What has happened to this site?

[MaryKatesMom]

This is pretty much a fan site. Which means regular visitors. We know we are no longer the audience Disney has a whole lot of interest in attracting or keeping. Which becomes more obvious with each passing year. I do think it's not right to vent your disgust at Disney onto other posters who don't share it.

Yes, that probably does present a skewed viewpoint to the newbies, but that can't be helped, since the vets on this board know more about Disney World than its own employees do much of the time.

I agree.

Maybe the first time newbies or the casual visitors will not notice a thing but with a few dozen trips under my belt, I KNOW what to expect.

I just plugged all my information into a touring plan website and at the top of the page it said something along the lines of "We're not taking into account your 2 other FP+ because that will cause you to wait longer".

I sooo wish I had made other plans this year and I would have if I had known Disney would have limited my tickets.

Sure, WDW isn't just about thrill rides, but to limit me to one headliner once a day without a huge SB line while increasing former walk on's SB line is ridculous.

How many times do I need to see the Hall of Presidents or Reflections of China?

 

[goofy4tink]

This is unfair.

There have been plenty of people who have used it that still do not like it. You're implying that the only people who have negative thoughts about FP+ are people who have not used it, and that is far from the truth.

There have been plenty of negative reports people have posted. Those people have been "flamed" as well, otherwise known as disagreed with. I've seen people post very in depth, detailed and helpful reports only to be accused of lying. Later this "lie" they were telling about FP+ was proven to be very true. There are issue on both sides for sure.

Don't get me wrong.....there are issues on both sides of the argument. Everyone (and it's human nature) wants to believe that 'their' experience is the right one. And that's kind of impossible. Not everyone can be right. Wouldn't it be nice if people just posted their particular experiences, without fear of being told that it is exaggerated in some way? And again, that goes or both sides of any argument/discussion.

There are lots of posts from people who have used the system and don't like it.

There are lots of posts from people who have not used the system but don't like the concept.

There are lots of posts from people who have used the system and liked it.

There are lots of posts from people of have not used the system but like the concept.

There are people from all these 4 groups complaining about people whose opinions differ. There is not one group that is sitting meekly.

No,there is not. Every side of an issue has it's more vocal posters...and it's those people that get things heated up.

Are we back to the argument that everyone that doesn't like FP+ hasn't used it? Why does this keep coming up?

Plenty of people have used the new system. Some liked it, others didn't. Frankly, even if I hadn't used it, I know I wouldn't like it. Getting less for more isn't something I'm a fan of (especially with the latest price increase).

Why? Because that seems to be the issue du jour at the moment. And everyone here just assumes that is the biggest issue. There are a lot of issues at the moment.

Well, you're a moderator. You can control the dumping and flaming, right? Or maybe just not in this forum, because aren't you kind of dumping on the people that don't like the system and calling them ignorant, right now?

Did I call anyone 'ignorant'? Seriously? Everyone is welcome to their own opinion. But....here's the issue. People here seem to think it's okay to lambaste others if they differ in opinion. Every single time someone comes along and gives an example or statement, there is someone else, at the ready, to refute it...telling them that they are wrong. Doesn't much matter which side of the argument you're on. But, don't go putting words in my mouth please. And no, I have absolutely no power on any board other than my own.
So, can do nothing about what I see here. Your board moderators will take care of any posts/threads they see that violate board guidelines.
Again....really? Where did I call anyone 'ignorant'?

I beg to differ. You have no way of knowing if fast pass plus will be a success. The complaints on here are far more diverse than fast pass plus issues. Ticket increases, resort increases, cut backs of shows, spending billions elsewhere not on new attractions and many more will not just go away. Many people are seeing the end of their happy place vacations and are upset about it. They too get flamed for voicing their opinion. A person who comes to these boards should get a true opinion good or bad about Disney.

When you've been here as long as I have, and you possibly have, and been to WDW as many times as I have, you start to see a trend. There are always changes...and there are always people saying they aren't getting their money's worth, and Disney isn't what it used to be. That's nothing new. But I do know that after a few months, things calm down...doesn't matter whether something is a success or not..people get used to it and go on with their lives. Case in point...back when Disney did away with E-Nights (early 2001 if I remember correctly), they put characters in the resorts..saying that guests wanted more character interaction, not time in the parks late at night. Well.....that didn't last long. No one stopped to visit with the few characters at the resorts. People wanted to get to the parks. And there was a huge outcry about the lack of E-Nights. It wasn't too long after that EMHs came into being. So, people complain, and things do change. Or more likely, people don't participate in something that Disney offers so it is no longer financially viable and Disney does away with it.
I still believe that this time next year, we won't be seeing the uproar we are seeing now. Yes, it will probably be something else...it always is.

Possibly.
IF Disney manages to work all of the kinks and glitches out of the new system.
IF Disney removes some of the restrictions on FP+
IF Disney starts to allow ALL guests to book their FP+s in advance.
IF those who post their experiences using the new system are, in the VAST majority positive.
IF those who have not yet visited under the new system can be assured that their concerns are baseless.
IF Disney stops all of these "death by a thousand cuts" pullbacks.
And, dare I mention, IF Disney stops increasing prices more than once a year.

THEN a lot of the angst will have gone away. But that is not now.

All valid points. But, there is always going to be something to complain about with Disney. They give us things to complain about. But to be realistic? We, here on the DIS, are in a huge minority. We are such a small percentage that I doubt Disney much cares what we say. I meet a ton of people going to WDW, that aren't on any kind of internet forum (which I tend to think is silly...way too much money to spend on a vacation without doing your homework, but I digress). They think WDW is all that and a bag of chips. They see no difference. They think FP+ is a miracle! I kid you not. They don't go every year, much less 3 times a year. These guests have a whole different view than most of us do.

Do I think all is beautiful, cupcakes and roses, at WDW? Heck no!!! There are things I don't like....Disney/WDW isn't perfect, not by a long shot. But no matter what...there is always going to be some kind of angst here on the DIS. And there are always going to be millions of people going to WDW that have no idea there is any angst anywhere and think their trip is terrific.

 

[Love Tink]

AND, as you are refering to my statements about Disney's price increases, they don't need to justify them. They can raise them every month, every week, every day if they want to. They are a business, they exist to make money.

I see this kind of statement on here a lot. "Disney is a business. Their only responsibility is to make money and they can do whatever they want."

It makes me think that a lot of people are very ignorant about business.

For a business - any business - to make money, they have to be concerned with more than just making money. You don't make money by just deciding to do whatever you want and charge whatever you want. You make money - whether you are a theme park company, a movie studio, or a spaghetti sauce maker - by creating something people want, building a customer base and especially by building a repeat customer base.

No person who actually knows anything about business would say "they can just do whatever they want." Failing to satisfy your customers is a recipe for failure in any business. I would hope the people in charge at Disney aren't dumb enough to think they have no responsibility to their customers.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

I see this kind of statement on here a lot. "Disney is a business. Their only responsibility is to make money and they can do whatever they want."

It makes me think that a lot of people are very ignorant about business.

For a business - any business - to make money, they have to be concerned with more than just making money. You don't make money by just deciding to do whatever you want and charge whatever you want. You make money - whether you are a theme park company, a movie studio, or a spaghetti sauce maker - by creating something people want, building a customer base and especially by building a repeat customer base.

No person who actually knows anything about business would say "they can just do whatever they want." Failing to satisfy your customers is a recipe for failure in any business. I would hope the people in charge at Disney aren't dumb enough to think they have no responsibility to their customers.

I never said they can do whatever they want. You are intentionally taking my words out of context. I am an MBA so I am FAR from ignorant about biusiness. I have commented about price increases quoting the principles of supply & demand and price elasticity. The statement you quoted is an extension of that. As long as demand holds steady or increases, Disney can (and will) continue to increase prices. They have NEVER had to decrease prices because even when demand has wained it has held at a level that they can simply maintain pricing for that year. Conversely, there have been NUMEROUS years where demand has been so high that it has merited multiple price increases over the course of the year. Therefore, as long as the levels of demand continue to increase, Disney can continue in increase ticket prices. And no, they do not owe their customers a warning. The only thing they "owe" their customers are the products and services they sell.

And, the most pressing responsibility of any business that is publically traded is the responsibility to their stockholders - not their customers. Therefore, making money is their primary concern so that they can continue to pay the dividends that stockholders expect. I didn't say "Disney can do whatever it wants whenever it wants" I said that they can raise prices every week or every day as long as there is increasing demand to warrant it. And the ticket increases weren't even as steep as the last 2 increases! In 2012 APs increased $55, in 2013 they increase $35, this time it was $25. Or to put it in percentages - 2012 = 11% increase, 2013 = 6% increase, 2014 = 4% increase. Not exactly dramatic!

 

[gamerlovesdisney]

The DIS boards are just reflecting what the customers are feeling. When everything at Disney World is wonderful, the forum will show that. When things are changing, and not in the way the customer wanted, the boards will show that, too.

I've been going for decades and have always had a wonderful and magical time. Some years I've gone 4 times in a year and the magic was always there. However, I went this past October and for the first time ever, didn't enjoy it. (And yes, I used FP+ and the magic bands.) I'm sorry if it sounds like complaining, but it didn't meet my expectations. Where was the magic that I've always felt? I was so upset - what had happened to my favorite place on earth?

 

[bwang123]

Possibly.
IF Disney manages to work all of the kinks and glitches out of the new system.
IF Disney removes some of the restrictions on FP+
IF Disney starts to allow ALL guests to book their FP+s in advance.
IF those who post their experiences using the new system are, in the VAST majority positive.
IF those who have not yet visited under the new system can be assured that their concerns are baseless.
IF Disney stops all of these "death by a thousand cuts" pullbacks.
And, dare I mention, IF Disney stops increasing prices more than once a year.

THEN a lot of the angst will have gone away. But that is not now.

Or, Disney will drive away all of the existing fans that have a problem with how they are currently going and they will drop off these boards and move on. Then, then boards will be filled with people who didn't know the previous system and have no bad feelings except when they occasionally take away small items like logo napkins.

 

[bwang123]

double post.

 

[Luvchefmic]

I would absolutely direct anyone here wanting to make the most of a Disney trip. I would just direct them to avoid all FP thread except for the 3 linked in Mesaboy's signature.

Oh, and I would direct them to avoid threads with any title similar to "What has happened to this site?".

You want to meet Anna & Elsa without waiting 4 hours? Lots of friendly folks willing to help you do that. Want to time your BBB apt with dinner at 1900 PF? Lots of friendly folks will help you avoid a timing error. Want to know whether you can do early ticket pick-up? Lots of help with no angst.

There is still a wealth of info on the Disboards for first time visitors and veterans alike I would also direct them to visit the PTR & TR threads too

 

[Golf4283]

The board is still very useful but to me the problem seems to be a lack of moderation as to topics. There are so many threads in the "theme park attractions and strategies" section for instance that have no business being in there. This thread included in my opinion. Granted I like the topic and it's a good discussion.

I guess this forum is a catch-all for anyone just wanting to post things and opinions. It's hard to sort through millions of fastpass+ threads to get to actual useful information. They really need a sub-forum for fastpass+. I think a lot of the problems are related to that, it's a very volatile topic on this board. Some support it and some hate it. Opinions are great and bad cause everyone has one.

 

[siskaren]

This is unfair.

There have been plenty of people who have used it that still do not like it. You're implying that the only people who have negative thoughts about FP+ are people who have not used it, and that is far from the truth.

Are we back to the argument that everyone that doesn't like FP+ hasn't used it? Why does this keep coming up?

Goofy4tink never said that everyone who complains about FP+ has never used it, only that lots of people who've complained have never used it.

 

[Shaden]

Lots of people complaining about something they have never used. And when someone posts about their experienced, using it? They get dumped on and flamed.....those that haven't used the product yet obviously know more than those that have used it successfully.
Mark my words...come back here in a year. You won't see the angst you are seeing now. It will have all gone away, and everyone will be in their 'happy place' again.

What a Joke.

Those who have used the system all love it.

The people who don't like it haven't used it and dump on those.

Everything will be great in a year

Seriously, do you even read these boards, there are mounting more and more every single day people who have USED the system who don't like it.

The bitterness is certainly on both sides of the pro and anti- FP+ camps, but the bitterness and the dismissiveness that comes from the pro-FP+ people is just brutal.

"Disney doesn't care about you"
"Great, don't come back to Disney, less people in line with me"
"No one cares about your opinion"
"You are a dime a dozen and will be replaced by a line of people waiting to go to wdw"
"Stop complaining"
"Get over it"
"You can't criticize something you haven't used (your opinion is invalid)"
etc etc etc.

Cases in point, from a thread where a woman decided she wouldn't be celebrating her 50th in WDW ....

One less person to crowd the parks for me.

I'm tired of these negative FP+ posts. It's here to stay... get over it.

OP, it's your decision, but to be honest, you are just a drop in the bucket for Disney. Don't understand why people feel the urge to let us all know that they won't go to Disney. No one really cares if you go or not, KWIM? We don't even know you.

Most of the anti-FP comments are just that, anti-fp+. There are a few people here who do attempt to throw in some humorous criticisms, and while criticizing the logic of someone, I will agree they might go overboard, but the target of their comments are the system and the logic its supporters offer. Not the people themselves.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

The board is still very useful but to me the problem seems to be a lack of moderation as to topics. There are so many threads in the "theme park attractions and strategies" section for instance that have no business being in there. This thread included in my opinion. Granted I like the topic and it's a good discussion.

I've found this to be true for several years. Look at the Disney for Families board as another example. Half the threads are non-Disney related family issues.

 

[Shaden]

Goofy4tink never said that everyone who complains about FP+ has never used it, only that lots of people who've complained have never used it.

No, she/he pretty much said people who say they don't like it haven't used it, and people who have used it love it.

 

[drew64]

I don't see any more negativity than usual. It is just more concentrated - now around FP+ whereas before it centered on:

pool hopping

parking at resorts you are not staying at to avoid paying for parking

not giving up your seat on a crowded bus

ECVs

Strollers

Holding places for parades for others

Line jumping

Reusing refillable mugs

Using flashes/phones on attractions

and the dreaded Brazillian tour groups

Disney just kindly gave a single focus for everyone's negative attention

 

[siskaren]

No, she/he pretty much said people who say they don't like it haven't used it, and people who have used it love it.

I don't know where you're getting this from. She (and yes, goofy4tink is a she) said that there are lots of people who say they don't like it when they haven't used it (again, lots, not everyone), and that there are people who have used it and like it (again, not that everyone who's used it has liked it).

 

[Shaden]

Lots of people complaining about something they have never used. And when someone posts about their experienced, using it? They get dumped on and flamed.....those that haven't used the product yet obviously know more than those that have used it successfully.

I don't know where you're getting this from. She (and yes, goofy4tink is a she) said that there are lots of people who say they don't like it when they haven't used it (again, lots, not everyone), and that there are people who have used it and like it (again, not that everyone who's used it has liked it).

Seriously ?? Read her first statement.

"Lots of people complaining about something they have never used." = people who are complaining about it haven't used it.

Especially when followed by:
"And when someone posts about their experienced, using it? They get dumped on and flamed.....those that haven't used the product yet obviously know more than those that have used it successfully" .... meaning that the people who have used it, liked it, and the people who flame them and don't like the system, are those who have not used it.

Pretty damn clear. She doesn't say there are plenty of people who have tried it and don't like it, and she didn't say there are plenty of people who haven't tried it an "like" it. She only said what she said.

Now to be fair, she somewhat backpedaled on this on Page 3 I think, but this is what she said initially.

She didn't say "people who complain haven't used it and people who love it have" but that is the meaning of her post, whether that's what she meant to say or not, I would leave up to her.

 

[MrsDuck]

Lots of people complaining about something they have never used. And when someone posts about their experienced, using it? They get dumped on and flamed.....those that haven't used the product yet obviously know more than those that have used it successfully.
Mark my words...come back here in a year. You won't see the angst you are seeing now. It will have all gone away, and everyone will be in their 'happy place' again.

1000% agree with this!

 

[raidermatt]

It's a reflection of the frustration with some of the things Disney has been doing, FP+ being at the top of the list. This is by far the most negative reaction I have seen to any change Disney has made since I joined this site in 2000. You can poo-poo the complaining all you want, but nothing else Disney has done has elicited this kind of reaction. The closest was when they eliminated Early Entry about 12 years ago in favor of Character Caravan, but even that wasn't met with this kind of reaction, and that decision was quickly reversed.

At least to an extent, they misjudged their audience, but Disney is so invested in MM+ and FP+ that there can't be a quick reversal like there was with EE/CC. So we'll have to see where they go from here.

 

[jimim]

I think it's perfectly fine to be upset with Disney if you're no longer satisfied with their product. Heated, CIVIL, debate is good. What I'm seeing is an overwhelming amount of people being rude and snide and sarcastic and sometimes just downright MEAN to other posters here.

+1 exactly. people are just mean and rude. . . but when u are behind a keyboard. . . anything can be said. again ints the internet not the real world. cause in the real world i don't think so many of these comments would be said to peoples face. i posted 2 different threads over the past 2 weeks about easter and got no responses each time cause it got buried within 20 mins. its useless to ask anything anymore.

jim

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

Seriously ?? Read her first statement.

"Lots of people complaining about something they have never used." = people who are complaining about it haven't used it.

Especially when followed by:
"And when someone posts about their experienced, using it? They get dumped on and flamed.....those that haven't used the product yet obviously know more than those that have used it successfully" .... meaning that the people who have used it, liked it, and the people who flame them and don't like the system, are those who have not used it.

Pretty damn clear.

Now to be fair, she somewhat backpedaled on this on Page 3 I think, but this is what she said initially.

She didn't say "people who complain haven't used it and people who love it have" but that is the meaning of her post, whether that's what she meant to say or not, I would leave up to her.

Last time I checked "lots of people" does not mean ALL THE PEOPLE.