problem of them abusing their power and they cannot be trusted. I think which category a person falls into depends less on that person's skin color and more on the police environment in their area. If you have lived your whole life in a place where the police you've encountered are easy-going, friendly neighborhood officers, you'll hear about police brutality incidents on the news and think "That's one of the bad apples." If you live in an area where the police act like an oppressive force looking for and causing problems, you'll think "Not surprising, this is what cops do."

I try really hard to give police the benefit of the doubt and remind myself of the 'few bad apples' possibility but, the more time goes on, and the more opportunities I've had to witness police interactions firsthand, the harder it is for me to believe that. For a few years I worked in a club that had 8-12 on-duty officers working as security each night and believe me, not a shift went by that I wasn't thankful to be one of the 'us' (in the eyes of the officers, being that I was an employee) versus being one of 'them' (the customers). There were nights that the police showed up for their shifts hyped up about being "in a mood today" and "looking forward to beating the crap out of someone". I watched a cop escort a customer out of the building through a double door. Instead of walking the man through the one door that was open, the cop pushed him through the glass of the door that was closed. Not because the man was struggling, just because he could. The officers all had a good laugh about it later that night as we were waiting for the glass company to come out and replace the glass. I watched one of the officers punch a handcuffed man so hard in his face that several teeth came flying out of his mouth. The cop took off the cuffs and told the man to pick up his teeth or he would ticket him for littering. I watched the officers beat a man unconscious and then pepper spray him to get him to regain consciousness. The man, lying on the ground outside the building, would come to for a minute and then pass out again. At which point, the officer would resume dousing his face with pepper spray. When the ambulance showed up the officer turned them away even though the man was still unconscious. The ambulance left and the cop and victim continued the cycle of pepper spray, wake up, pass out, pepper spray... This went on for twenty minutes. And I can't tell you how many times the officers would sit around at the end of the night drinking, getting hammered, and then run out of the building and speed off in their cruisers when a call came in.

I could go on and on with examples but the point is, these are some of my experiences that shape my view of police mentality and their culture of brutality and abuse of power. None of these incidents ever made the news and none of the officers ever got in trouble. Honestly, I doubt any of these incidents were even reported. Around here, that's just what police do, and both sides understand that. If you're lucky enough to live in an area where the police really do protect and serve, that's great. But understand that different police departments have different environments and attitudes. To say that the black community mistrusts the police because they're black is incorrect. If a black community mistrusts the police it's because the police in their area have shown them over and over why they don't deserve to be trusted.

*For the purposes of this conversation, I'll add, that in the above examples of police abuse one officer was white, the rest were black.

It seems the president sees this as a racial issue...

"As National Guard troops responded to rioting in Baltimore, President Barack Obama said Tuesday that there have been too many troubling police interactions with black citizens across American in what he called "a slow-rolling crisis." But he said there was no excuse for rioters to engage in senseless violence."

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/28919925/obama-no-excuse-for-violence-in-baltimore

He noted that minority communities experience higher rates of police brutality. That means the problem lies between the citizens and the police. Baltimore citizens mistrust the black officers just as much as the white ones.

 

[abk96]

tipsy...I hope your dad and brother don't know how much you dislike them and their profession.

I'm greatful for their service. I'm sorry you talk so negatively towards them.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

tipsy...I hope your dad and brother don't know how much you dislike them and their profession.

I'm greatful for their service. I'm sorry you talk so negatively towards them.

Where did I say anything negative about my relatives in that post? I'm not going to profess blind allegiance to all police officers just because I have connections to a few. I prefer to look at things objectively. I don't dislike the profession -- they provide a necessary and vital service -- I dislike those who abuse their power within that profession.

 

[Goofy'slady]

tipsy...I hope your dad and brother don't know how much you dislike them and their profession.

I'm greatful for their service. I'm sorry you talk so negatively towards them.

Seems as though she's relaying experiences that her family members have told her as well as what she's witnessed with her own eyes. How is relaying information make a case that she isn't grateful for their professions? Sharing one's experiences is just that - sharing. I didn't glean from her examples that she disliked their professions. I got that within their professions there are some really messed up cops.

 

[Ceila]

LOL, I try and stay pretty active in my community. I more work with the poor through my church but Mayor Nutter has heard my mouth a time or two. I do have to give both him and Police Commissioner Ramsey credit though, after Ferguson they didn't stick their heads in the sand, they publically acknowledge that some of Philly's finest are out of control and set up a task force to work on the solution.

They kind of had to, with the pope coming and they DNC next year they've got a lot riding on it.

Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else, but I thought you live in NJ in the suburbs outside of Philly. Am I wrong?

 

[Ceila]

Sorry - double post!

 

[Gumbo4x4]

1) Freddie Gray was not committing a crime yet, somehow, he ended up dead at the hands of the BPD. That is what has sparked the outrage.
2) Incidents of police brutality in this community are not rare. It is an issue that has been ongoing for decades. There was an entire TV series based on the corruption of the BPD and their contentious relationship with West Baltimore, for goodness sake. Situations left to brew will eventually reach a boiling point and THAT is how the Freddie Gray incident "somehow" became the spark for an all out riot.
3) This is Baltimore. Murder reports ARE our nightly news. Perhaps our day to day killings aren't making headlines in Missouri, but that doesn't mean they aren't being reported.

And yet, if Freddy Gray had shot a bystander in a failed drive-by, nobody would be protesting anything, much less rioting. That's my point.

Whatever police issues you have in Baltimore (real or perceived), they absolutely pale in comparison to the murder & mayhem that occurs daily on the streets - seemingly with the tacit approval of everyone who is rioting now.