What is going on with the FP+ crackdown?

[jknezek]

Except for all the reasons that allow this - the ones that shouldn't either shouldn't let you or should warn you.

It's not that hard. My kids could count to 3 before they turned 3. So you book 3 and stop. Problem solved. If you aren't looking for ways around it you aren't likely to find them. Book 3, don't book more until you use them, and you won't need to worry about a warning.

 

[sndral]

Of course those intending to find a way to get extra FP know what they are doing and are not going to be the ones shocked when something happens with their accounts. That's not who PP is referring to with the bold above. The guest that changes FP between ticketed users on their 1 MDE account without realizing it breaks a rule, because MDE allows them to do it, are going to be quite displeased by it all. And the CM they get to deal with will have their hands full trying to explain why MDE has a feature that is against the rules to use.

Who knew you could do this! Guess I'll have to stick w/ the system I've been using which is if I don't feel like riding Tower of Terror taking my magic band off and handing it to my son so he can ride a second time while I people watch from the bench behind the coffee cart

 

[5DisneyNuts]

It's not that hard. My kids could count to 3 before they turned 3. So you book 3 and stop. Problem solved. If you aren't looking for ways around it you aren't likely to find them. Book 3, don't book more until you use them, and you won't need to worry about a warning.

Not saying booking more than 3. Sorry you missed my point. There are valid reasons for making changes that the UX allows and it doesn't mean anyone is looking for ways around the system. Even better, don't book any and you really don't have to worry.

What's not hard is expecting a multi billion dollar organization to be able to get their systems right.

 

[AngiTN]

Who knew you could do this! Guess I'll have to stick w/ the system I've been using which is if I don't feel like riding Tower of Terror taking my magic band off and handing it to my son so he can ride a second time while I people watch from the bench behind the coffee cart

Which is what we do too. And evidently can even be a grey area on correctness.

 

[AngiTN]

Right now I'd be happy if they got it where you could book rooms again.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Yeah, I guess. I keep picturing Scared Straight where you send kids to spend a day in jail to prevent them from turning to a life of crime. Just isn't what I picture when I think of Disney.

See, I see a cash cow that is being pumped for fees so much that it nearly isn't allowed to rest/sleep anymore...figuratively speaking.

That an entire legion of number crunchers is employed to tweak prices on a 24 a day basis with more care than they put to actually keeping the parks open anymore...

And at the same time, there are obvious capacity/rationing issues that they are afraid will be exposed or realized to the masses (instead of just us here)...and their response is to put effort to eliminating things that are only marginally impactful - like this. This is just fringe stuff...they aren't looking to improving the overall product/experience. It's tinkering to satisfy the corporate power structure as a relentless price hike attack continues.

Another example were the chip readers on the mugs...which really only addressed a minor abuse that ultimately was worth very little to their bottomline...it was done to satisfy the overbearing fanatical bookkeepers who are obsessed with parks trying to artificially create profit that really can't be sustained to cover the corporate ugly ducklings like espn and it's nba contract.

That's what I "see" when I think of disney these last five or so years. Cause it just happens to be the truth.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

That was a lot to take in.

I had to read it several times. I can tell you the brilliant folks at IT deleted one of my onsite visits and I lost a bunch of FP+ for Pandora that were irreplaceable.

I simply don't believe significant numbers of FP were taken by people abusing the system. Some sure, but it's a very complicated process and there were not that many people trying to scam it. Simply too hard. Heck, most didn't even bother to plan period, much less scam. I never saw hoards of people running to FP kiosks with spare bands every day getting extra FP, did you?

I read on another thread that they were also shutting down CM's who participated in this practice. That has to be a much larger number than guests.

No not like express pass necessarily. I think they could very well have a paid option for extra Fps or something like that. They already know people will pay for rides. Look at the early morning magic event or the new Frozen dessert party they are about to start.

What new Frozen Dessert party? We did the Morning Magic (why couldn't they pick a better name, too similar to EMH) and loved it. To walk around in an empty park was awesome. I know the advice on the boards was to wait to eat until 9:45 but after two go rounds on 7DMT on an empty stomach made my DD and I nauseous it was better to eat. Plus, between 9-10:30 while the rest of the park was in the 7DMT line my DD was walking on Space and BTMRR.

Since the beginning I always thought there would be extra FP+ for sale. Even the ability to pre-book 1 extra would be worth it to me.

They are already enforcing the same day FP rule. You now HAVE to have the FPs associated with a ticket used for entry for it to work. Disney is currently working on the 30-60 day CP "strategy." It is definitely against ToS that's why that strategy can't be discussed here. So those still using it KNOW it's against ToS and are still doing it.

Since it's already known it is against ToS I don't think there will be any "warning" when the update is going to be in place.

Good to know it is being enforced already.

I don't know if it was bad PR so to speak that drove the changes but the trips we took during busy 2015-2016 times we were unable to get a fourth FP+ and the standby lines were too long to use between FP+ times so it was hurry up and wait, 3 rides and out the park. And I did write to complain AND I followed through with not renewing or visiting. Heck, I may not have gone back if it wasn't the Dis 20th anniversary.

 

[jknezek]

See, I see a cash cow that is being pumped for fees so much that it nearly isn't allowed to rest/sleep anymore...figuratively speaking.

That an entire legion of number crunchers is employed to tweak prices on a 24 a day basis with more care than they put to actually keeping the parks open anymore...

And at the same time, there are obvious capacity/rationing issues that they are afraid will be exposed or realized to the masses (instead of just us here)...and their response is to put effort to eliminating things that are only marginally impactful - like this. This is just fringe stuff...they aren't looking to improving the overall product/experience. It's tinkering to satisfy the corporate power structure as a relentless price hike attack continues.

Another example were the chip readers on the mugs...which really only addressed a minor abuse that ultimately was worth very little to their bottomline...it was done to satisfy the overbearing fanatical bookkeepers who are obsessed with parks trying to artificially create profit that really can't be sustained to cover the corporate ugly ducklings like espn and it's nba contract.

That's what I "see" when I think of disney these last five or so years. Cause it just happens to be the truth.

I agree with most of this except the bolded part. Look, I think Disney does less of this than they did 20 years ago. I think some of the day to day magic has been used up in search of profits. But I also know people who have had things go wrong on their vacation and Disney has been absolutely magical to them during the trip and following up afterward. I also think that while it is fair to grumble about 1999 through 2012, and in fact grumble may not be strong enough because the investment during that period was non-existent, since then WDW has been trying to play catch up. New Fantasyland, Pandora, TSL, SWL are all significant investments in bettering the experience.

They do need to keep it up. They are absolutely playing catch up from the fallow decade and I agree that they haven't made up for it and even opening everything that is planned to be open by 2020 probably isn't enough. EPCOT is an absolute embarrassment as far as I am concerned. FEA is a joke in the wrong spot and Futureworld is pathetic. So they have significant work to do, but they ARE doing it at this point. And continually saying that they aren't trying or aren't doing it simply isn't true, they just have a ways to go.

As for ticket prices, WDW has increased ticket prices every year it has been open. It's not going to change. They do owe us more for the decade plus they raised tickets without adding to the parks and we will have to see how much we get for it versus the size of the ticket and hotel increases going forward. Whether it is worth it or not is very much a value judgment. I still love Disney, I love Fort Wilderness even though it is nowhere near the Fort Wilderness of the late 80s heyday, but I go less now than my parents took me then, even though we live closer. Mainly because I can't afford to go as much.

That's the side of Disney that isn't so magical, and I'm not blind to it, but I think sometimes we fall so strongly on one side of the argument or the other that the reality is actually lost in the rhetoric.

 

[HopperFan]

And I can say the same but I have never seen any sort of FP loophole discussed outside of the disboards. I just don't think its a PR issue. I feel if it was it would have been taken care of sooner.

Agree. Only here was the action discussed in great detail. The only thing being discussed on other boards was the Disboards members planning and reaction to this.

The last couple weeks even provided more detail on how to and backup plans. No doubt there were "folks" following along to see all the angles guests were looking at for Plan B, Plan C ....

So why did they do it?

Read between the lines. Bolded part above. Why was it not discussed elsewhere? Why on the day Disney was supposedly starting to make IT changes did all vanish so suddenly? What other things in the past that served to "help" guests with planning suddenly disappeared? Why?

 

[mikebb]

See, I see a cash cow that is being pumped for fees so much that it nearly isn't allowed to rest/sleep anymore...figuratively speaking.

That an entire legion of number crunchers is employed to tweak prices on a 24 a day basis with more care than they put to actually keeping the parks open anymore...

And at the same time, there are obvious capacity/rationing issues that they are afraid will be exposed or realized to the masses (instead of just us here)...and their response is to put effort to eliminating things that are only marginally impactful - like this. This is just fringe stuff...they aren't looking to improving the overall product/experience. It's tinkering to satisfy the corporate power structure as a relentless price hike attack continues.

Another example were the chip readers on the mugs...which really only addressed a minor abuse that ultimately was worth very little to their bottomline...it was done to satisfy the overbearing fanatical bookkeepers who are obsessed with parks trying to artificially create profit that really can't be sustained to cover the corporate ugly ducklings like espn and it's nba contract.

That's what I "see" when I think of disney these last five or so years. Cause it just happens to be the truth.

This tinkering as you call it shouldn't be surprising to anyone who's been paying attention to Disney and who has experience with/exposure to large corporations. There is so much pressure at the middle management levels to "find efficiencies" it's ridiculous. Disney seems to be following the standard corporate playbook to a T.

Picture a random mid-level Manager/Director level being handed an award for (potentially) saving 1/2/5 million dollars off the bottom line by adding chips to mugs, implementing computer-controlled janitor-dispatch, or closing (more) attractions seasonally. Never mind that these same managers will never be held accountable for going back and proving these $$ gains or quantifying their negative impact on the customer experience (and indirect $$ loss). It's all about chasing the next bonus/earnings target/etc.

Anyway, back on topic, glad they are cracking down on this abuse. I agree with many on here that it does say something about the Disney experience where it has been reduced to this level of customers pitting themselves against each other rather than that random guy that said "Do what you do so well that they will want to see it again and bring their friends." with Disney delivering a fantastic customer experience for everyone.

 

[rteetz]

What new Frozen Dessert party?

There will be a new Frozen themed dessert party at Epcot for Illuminations. It replaces the existing one and includes an after hours ride on frozen ever after.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

This tinkering as you call it shouldn't be surprising to anyone who's been paying attention to Disney and who has experience with/exposure to large corporations. There is so much pressure at the middle management levels to "find efficiencies" it's ridiculous. Disney seems to be following the standard corporate playbook to a T.

Picture a random mid-level Manager/Director level being handed an award for (potentially) saving 1/2/5 million dollars off the bottom line by adding chips to mugs, implementing computer-controlled janitor-dispatch, or closing (more) attractions seasonally. Never mind that these same managers will never be held accountable for going back and proving these $$ gains or quantifying their negative impact on the customer experience (and indirect $$ loss). It's all about chasing the next bonus/earnings target/etc.

Anyway, back on topic, glad they are cracking down on this abuse. I agree with many on here that it does say something about the Disney experience where it has been reduced to this level of customers pitting themselves against each other rather than that random guy that said "Do what you do so well that they will want to see it again and bring their friends." with Disney delivering a fantastic customer experience for everyone.

I couldn't agree more...the question in a public company is always "how do we make more and spend less while doing it?"

The problem? Is that the honest answer is often "you don't...you ride this out and invest to make more in the next wave"

But that answer is never ok...and one of my frequent rallying points around here is how disney is 100% not designed for that mentality. It's about leisure and frivolity...which are not conducive to increasing quarterlies.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I agree with most of this except the bolded part. Look, I think Disney does less of this than they did 20 years ago. I think some of the day to day magic has been used up in search of profits. But I also know people who have had things go wrong on their vacation and Disney has been absolutely magical to them during the trip and following up afterward. I also think that while it is fair to grumble about 1999 through 2012, and in fact grumble may not be strong enough because the investment during that period was non-existent, since then WDW has been trying to play catch up. New Fantasyland, Pandora, TSL, SWL are all significant investments in bettering the experience.

They do need to keep it up. They are absolutely playing catch up from the fallow decade and I agree that they haven't made up for it and even opening everything that is planned to be open by 2020 probably isn't enough. EPCOT is an absolute embarrassment as far as I am concerned. FEA is a joke in the wrong spot and Futureworld is pathetic. So they have significant work to do, but they ARE doing it at this point. And continually saying that they aren't trying or aren't doing it simply isn't true, they just have a ways to go.

As for ticket prices, WDW has increased ticket prices every year it has been open. It's not going to change. They do owe us more for the decade plus they raised tickets without adding to the parks and we will have to see how much we get for it versus the size of the ticket and hotel increases going forward. Whether it is worth it or not is very much a value judgment. I still love Disney, I love Fort Wilderness even though it is nowhere near the Fort Wilderness of the late 80s heyday, but I go less now than my parents took me then, even though we live closer. Mainly because I can't afford to go as much.

That's the side of Disney that isn't so magical, and I'm not blind to it, but I think sometimes we fall so strongly on one side of the argument or the other that the reality is actually lost in the rhetoric.

I should rephrase that...

They are "investing"...but do so when there are near crisis levels to do so. The "last resort" approach to both late Eisner and the iger eras is not how to maintain the park business.

They wait until it reaches code red...what I refer to as "operational exasperation"

Just look at MGM and AK since day one...they suffer from a lack of build out and it has dragged for decades. They wait until the whispers become shouts before doing anything...then roll out a 7 year plan.

Thank god for Comcast...to be honest...without the full court press going on there can you imagine what the rat would be doing? I don't like to think about it.

And remember: avatar is a net gain...the work at MGM is not...there hasn't been a net gain at Epcot since 2006...and MK got a big fat 1 since 1996. These are not the ways to accommodate a 30% gain in attendance.

 

[jknezek]

I should rephrase that...

They are "investing"...but do so when there are near crisis levels to do so. The "last resort" approach to both late Eisner and the iger eras is not how to maintain the park business.

They wait until it reaches code red...what I refer to as "operational exasperation"

Just look at MGM and AK since day one...they suffer from a lack of build out and it has dragged for decades. They wait until the whispers become shouts before doing anything...then roll out a 7 year plan.

Thank god for Comcast...to be honest...without the full court press going on there can you imagine what the rat would be doing? I don't like to think about it.

And remember: avatar is a net gain...the work at MGM is not...there hasn't been a net gain at Epcot since 2006...and MK got a big fat 1 since 1996. These are not the ways to accommodate a 30% gain in attendance.

Again, I think you are a bit biased here. Avatar is a gain, DHS is adding 4 rides. They got rid of one, the Backlot Tour. Now they also eliminated the Stunt Show and the Shrunk the Kids Playground, but I'm not sure that is a wash with adding 2 fully themed lands. I think it's a stretch to claim that the work in DHS is not a net gain. But yes, it doesn't accommodate 30% more people. EPCOT, as I said, is in sorry, sorry shape. And MK... well, MK has the most attractions by a mile. I think they would do better to add attractions to the other parks making them more competitive than to keep adding to MK, but certainly based on attendance it is darn crowded in the original FL home of the mouse.

 

[rteetz]

And remember: avatar is a net gain...the work at MGM is not...there hasn't been a net gain at Epcot since 2006...and MK got a big fat 1 since 1996. These are not the ways to accommodate a 30% gain in attendance.

DHS only lost two attractions and is gaining four so how isn't it a net gain? Sure it needs more but it is a net gain.

 

[marcyleecorgan]

I didn't realize they limit APs FPs to 7 days. I thought it was length of stay. Interesting.

No, you can have more than that, you just need to stay ON-site. Disney wants your money, didn't you know?

 

[JohnneeO]

You specifically said ill will towards those that have used it in the past. I was just asking where you saw that.

I saw it right here on this thread. [Emphasis added]

A lot of people who used this cheat before had convinced themselves it wasn't wrong. They read the TOS as they saw fit and with no real punishment they thought it was OK. Now there is a punishment for the crime so yes I think (hope) they are.

It was OK, because it wasn't a cheat. It was allowed, and and anyone could do it. Most didn't know about it. Out of those who knew, some chose not do it (as evidenced by their moral indignation), and others chose to do it. No one who did it was cheating. This is why there were no punishments, and why it was openly discussed here.

WDW already has a way to pay for extra FP's. Just buy two tickets, and manage/use them separately on the same day. Like the previously available methods to maximize FP usage, it is available to everyone, and not prohibited.

 

[AngiTN]

Again, I think you are a bit biased here. Avatar is a gain, DHS is adding 4 rides. They got rid of one, the Backlot Tour. Now they also eliminated the Stunt Show and the Shrunk the Kids Playground, but I'm not sure that is a wash with adding 2 fully themed lands. I think it's a stretch to claim that the work in DHS is not a net gain. But yes, it doesn't accommodate 30% more people. EPCOT, as I said, is in sorry, sorry shape. And MK... well, MK has the most attractions by a mile. I think they would do better to add attractions to the other parks making them more competitive than to keep adding to MK, but certainly based on attendance it is darn crowded in the original FL home of the mouse.

No kidding, huh.

There have been growing pains, there is no doubt. Some will never forgive those. Clearly.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

There will be a new Frozen themed dessert party at Epcot for Illuminations. It replaces the existing one and includes an after hours ride on frozen ever after.

Then maybe I'll give it a shot. Part of my FP+ problem. I would never waste a FP+ on this and there is no way in Hades it will ever a fourth FP+. The standby line is always so long.

 

[OSUZorba]

I saw it right here on this thread. [Emphasis added]



It was OK, because it wasn't a cheat. It was allowed, and and anyone could do it. Most didn't know about it. Out of those who knew, some chose not do it (as evidenced by their moral indignation), and others chose to do it. No one who did it was cheating. This is why there were no punishments, and why it was openly discussed here.

WDW already has a way to pay for extra FP's. Just buy two tickets, and manage/use them separately on the same day. Like the previously available methods to maximize FP usage, it is available to everyone, and not prohibited.

The TOS did not change, only enforcement, which shows it was always against the rules.

Just because everyone drives 10 over on the highway to work, and I never see anyone get a ticket, doesn't mean it isn't against the rules.