What is wrong with elementary age children?

[chris1gill]

I am very curious... We have DS 9 & DD 6... well, after four lousy years in public school, we finally moved DS into a very small private school... He'd had his fill of troublemakers in his classes, I'd had my fill of it as well... These weren't just troublemakers though, they were simply troubled... Last year, third grade just topped them all & poor DS was desparate for a change... This new school year is going GREAT for him, the first time since his kindergarten year. By the way we live in a small town in Massachusetts, not exactly your hotbed of troubled children...

Well, dear god... our DD has just entered first grade & believe it or not, she also has a troubled child in her class!!! He was suspended yesterday for doing something (I don't know what), but he even hit DD twice DD didn't say anything about that til she got home... so I don't know what he was suspended for, apparently that was another incident

Can I simply ask what the H*ll is wrong with children? Particularly young children? I'm in my mid-thirties & when I was that age I didn't dare go around hitting other children or anything else for that matter..... We cannot afford to send DD to the private school until she is in the 4th grade (as DS will be eligible for a different free charter school that is well rated)... I can't imagine poor DD going through this for the next three years, she'll start hating school just like DS did... I'm sorry to vent, I just don't know what else to do... I did speak with DD's teacher today about this.

 

[Cindy B]

There will be "troubled" kids no matter where you go. You can go to any school (public, private, parochial, charter, heck, even homeschool) and there will be children with issues.

Some of these "troublemakers" could be special education students, who have not been properly diagnosed or treated. I work in a middle school, and I have seen parents say that "I don't want my child near any special education students." Frankly, thats impossible. 20% of our student body of over a thousand students have issues.. thats the documented diagnosed ones. There are countless others that are not documented, diagnosed or treated. Every single class (even the enriched or "honors" classes have special education students in them)

Some students basically have parents that don't care. They curse, and shout at thier children. Some kids live in crackhouses, or have abusive parents.. some kids are homeless. I see these situations as well. Those situations can have a child act "out" as well.

Just remember all children are different, and behaviour is different for Every child.

 

[tiggerlover]

I am sorry to hear about the troubles you have had with the public school system. As a parent, it is very difficult to sit back and see our children go through uncomfortable situations. I think every school has their share of bad apples, just some more than others and I think a lot of the blame should be placed on the parents of these children. I have worked around a lot of children and I have been a long-time volunteer at a few schools so I have seen a lot of bad behavior first hand. I was volunteering in my DS's 3rd grade class this week and I already could see some trouble makers, thankfully the teacher is on to them and she said she would not tolerate their behavior. I think the morals and expectations of people today are not what they used to be when we were younger (for the record, I am 37). I think a lot of kids watch too much TV, play too many video games and spend too much time unsupervised and they are missing out on a lot of the values that were around when I was younger. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying kids should not watch TV or play video games, I am just saying there should be more attention from the parents to what kids are watching and doing and that they should teach their kids better morals than what is being portrayed on TV and in these games.

I do hope things in your DD's class improves and that this situation is handled with the school and that there isn't a repeat.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

There will be "troubled" kids no matter where you go. You can go to any school (public, private, parochial, charter, heck, even homeschool) and there will be children with issues.

I can agree that there might be troubled children anywhere. However, I would also suggest that non-public schools have much greater freedom to remove dangerous children when they are a detriment to everybody else's education.

And I'm not speaking of "troubled" in class. I'm particuarly thinking of 2 incidents of I know of from last year at our public Jr. High school. One, a 13 year old 7th grader was knocked to the ground by one student who then held him down with a boot on his neck while another student stole his billfold. The 2nd was a student (son of a District employee btw) who broke INTO the Jr. High building, smashing windows, trophy cases, computers and anything else that caught his fancy. All of these students served minimum suspensions and are now back on campus.

It seems to me that too many kids don't have that "line" that they won't cross anymore. In my High School, bad kids snuck off campus during lunch period and ran up to the grocery store to buy candy. It would never have occurred to them to Mug fellow students and destroy the school.

 

[tiggerlover]

Originally posted by Toby'sFriend
It seems to me that too many kids don't have that "line" that they won't cross anymore. In my High School, bad kids snuck off campus during lunch period and ran up to the grocery store to buy candy. It would never have occurred to them to Mug fellow students and destroy the school.

I think you are right, a lot of kids just don't know that a "line" exists.

 

[Crankyshank]

I think the problem with a lot of kids nowadays is the lack of fear and/or respect for authority.

If they aren't afraid of what will happen to them if they act up, then they're going to have no qualms about doing bad things.

I've encountered so many kids from otherwise good families with huge disciplinary issues.

 

[peachgirl]

However, I would also suggest that non-public schools have much greater freedom to remove dangerous children when they are a detriment to everybody else's education.

 

[jinxed]

I had some neighbors that where it was hard to tell who was the adult and who were the children. The parents encouraged violence and bullying. The mother would say nasty things to my children, tailgate me, and yell things out the window. Her son even threw a hammer at my son while the mother stood there. (the police got involved in this) My youngest daughter (10 yr old) is in the same grade as their youngest daughter and every year, she worries if they will be in the same homeroom because the other girl picks on her. (Sorry, I found myself needing to vent too.)

In some cases I don't blame the child for their behavior, but the parents. I am sorry you are going through this. It is horrible for us parents and our children to have to deal with troublemakers. I often wonder why some children become this way and the only thing I can think of is because a lot of mothers have to work nowadays, and aren't around as much as our mother's were.

TV adds to the problems too. Look at TV and life in general say 30 years ago and compare it to today. We had bullying and troublemakers then too, but it wasn't as severe, it was more name calling, rather than physical. (sticks and stones may break my bones....etc)

Could keep on adding more, but time for me to get to my other job. Take care and good luck.

 

[Cindy B]

Originally posted by Toby'sFriend
I can agree that there might be troubled children anywhere. However, I would also suggest that non-public schools have much greater freedom to remove dangerous children when they are a detriment to everybody else's education.



It seems to me that too many kids don't have that "line" that they won't cross anymore. In my High School, bad kids snuck off campus during lunch period and ran up to the grocery store to buy candy. It would never have occurred to them to Mug fellow students and destroy the school.

Unfortunately, the public school has to, by law, educate students unless alternative education plans need to be made. The alternate students have to go through a long, large, drawn out disciplinary action, with psychiatric review for any student to be considered alternative . Of course with this, the school district moves VERY SLOWLY...since the alternate school budget/bussing is out of there budget.

My school has a self contained classroom for students with known disciplinary, and emotional issues. This classroom has these students.

AS for troublemakers, like fighting, mugging, stealing.. those things happen. The principals do thier best to be proactive in this, and definetely have thier eye on some students.

I had student breaking into schools and vandalizing back in the 1970's. That is nothing new.

 

[gr8tpanther]

IMO kids today have no fear of authority. Why? Cause they are more protected than the parents and adults! Why? Cause you can't do anything to them without fear of child welfare knocking on your door and they KNOW THIS!!! I have one! She doesn't care about anything or anyone and I have had counselors, therapists, PSYCHIATRISTS, you name it, we been there!

I even called the cops and they wouldn't come and do anything cause she didn't HURT anyone... but she will!

Kids today are out of control and we as parents have little say!!

 

[Cindy B]

Originally posted by gr8tpanther
IMO kids today have no fear of authority. Why? Cause they are more protected than the parents and adults! Why? Cause you can't do anything to them without fear of child welfare knocking on your door and they KNOW THIS!!! I have one! She doesn't care about anything or anyone and I have had counselors, therapists, PSYCHIATRISTS, you name it, we been there!

I even called the cops and they wouldn't come and do anything cause she didn't HURT anyone... but she will!

Kids today are out of control and we as parents have little say!!

I agree with you. I have student tell me that I can't tell them to sit down, because they could tell their parents to have the school board "fire me".

Incidentally, these troublemakers in my school are the ones with the largest special education issues. that may be just my school, but that is the case with me. My worst students with fighting, stealing, etc.. were special education students.

 

[bananiem]

I'm sorry but I think it all starts at home. Too many parents try to be their child's friend and let the child wear the pants in the family. Children DO want boundaries and a lot of the trouble makers are trying to figure out where those boundary lines are because nobody at home has taught them. Parents are supposed to teach their children what are appropriate behaviors before they even reach school age!! They need to stand behind the teachers too. A kid that knows getting in trouble at school will get them a reward is a kid headed for a lifetime of trouble.
Stepping down from my soapbox now...

 

[C.Ann]

Sadly, the only way you can keep your child from being exposed to "troubled" children or bullies, is to homeschool her.. If you aren't willing, able or equipped to do so, you (and she) will have to develop a much "thicker" skin and you will have to advocate for her when necessary..

Schools sure aren't like they used to be..

 

[disykat]

In my experience, we have about the same number of deeply troubled kids in classes as we did when I was a child. There will always be deeply troubled kids.

The difference I see is the number of kids who just generally don't know how to behave. They have no reason - they are not poverty stricken, they have parents who love them, no medical issues.... they just haven't been required to use basic self discipline and good manners. There is a lack of positive role models because their well behaved peers are now the minority.

As misbehaving becomes more the norm then the number of kids swinging over into the deeply troubled category starts to swing. I have a child who is a good boy, but very easily led astray by his peers. He's smart enough to know who the really "off" ones are and avoid them, but not to avoid the kids who are using what he sees as normal behavior. While I'm not buying "everyone else does it" as an excuse - he does have a point.

 

[gr8tpanther]

My daughter has behavior issues and is on meds and is in a special education program and definitely does get punished at home and has boundaries as done my normal child. Maybe SOME children's troubles begin in the home, but not all. I have done everything parentally possible to get my child on the right track, but she just does NOT care. And I can't make her care, I have tried. I have brought in people more experienced then myself with children like mine, but that didn't work. And sadly, the older she gets and the bigger she gets, the worse it gets. My child spends a majority of her time alone because that is the last punishment that I can resort to without going to jail!!!

 

[leighe]

I'm sorry but I think it all starts at home. Too many parents try to be their child's friend and let the child wear the pants in the family. Children DO want boundaries and a lot of the trouble makers are trying to figure out where those boundary lines are because nobody at home has taught them. Parents are supposed to teach their children what are appropriate behaviors before they even reach school age!! They need to stand behind the teachers too. A kid that knows getting in trouble at school will get them a reward is a kid headed for a lifetime of trouble.
Stepping down from my soapbox now...

I totally agree with this. I am a high school teacher. Sometimes I am the only person in that child's life that has told them "no" or who tells them something and expects them to listen or to comply with requests. Kids are way too educated about their rights and not educated enough about their responsibilities. I have called parents only to be told, "When they're at school they're your problem. I can't handle them at home." I always think, and that's why they are a problem at school - that attitude is the problem. I'm a relatively new teacher (I just started my 3rd year) and I can totally understand why most people only stay in the profession only 5 years or so. Schools are not failing because teachers aren't teaching or kids aren't able to learn - schools are failing because they have no control over their students and because so many kids come from such permissive and irresponsible homes. I can't undo the damage done by a lifetime of poor examples in one hour a day - no matter how much I care about that kid or how hard I work. I still think teaching is worthwhile though - there is always that one student you are really able to reach and help. Ok - off my soapbox now.

 

[RitaZ.]

Excellent points made here. I agree with Disykat about some students seeing disruptive behavior from peers and thinking that it's acceptable and thus may repeat it. I have had my younger DS tell me things like, "So and so did this and he didn't get in trouble".

I also agree with CindyB about all children being and behaving different.


I agree that "troubled" children can be found at any school, even those schools located in "better" neighborhoods/areas, probably in lesser numbers though. Private schools may not put up with unruly behavior as long as public schools do, but many children that are kicked out of public schools end up in private schools. The public schools do their best to "spread out" the students with known behavior problems, but chances are that there will be at least one child that is very disruptive and aggressive.

There was one child in my DD's K class last year that was very aggressive. The teacher was very good at handling him, but he would become aggressive if one of the volunteers told him to finish his work or to sit down. He threw a chair one time and knocked a table over, the teacher had to call for assistance on that one. This little boy was 5 yrs. old and he was STRONG. At the end of the year, we had an ice cream party for the class and while taking a class picture, he turned to another child and punched him on the face for no apparent reason. His father is a police officer. The sad part of this is that sometimes this boy would get blamed for things by the other students when he had nothing to do with it, I witnessed it myself.

What's the answer? I don't know.

 

[chris1gill]

Thank you, everyone for your perspectives... Unfortunately I think I am now more depressed than I was when I started my
thread I am just so sad that at this time I can't start our DD at the private school... it is just outrageously expensive & we felt like we were losing our DS to a system that did not care about him... he seemed ill equipped to handle all the unruliness... His number one goal at school is to have everyone quiet and to do their work That totally didn't jive with our local school... My MIL says that our DD will be okay, she's better equipped than our DS personality wise... she does have a point, but when it involves her safety I do get concerned (of course)... About homeschooling, I would love to homeschool both children, we offered our DS the opportunity to try the private school or go straight to homeschooling... he chose the private school & honestly it was apparently the better choice for him... The private school's all have their own rules regarding troubled children, but this particular school invites them NOT to come back... thank god is all I can say... I just wish I had the money for both children to go there now, we just have to wait and be patient, but it is so hard..

Thanks for putting up with my rambling, I just wish I knew I was doing the right & best things for my children.....

 

[hipporina]

I think the real question is "What is wrong with parents?!?" I know that there are a few situations where there is something wrong with the child and not the parent (for instance I know nothing about gr8tpanther's situation), but for the most part, the parents are to blame for children that do not behave. Too many parents don't take the time to parent their children and decide to let the school do it instead. It doesn't work like that.

We homeschool all of our children, for many reasons and this is one of them. I do not want them to be around, and more importantly learn, the bad behaviors that are so common in our schools. I know that it is not an option for everyone, but it is a solution to consider.

I hope that everything works out for you and your kids.

 

[Hannahsmom]

I think a large part of behavior problems at school have to do with the fact that these kids will not have any consequences for their behavior at home. When I was in school I always knew that I was on one team and my parents and teachers were on the other team. Sadly, this is not the case anymore. So many parents are actively working against teachers/administrators. I know every parent would like to think there child is perfect, but come on! A lot of parents refuse to take responsibility for their child's behavior and refuse to make the child take responsibility for their actions. There is always an excuse.

Phewwwwww...... I feel better.