What is a "holiday tree?"

[jipsy]

I beg to differ. The name change happened years ago when Christians began calling it a "Christmas tree" when it truly wasn't. Other people of different persuasions are now calling it back to what it truly was in the beginning - a holiday tree. A holiday is a celebration of something. The holiday tree represented other celebrations long before Jesus Christ ever appeared on the scene.

You truly should do some research before you point me to another thread

 

[Free4Life11]

Well I hate to be the one to break all of your hearts, but the origin of decorating a tree was stolen by the Christians from other religions and cultures, who were doing it way before that.

You can't steal a tradition. If I look at a tradition someone has and I like it and decided to start doing it, I haven't stolen a thing. . People do it all the time; they look at what others do and adopt the traditions, with modifications.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I beg to differ. The name change happened years ago when Christians began calling it a "Christmas tree" when it truly wasn't. Other people of different persuasions are now calling it back to what it truly was in the beginning - a holiday tree. A holiday is a celebration of something. The holiday tree represented other celebrations long before Jesus Christ ever appeared on the scene.

You truly should do some research before you point me to another thread

I was pointing you as a joke. Sorry you missed the sarcasm.

And as far as the official statement regarding the name change at city hall--they made no mention or effort of research before the change. It was certainly to appease those who would be offended by it being called a "Christ"mas tree.

I have no problem with research. But if you think these places are researching it to call it the correct name--you are mistaken.

 

[True North]

I just wanted to comment that the only case of "holiday" tree I had heard of was in the city of Orlando on Government property. And while it is still Christmas--it is just one more step in a direction that separation of church and state--means censorship of anything remotely doing with Christianity

Hi Lisa,
I think I am just missing your point on this one. Is it censorship or just being more inclusive? While I don't necessarily agree with calling it a holiday tree, I don't see them censoring Christianity, but rather opening a Christmas tradition to the broader public.

Does Orlando have other religious iteams up on public property like a menorah? If so my point is wrong, but if not I just see it as an attempt to be inclusive.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

You can't steal a tradition. If I look at a tradition someone has and I like it and decided to start doing it, I haven't stolen a thing. . People do it all the time; they look at what others do and adopt the traditions, with modifications.

I'm still taking names for all those who "stole" my birthday.

And I wonder where we "stole" the birthday cake from--and why all these people are eating "my" cake on "my" birthday.

 

[txgirl]

Well I hate to be the one to break all of your hearts, but the origin of decorating a tree was stolen by the Christians from other religions and cultures, who were doing it way before that. Egyptians, Romans, Pagans, Druids, - all had decorated trees in pre-christ celebrations. Germany is actually "credited" with the Christian tradition of trees, but that wasn't even accepted in the 19th century by Christians really - they found it weird.

So, it truly is a holiday tree, not a Christmas tree. You really should read up on some of your "christian traditions" and you will find out they are not Christian at all but celebration traditions from other cultures and religions that were adopted by Christians.

http://www.historychannel.com/exhibits/holidays/christmas/trees.html

No one here is talking about the origin of the Christmas tree, but rather the origin of the Christmas holiday that we celebrate....here in America......with trees in our house as part of the decoration for the CHRISTMAS holiday........ No one here has said that Christians made up the Christmas tree or that the Christmas tree is "christian" (while there are ways to use symbolism to tie it together). The point made here is that it is a bit ridiculous to take a tree that we have used in conjunction with Christmas and now not be able to call it a "Christmas tree".

Maybe you should "read up" on the thread before taking such an antagonistic approach. Most non-christians & christians would agree that trees that Americans place in their homes the month of December are completely and totally related to the holiday of CHRISTMAS and not from Egyptians, Romans, or martians for that matter, regardless of the "actual" origin or history . Just like on Halloween my children and I don't make a goat sacrifice in the backyard and have fellowship with evil spirits, even though Halloween has some dark "origins".

You can't honestly live in the real world today and not see how obvious it is that Christian beliefs are being shut-out in lots of ways. My daughers attend public school here in Virginia and they have studied each year about "Holidays around the World" and with that there is a study of Hanukah (with the emphasis on the "miracle") yet when the study comes to Christmas it only acknowledges Santa (no "miracle" of the birth of Christ). Along with Hanukah they study Muslim holidays and Kwanzaa. I am never offended by these studies but it makes me increasingly aware that Christmas is becoming very taboo.

 

[DarkSideMoon]

I beg to differ. The name change happened years ago when Christians began calling it a "Christmas tree" when it truly wasn't. Other people of different persuasions are now calling it back to what it truly was in the beginning - a holiday tree. A holiday is a celebration of something. The holiday tree represented other celebrations long before Jesus Christ ever appeared on the scene.

You truly should do some research before you point me to another thread

yes, but how many druids do you see out on the street NOW celebrating the winter solstice?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Hi Lisa,
I think I am just missing your point on this one. Is it censorship or just being more inclusive? While I don't necessarily agree with calling it a holiday tree, I don't see them censoring Christianity, but rather opening a Christmas tradition to the broader public.

Does Orlando have other religious iteams up on public property like a menorah? If so my point is wrong, but if not I just see it as an attempt to be inclusive.

They claim it is inclusive--but yet have not shown any "present" traditions/religions that decorate a tree in December.

Any and all articles make no reference to other religous items such as a menorrah.

And do we really think that the Jewish Faith or those that celebrate Kwanzaa are feeling embraced because of a name change?

Are the muslims jumping up and down for joy b/c they are included in a "holiday" tree?

I think the word is being censored and it is being disguised as reaching out. It is censored in Public Schools quite often.

I haven't been downtown lately--so I do not know what their decor consists of.

It just really seems a "pat on the back" we done good b/c we can please everyone with a name change.

 

[jipsy]

I was pointing you as a joke. Sorry you missed the sarcasm.

Trust me, LLP, I had no qualms that you were trying to point me out as a JOKE. In my very broad experience I have run across many "christians" such as yourself and you all sing the same, albeit off-key, tune.

The Christmas tree is supposed to stand Christ's Tree as so many of you, along with so many of those people in my Southern Baptist upbringing for over 25 years of my life, have been so kind to point out over the 5 years I have been a member here. To now see those of you who call yourself Christians stand up on this thread and become indignant that your precious Christmas tree is now called a Holiday tree, given the WHOLE history of that tree, I find as the true joke. The fact that you cannot accept that a decorated tree is not a true Christian tradition is typical.

You really need to re-examine your religion, as I did many years ago. You'll find it quite enlightening once you let go of everything you "believe" is true and begin to search for what is really true.

I owe DIS moderator Cleo for that bit of advice.

 

[DarkSideMoon]

You really need to re-examine your religion, as I did many years ago. You'll find it quite enlightening once you let go of everything you "believe" is true and begin to search for what is really true.

I have no response to that. When it comes to science, I put all my beliefs to the side and focus on what science is telling me. When I am studying science I keep an open mind, the only thing that cannot change due to science is my belief that God made the world. Be it through evolution, or something else entirely.

 

[jipsy]

yes, but how many druids do you see out on the street NOW celebrating the winter solstice?

I was at a winter solstice celebration just last year and there were approximately over 100 people there celebrating the solstice. It was wonderful. We danced and sang and played music around a bonfire and lighted smudge sticks and asked for blessings on the people we loved and forgivings for our shortcomings. It was the most real, down to earth, celebration I ever attended. How about you?

 

[Tigger&Belle]

I agree that a "holiday tree" is stupid. Call it what it is! And I'm Jewish...

 

[DarkSideMoon]

I was at a winter solstice celebration just last year and there were approximately over 100 people there celebrating the solstice. It was wonderful. We danced and sang and played music around a bonfire and lighted smudge sticks and asked for blessings on the people we loved and forgivings for our shortcomings. It was the most real, down to earth, celebration I ever attended. How about you?

100, people, as opposed to what, 95% of the U.S. Face it, A very very select few even realize that Christmas was taken from the roman holiday satranalia. SP?

 

[phorsenuf]

Trust me, LLP, I had no qualms that you were trying to point me out as a JOKE. In my very broad experience I have run across many "christians" such as yourself and you all sing the same, albeit off-key, tune.

The Christmas tree is supposed to stand Christ's Tree as so many of you, along with so many of those people in my Southern Baptist upbringing for over 25 years of my life, have been so kind to point out over the 5 years I have been a member here. To now see those of you who call yourself Christians stand up on this thread and become indignant that your precious Christmas tree is now called a Holiday tree, given the WHOLE history of that tree, I find as the true joke. The fact that you cannot accept that a decorated tree is not a true Christian tradition is typical.

You really need to re-examine your religion, as I did many years ago. You'll find it quite enlightening once you let go of everything you "believe" is true and begin to search for what is really true.

I owe DIS moderator Cleo for that bit of advice.

I am a Christian and in no way do I consider a Christmas tree a religious symbol. It is a CHRISTMAS DECORATION. That is all, plain and simple. To me it is no different than a wreath or a candy cane for goodness sakes.

Lighten up about the whole religious aspect, because truthfully I think you are being disrespectful to Christians.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Oh why not, I'll go ahead and be the disenting Christian on this thread. I am not big into Christmas because of its origins. If it wasn't for my MIL I wouldn't even be putting up a tree. Christmas started as a way to allow Pagans to feel more comfortable with the Holy Roman Catholic Church, it was a way to be more inclusive (ironic isn't it??!??!). The same thing can be said for Easter, which I don't observe either, I observe Passover instead.

I always found this interesting:

1 Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel. 2 This is what the LORD says:
"Do not learn the ways of the nations
or be terrified by signs in the sky,
though the nations are terrified by them.

3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.

4 They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter. Jeremiah 10: 1-4

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Trust me, LLP, I had no qualms that you were trying to point me out as a JOKE. In my very broad experience I have run across many "christians" such as yourself and you all sing the same, albeit off-key, tune.

The Christmas tree is supposed to stand Christ's Tree as so many of you, along with so many of those people in my Southern Baptist upbringing for over 25 years of my life, have been so kind to point out over the 5 years I have been a member here. To now see those of you who call yourself Christians stand up on this thread and become indignant that your precious Christmas tree is now called a Holiday tree, given the WHOLE history of that tree, I find as the true joke. The fact that you cannot accept that a decorated tree is not a true Christian tradition is typical.

You really need to re-examine your religion, as I did many years ago. You'll find it quite enlightening once you let go of everything you "believe" is true and begin to search for what is really true.

I owe DIS moderator Cleo for that bit of advice.

First off--it was indeed sarcasm as someone is arguing that the commercialism of Christmas is punishment for stealing the holiday. You decided to educate us here--so I in jest pointed out a thread.

I don't need to reexamine my religion at all. Religious and non-religoius alike celebrate the Christmas Season. How do you explain why non-Christians think the measure is idiotic?



You can find it a joke if you like. My church doesn't even put up a tree until Christmas Eve. No decorations all season long until then--and even then, the tree is just part of tradition while emphasis is on the manger. We focus on the coming of Christ--not the commercialism. They put of a few evergreens and put Christmas lights on them--but everyone is more intrigued by the handcrafted international dolls that were dressed by parishioners and all eyes face the baby Jesus.

For the government to say they wish to encompass all religions by changing the name of a tree--if you think for one minute that the government has evaluated the matter in full to understand the reasoning behind the Christmas tree...then the joke's on you.

They might as well call Halloween "Candy Day" or Independence Day "Have a BBQ and watch pretty sparklers day".

 

[jipsy]

No one here is talking about the origin of the Christmas tree, but rather the origin of the Christmas holiday that we celebrate....here in America......with trees in our house as part of the decoration for the CHRISTMAS holiday........ No one here has said that Christians made up the Christmas tree or that the Christmas tree is "christian" (while there are ways to use symbolism to tie it together). The point made here is that it is a bit ridiculous to take a tree that we have used in conjunction with Christmas and now not be able to call it a "Christmas tree".

No, you are expressing your disdain that it is now being referred to as a holiday tree. What is wrong with that? I didn't say anyone hre said that Christians made up the Christmas tree, but you have to admit that Christians did take other religions and cultures tradition and change it to their own by calling it CHRISTmas tree.

Maybe you should "read up" on the thread before taking such an antagonistic approach. Most non-christians & christians would agree that trees that Americans place in their homes the month of December are completely and totally related to the holiday of CHRISTMAS and not from Egyptians, Romans, or martians for that matter, regardless of the "actual" origin or history .

I did read the thread. And I don't put a tree in my home in relation to CHRISTMAS. Martians have nothing to do with this - this reply is just a typical Christian response - every thing else is a fairy tale let me brush you off like lint on a sweater; you don't know what you are talking about

Just like on Halloween my children and I don't make a goat sacrifice in the backyard and have fellowship with evil spirits, even though Halloween has some dark "origins".

Again, this is ignorance. I never accused you of making goat sacrifices in your backyard and having fellowhip with evil spirits. If you want to have a discussion on Halloween, we can do that on another thread. Halloween has nothing to do with either of the fallacies you brought up - you truly are ignorant of that and should really study up before you try to debate this.

You can't honestly live in the real world today and not see how obvious it is that Christian beliefs are being shut-out in lots of ways.

Probably are. Just like Christians have shut out all the other religions beliefs for years and years and years. But now that the shoe is on the other foot, they cry wolf. Boo-hoo.

My daughers attend public school here in Virginia and they have studied each year about "Holidays around the World" and with that there is a study of Hanukah (with the emphasis on the "miracle") yet when the study comes to Christmas it only acknowledges Santa (no "miracle" of the birth of Christ). Along with Hanukah they study Muslim holidays and Kwanzaa. I am never offended by these studies but it makes me increasingly aware that Christmas is becoming very taboo.

No Christmas is not taboo at all, as a holiday. The forcing of Christmas as a Christian holiday upon the rest of the population is. If you don't believe me, then tell the government that you also want to be able to take off work for all other religious holidays, even though they are not part of your religion, and see how far that gets you. I doubt you'll get Kwanzaa, Chanukkah, or any Muslim religious holiday listed on your holiday schedule at work for the whole workforce.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

I am a Christian and in no way do I consider a Christmas tree a religious symbol. It is a CHRISTMAS DECORATION. That is all, plain and simple. To me it is no different than a wreath or a candy cane for goodness sakes.

Lighten up about the whole religious aspect, because truthfully I think you are being disrespectful to Christians.

How is she being disrespectful??? She is expressing her beliefs and explaining the history of the holiday.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Probably are. Just like Christians have shut out all the other religions beliefs for years and years and years. But now that the shoe is on the other foot, they cry wolf. Boo-hoo.

So to be equal for everyone--Christians must be excluded and then suffer for it?? How does that make any sense?

 

[Meezers]

I think it is so funny that after I explained that if our police department removes all the "Christian" symbols from the "Christmas" tree....it is then the same symbol that the pagans used! Needless to say...all the "Christian" symbols (angels, etc) went back on the tree....our Police Chief is "born again" and just could not hack the other....

By the way...they let me have a Menorah in our dispatch center too!