What is wrong here?!

[Cool-Beans]

Very familiar with that. Also familiar with the fact that JCHAO doesn't consider pulling out IV's endangering themselves, but do feel that nurses that restrain these patients do it to keep the patients from inconveniencing them. How could you not know that. Jesus, what kind of pills are you on that you never experince emotions like anger and frustration? Maybe you've had the narcotic keys too long.

As I said, I do get frustrated, but not all that often. I do not get angry. I expect things like this to happen, as they do on a regular basis! So, it would be silly to get all worked up about something that I know happens. I just deal with it the best way I can, with as little difficulty for the patients as possible.

Believe it or not, it is possible to care about all your patients and want to help all of them without drugging yourself into it. It is kind of sad that you think the only way to achieve that would be to take drugs. And, believe it or not...I'm not the only one. I'm not super-nurse...there are many of us out there.

Pulling out IVs is dangerous if the patient is bleeding. Duh. Throwing things is dangerous for others. Getting out into the hallway where they could wreak havoc on other patients, also dangerous. Restraints are always in order. We, or the security guys, put them on and the doc issues the order later.

Do you let your violet patients run all around the floor harming whomever they please? Wth?

 

[Disney Doll]

Having just had bothte State and JCAHO in our recent past (how lucky are we???? ) I would have to agree that neither entity would have considered what you described (urinal throwing, IV pulling), Beans, a valid reason to restrain someone. Connecticut is the state where the child in the custody of a state institution died while in restraints, so the State is a bit "sensitive" to the restraint issue. A patient has to do a WAY lot more than pull an IV or throw a urinal to buy a restraint here. And Security won't touch a patient, but they will come up and watch you get the crap beat out of you so they can write a detailed report.

Here's what I think...I think the OP had a bad day and was letting off steam. I think you took her statements a bit too literally and now everyone is all pissed off and calling each other names.

Meanwhile, we're all going to go back to work tomorrow, an no one is going to slap the snot out of anybody, no matter what we may be thinking we want to do. And those of us who consider ourselves angels of mercy will continue to float around too.

Since this thread's lost any semblance of common sense, I think we should let it die a dignified death...how about we make it a DNR?

 

[WonderfulDreamer2]

You know what....you've got it all figured out so perfectly so you just keep patting yourself on the back for trying to help a colleague get things off her chest so that she CAN go back in there and be a good nurse. Continue to fight with yourself because I'm done with you...and it has nothing to do with me feeling you are right. I'm just tired of you. So buh-bye!

 

[Cool-Beans]

Having just had bothte State and JCAHO in our recent past (how lucky are we????

) I owuld have to agree that neither entity would have considered what you described (urinal throwing, IV pulling), Beans, a valid reason to restrain someone. Connecticut is the state where the child in the custody of a state insitution died while in restraints, so the State is a bit "sensitive" to the restraint issue.

Here's what I think...I think the OP had a bad day and was letting off steam. I think you took her statements a bit too literally and now everyone is all pissed off and calling each other names.

Meanwhile, we're all going to go back to work tomorrow, an no one is going to slap the snot out of anybody, no matter what we may be thinking we want to do. And those of us who consider ourselves angels of mercy will continue to float around too.

Since this thread's lost any semblance of common sense, I think we should let it die a dignified death...how about we make it a DNR?

No, OK, not in and of themselves. But a patient who is up, agitated, yelling and throwing things is different than a patient who just D/Cs their own IV...two different situations.

And how come all the agitated patients have no problem pulling out IVs and then others look at you like you're the grim reaper when you tell them you're going to take it out? Couple months ago a guy asked me, when I told him I was going to remove the catheter, "Can you stand the sight of blood?"

What we've been told is that if there is a danger to the patient, us, and/or other patients, restraints are fine. I don't know the laws inside out (and don't care...both the hospital and I have excellent lawyers...best in the world), but even on the crap we get it says that if there is danger, restrain the patient.

Heck, I recently restrained a frail old woman who kept getting out of bed. She was a wobbly one, and I worried that she'd fall.

I don't think the OP was just venting, but fine. If I DNR (do not rest) I'll be more tired than I'm going to be anyway.

This is very fresh in my mind, because I had a guy last week who had many, many problems. Heart attack, stroke +++...he kept throwing up and had tons of diarrhea, too. His nurse, from what I was told, was pretty rude to him about the vomit...kind of yelled at him for not getting his emesis basin (guy can hardly move! And he's dying!)

He was about 350 pounds, so the aides needed help cleaning him. She complained about it right there in the room, in front of him. The man had a lot of problems, but his hearing was fine.

When I was cleaning up his vomit #3, he kept trying to say something, but couldn't because of the stroke and the trach, so I handed him a pen and paper. He wrote, "Sorry." And he had tears in his eyes. I told him he had nothing to be sorry about, he was sick the one, and that's what people in the hospital do! They throw up! I wouldn't have taken this job if stuff like that bugged me in any way. He waved me down (I thought he wanted to try talking again) and hugged me and sobbed so much I had to tell him to stop, it wasn't good for him.

So, I'm pretty ticked off at nurses who don't care right now. But...

DNRing...y'all can have the last word.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

We have zero problems with accredidation, thanks. Patients who are a danger to themselves and others can be restrained...how can you not know that?

I didn't paint any picture of the OP's feelings. She stated them over and over, and not just in her original, "vent" post. Had she simply been venting, no problem. It's the part about nothing being done to the old guys with dementia, and the repeated posts about her not beating him up that get to me.

And if you read her posts, you'll see she has no idea what dementia is all about.

If you, too, feel that compassion is NOT beating up patients, then you should quit your job. And quit complaining about people who don't agree with that definition of "compassion."

In general, I do have compassion for rotten nurses. I just have more for the patients...and don't think those nurses should continue taking care of patients.

I think people are having a problem with your last statement.

You are categorizing the OP as a rotten nurse.

It is awesome that you don't have a bad bone in your body to not have one negative thought about a patient whatever their condition. I'm not sure I believe you though. B/c it almost sounds like you are perfect. You didn't say that...but that is okay.

You are taking her vent(s) far too literally and making assumptions about a person whom you don't even know.

I've seen MANY of your posts regarding nursing and you do come across as one of the most holiest nurses I have ever met. You probably don't think of yourself that way and you probably aren't that way...but your posts exhibit that very quality.

You may be an excellent nurse--but on this board..you do come across as better than everyone else. If you read all your posts from a 3rd party point of view...you *might* notice..but you might not. This is the observation of simple folks like me who aren't nurses and from those who are.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Believe it or not, it is possible to care about all your patients and want to help all of them without drugging yourself into it. It is kind of sad that you think the only way to achieve that would be to take drugs. And, believe it or not...I'm not the only one. I'm not super-nurse...there are many of us out there.

Seriously? You took her drug post literally?

 

[4cruisin]

To Mono~Rail:
I feel that I displayed compassion by not actually doing any physical harm in return despite what I may have thought.

Lady, I wish I could report you. If you really feel this way, I am terrified for all of your patients.

 

[Mono~rail]

Seriously? You took her drug post literally?

Lisa, stealing narcs is something in the nursing profession that does happen.

That was a pretty serious thing for someone to even allude to/joke about. I know the poster who said that was trying to illustrate that Cool-Beans is emotionless, but that was just taking it a little too far. Whoever said it should apologize IMO.

This thread just makes me so sad because nurses are in here beating each other up verbally. That's another dirty little secret of nursing - that nurses are mean to each other.

 

[susan1]

Oh please don't get me started, but here is my lastest story: (sorry so long)

Pt w/ severe alcohol dementia, much worse at night. Yells all night, wants 1:1 attention, and family refuses to hire a sitter. Dr. took all pain, and anxiety meds, because he gets too lethargic during the day



not at the patient or the nurse but because exactly the same thing happened to me the other night. the patient ranted and wandered all night with a bit of groping thrown in for good measure. i wish some of the day staff would do night duty! as for positioning yourself out of arms reach while inserting an i.v.on a confused patient, get real, you take what site is readily available and thank god. that doesnt mean that you have to accept abuse. i agree with the o.p.nurses should not have to put up with innapropriate behaviour without some consequence to the patient.

 

[Mono~rail]

I have a funny story about dementia/confusion/sundowners. We got new Horizon pumps. The first night we had them many of the confused pts thought they were at a casino! The alarms did sound like slot machines, but we didn't realize it until we had so many pts asking us casino questions. I went into one little old lady pts room and her pump was dinging and she asked me what she had won.

 

[Mono~rail]

OMG! I have another one! One night I had a really nice guy who had some confusion, and my fellow nurse who I'm friends with had a male pt about the same age who had some confusion as well (both pts had controlled schizophrenia). My pt had really gotten attached to me, and my friend's pt had gotten really attached to her. Early AM I let my pt come and sit in the waiting area in front of the desk. My friend let her pt come out there too. As our pts were sitting there, they started bragging to each other about what a good nurse each of them had. They were making competitive statements about who had the better nurse. My friend had become busy so she was zipping up and down the halls. My pt (I guess he felt like he was loosing the competition) says to her, "You had better slow down cause I can smell your v****a and it stinks!" Inappropriate yes, and I had to talk to him about appropriate and inappropriate behavior towards the staff, but in the privacy of the station we had a good laugh. We laughed about that for months!

 

[susan1]

forgot to mention the one advantage you have in the u.s. restraints - we havn't been able to use them for at least 20yrs!

 

[SwedishMeatball]

OMG! I have another one! One night I had a really nice guy who had some confusion, and my fellow nurse who I'm friends with had a male pt about the same age who had some confusion as well (both pts had controlled schizophrenia). My pt had really gotten attached to me, and my friend's pt had gotten really attached to her. Early AM I let my pt come and sit in the waiting area in front of the desk. My friend let her pt come out there too. As our pts were sitting there, they started bragging to each other about what a good nurse each of them had. They were making competitive statements about who had the better nurse. My friend had become busy so she was zipping up and down the halls. My pt (I guess he felt like he was loosing the competition) says to her, "You had better slow down cause I can smell your v****a and it stinks!" Inappropriate yes, and I had to talk to him about appropriate and inappropriate behavior towards the staff, but in the privacy of the station we had a good laugh. We laughed about that for months!

I think finding the humor in any challenging job helps to lighten the load.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Lisa, stealing narcs is something in the nursing profession that does happen.

That was a pretty serious thing for someone to even allude to/joke about. I know the poster who said that was trying to illustrate that Cool-Beans is emotionless, but that was just taking it a little too far. Whoever said it should apologize IMO.

This thread just makes me so sad because nurses are in here beating each other up verbally. That's another dirty little secret of nursing - that nurses are mean to each other.

Gotcha--and i agree with the last part...at least what I have seen on the DIS.