what happens to FW when 4 Seasons Resort is built?

[hatchmo]

Anyone else nervous about this? Disney has announced that a new luxury resort will be built by 4 Seasons, incorporating the golf course that adjoins FW into the plans. Is it possible that consideration is being given to eliminating the Fort? The campground and the abandoned River Country land would produce much more revenue for Disney as a luxury resort, I think. Does anyone know exactly where the proposed new resort will be built? And is this behind the reluctance to upgrade and decline in service that has been mentioned in recent posts?

 

[kater2u]

nothing happens to fort wilderness. Many moons ago, there was supposed to be a hotel for the golf courses. Four seasons is going into that spot. It is also a good name hotel to go against Waldorf Astoria that is coming.

As for decline in service. I disagree with any decline in service. If anything, disney has added services and is adding more. The campground is not a Grand floridian nor a Wilderness Lodge. It is a high end (the pinnacle) campground. It is a stand alone property type for disney that has no equals. It is not a value, a moderate, or a premium. It is a campground with cabins. The amenities offered at each category of hotels are different. And there are MANY benefits that the fort has that other properties would kill for.

 

[stacktester]

If that happens I'll park my camper in the parking lot. I would surely hope WDW wouldn't sell out the working class like us. We're the people who built them so hopefully this won't be the case. I was on the swamp trail this morning though and that land I'm sure is close to what they're going to develop and probably why the trail isn't being refurbished. Disney is all about money so nothing I hear surprises me. I'll say this, I wouldn't be interested in going to a park or staying at other on property resorts so cancel my annual pass. The fort is a favorite to many people and WDW has changed many things (most not benefiting us) and one would hope this will never be an issue.

 

[kater2u]

nothing will happen to fort. It has one of the highest occupancy rates. The upkeep is minimal. It wins all sort of awards. It is the flagship campground around. If anything ever happens to Fort, it will be expansion

 

[stacktester]

That sounds logical Kater. To end FW would lose too many fans. It was one of the original resorts of WDW so it probably will always stay. Like you said the upkeep is very minimal. Replace a fence post or site number marker here and there.

 

[ynottony99]

True they can make more for square foot of developed land with a luxury hotel. But they have plenty of unused acres to develop without wiping out the revenue generated, and recognition that FW brings to WDW. Though we would love to see more improvements, they are working to upgrade electrical service, add cable, enlarge sites for the big rigs, remodel comfort stations, etc. I know there has been a lot of negative comments on some threads, and of course things could always be better, but for the $, FW is the best value anywhere!!!! IMHO of course!!

 

[Donna]

This has been mentioned on the cast member board already. To be honest, it makes me a little nervous. The bottom line is the dollar, no matter how highly occupied the fort is, if they can bring in more money, disney will do it. What makes me nervous is, if the CMs have mentioned it, how far behind can the "suits" be in thinking of it if they haven't already. I sure hope they're wrong though. i would drive down there to protest it. We could all park our rigs end to end and not let the construction vehicles in! i'm not kidding!

 

[HappyDznyCamper]

A camp in!!! Count me in.

 

[farmman]

Kater2u you are drinking the Disney Kool-Aid there has been talk in the pass about moving FW to a new location. For the first tome ever Disney sole the land to the 4 Seasons not just a lease. So if anyone in today’s market came to Disney with the enough money FW will be gone tomorrow.

 

[hatchmo]

farmman, do you know for sure that disney has already sold the land to 4 seasons? And that it is not the Fort? Sure hope you are right.

 

[CDSTapisRouge]

Here is the press release, for those that may not have seen it. I am reading this as they are going to rework Eagle Pines and Osprey Ridge into a new golf course around the hotel itself. There is plenty of room there to do that without affecting the Fort. I think being that the Fort is one of the original accomodations and is always full it would be a bad decission on Disney's part if they were to do anything to it. There is so much history and loyalty there, but you never know stranger things have happened.
_________________________________________________________________

New Disney Luxury Resort Announced

Walt Disney World Resort announced two new projects as part of an expansion plan for the resort in Central Florida: a new 900-acre luxury resort anchored by the prestigious Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts and a 450-acre retail, dining and lodging district on the western edge of the Disney resort.

"These projects are first-of-a-kind for Walt Disney World Resort and we are thrilled to be able to bring Four Seasons to our resort," said Meg Crofton, president of Walt Disney World Resort. "Families around the globe know they can trust Disney to deliver magical experiences and Four Seasons to offer exceptional service and amenities. Combined, this is a huge win for devotees of both brands and for Central Florida," said Crofton.

LUXURY DESTINATION RESORT — NORTHEAST RESORT AREA
Along the northeast border of Walt Disney World Resort, Disney plans to convert its Eagle Pines and Osprey Ridge golf courses into a luxury resort and golf community. The development will include a luxury hotel, 18-hole championship golf course, single- and multi-family vacation homes and fractional ownership vacation homes.

Disney entered into a letter of intent with Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts to bring these two complementary and respected brands together to anchor a new world-class family resort destination.

Four Seasons is dedicated to perfecting the travel experience through continuous innovation and the highest standards of hospitality. Currently with 74 hotels in 31 countries, and more than 25 properties under development, Four Seasons continues to lead the hospitality industry with innovative enhancements, making business travel easier and leisure travel more rewarding. The deeply instilled Four Seasons culture is personified in its employees — people who share a single focus and are inspired to offer great service. Four Seasons currently operates two properties in Florida, Four Seasons Hotel Miami and the Four Seasons Resort Palm Beach.

"The Resort will have all the ingredients needed to create memorable vacations: gracious and caring staff; beautiful surroundings that are thoughtfully designed; and services and amenities that make every experience one to cherish," said Kathleen Taylor, president and chief operating officer, Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts. "It's an honor to collaborate with Walt Disney World Resort on this project. Walt Disney's reputation for service excellence and exceptional family entertainment amenities is an ideal complement to the values of Four Seasons. Central Florida will be a valuable addition to our family of resorts, particularly since this is a destination our guests already enjoy."

Once terms of the project are finalized, site work could begin later this year, with a hotel opening forecasted for 2010.

VALUE-ORIENTED DESTINATION — MIXED-USE TOURISM DISTRICT
On the western edge of the resort, Disney is planning a mixed-use tourist commercial district just outside Disney's gateway entrance. The master-planned development is comparable in size to Disney's Animal Kingdom.

The project combines third-party branded lodging, retail and dining in a pedestrian-friendly environment and will be another example of Disney's commitment to unique placemaking. Located outside Disney's gateway around the interchange where Western Way meets the Western Beltway, early development plans include 4,000 - 5,000 low- to mid-rise, value-priced lodging units and 300,000 - 500,000 square feet of commercial space. Designed around a retail village, the development will become a convenient shopping and service center for Cast Members, nearby residents and Central Florida visitors.

The project is currently in the design stage. Site work and branding is anticipated to begin later this year. The project will be built in phases over the next 8 - 10 years.

 

[Colson39]

Nothing is 100%, but I seriously doubt Disney would ever get rid of Fort Wilderness. As some people have mentioned, it has a very high occupancy rate, and is one of the original Disney "resorts". Just because it doesn't cost $300 a night doesn't mean that it doesn't make money.

Once again, as other people have mentioned, there is very little cost with Fort Wilderness compared to other resorts. There electric bill is probably what, 20% at most of other resorts, same for water, etc... There is a also a much smaller staff that has to work the campground.

Now, of course, there are other costs that might run higher at other resorts (other resorts probably make a ton more money on food/drinks/etc...). As well, there is a much more elaborate bus system at the Fort than most resorts.

All that being said, I just don't see it going anywhere. If Disney needs to build another resort, they're not going to tear down Fort Wilderness to do it. They have plenty of room elsewhere to build, and it would actually be a very dumb business move to wipe out a high occupancy area that makes them money, simply to put in another money making resort. Why not just have both and get the profits from both resorts?

That, and the fact that Disney has no intention of building any new resorts themselves anytime soon. Their occupancy rate still isn't high enough to warrant it, and it would just be a gamble on their part. And if you think Disney is going to allow another resort that is non-Disney to be within eyeshot of the Lodge/Contemporary/the Lake, I seriously doubt it. They still have TONS of land on the outside edges they can annex for this exact reason.

This new resort isn't going to be right on top of Fort Wilderness. Chances are, you probably will never even notice it. Don't worry, we have many more Hoop Dee Doo's and Campfire Sing-A-Long's to come

 

[campingcorgi]

You can actually walk almost all the way up to the golf courses from FW. Just go to the pet walk on 1800 and take a right along the canal. Follow it down to the board gate, and there is the golf course. You can see the golfers and golf carts. Maybe we can watch the resort go up on our dog walks. However, if those construction guys get too close to my beloved Fort Wilderness, I'll have to sic my aging corgi on them!!

 

[Colson39]

You can actually walk almost all the way up to the golf courses from FW. Just go to the pet walk on 1800 and take a right along the canal. Follow it down to the board gate, and there is the golf course. You can see the golfers and golf carts. Maybe we can watch the resort go up on our dog walks. However, if those construction guys get too close to my beloved Fort Wilderness, I'll have to sic my aging corgi on them!!

From what I've seen, the Four Seasons resort isn't going to be backed right up to Fort Wilderness. I don't think either resort would want that, especially Disney, since soon you're going to have people parking at the Four Seasons just to get to the Magic Kingdom (not that they don't do that at the Fort already :/ ).

I'm sure you'll be able to see something from somewhere, but it's not like there is going to be this massive 20 story building towering over Fort Wilderness all of a sudden. Just think how many people would start bringing BB Guns to their campsite....lol

 

[ftwildernessguy]

This discussion has been pretty interesting. From what I have read,however, the land is not being sold to four seasons, they are merely developing it through an agreement with the Disney Company. The concept of a hotel on Disney property owned and operated by another company is nothing new to WDW. The Swan and Dolphin and Shades of Green have such an arrangement, and have had for years and - guess what- the world didn't come to an end. When FW was built, there was no WL. That was constructed within eyeshot of FW and - guess what - the world didn't come to an end. The golf course has been within spitting distance of FW for years and most probably didn't even know it. I have even picked up golf balls in the dog walk area adjacent to the kennels. Check out Google Earth to see how close that hole is to the parking lot at FW. I guess my main concern would be the traffic flow and the effect that would have on FW traffic, but Disney has traditionally handled these problems pretty well. If WDW's intention was to eliminate FW in favor of this resort, then why aren't they shutting down FW right now and building this resort on FW property?

 

[hatchmo]

Here's why I'm still nervous.

1. We who use and love FW are a miniscule percentage of those who come to WDW. Losing our business is no big loss in the overall scheme of things. Loss of the campground is no big financial loss to Disney.

2. A luxury Resort will pull in many more people and dollars to Disney than a campground.

3. Campgrounds in the Orlando area are disappearing rapidly in favor of permanent housing, hotels, shopping areas,etc. Much better bottom line.

4. A well-developed water-front on a very large lake with easy access to the Parks is a big plus, and maybe even a necessity, for a luxury resort.

5. Iger, Jobs, and the rest of the current Board will make a decision strictly on the basis of what brings in the most money. As a stockholder, I appreciate that. But as one who spends two to three months a year at the Fort, I'm frightened.

PLEASE, doesn't anyone who reads this have a definitive, non-speculating answer about the location of the Resort? We're all guessing, but the "suits" must know where it is going by now.

 

[Colson39]

Here's why I'm still nervous.

1. We who use and love FW are a miniscule percentage of those who come to WDW. Losing our business is no big loss in the overall scheme of things. Loss of the campground is no big financial loss to Disney.

2. A luxury Resort will pull in many more people and dollars to Disney than a campground.

3. Campgrounds in the Orlando area are disappearing rapidly in favor of permanent housing, hotels, shopping areas,etc. Much better bottom line.

4. A well-developed water-front on a very large lake with easy access to the Parks is a big plus, and maybe even a necessity, for a luxury resort.

5. Iger, Jobs, and the rest of the current Board will make a decision strictly on the basis of what brings in the most money. As a stockholder, I appreciate that. But as one who spends two to three months a year at the Fort, I'm frightened.

PLEASE, doesn't anyone who reads this have a definitive, non-speculating answer about the location of the Resort? We're all guessing, but the "suits" must know where it is going by now.

Yes, it's not going on Fort Wilderness property, and that's all we care about...lol.

I still don't see why everyone keeps on thinking that they would "replace" Fort Wilderness with a luxury resort. Especially when you talk about a waterfront resort with access to the Magic Kingdom.

WHY tear down Fort Wilderness and replace it, when there is TONS of open land around the lake. I mean, you could fit 10 resorts easy just on the Fort Wilderness side of the lake, maybe even more. So why would you get rid of the Fort, when you can just build in another location, and have revenue from BOTH places. Plus, why spend all the money to tear down the Fort, when all you have to do in another location is cut down trees and level the land. It would be much more expensive to get rid of Fort Wilderness than to just build in one of the hundred other locations around the lake.

It just makes no sense. Why would you take ONE revenue stream over TWO revenue streams?

 

[surferrat]

Ok going to try and put some minds at ease here.

During our last visit which was during the Prevost Meet and Greet, I made a comment to a friend who works on the development side of Disney about how it took me a frustrating 20-25 min. to back my 28' TT up. (If you saw my trip report you know why .

Anyway I mentioned how difficult for ME it would be to back one of the Prevost up and how I would just park the dang thing in the middle of street. He informed me that they will begin, ( no date given, and exactly where ), making a new loop which will have sites that will fit the bigger rigs. All he could say was that this loop would have more space in order for these big rigs to back in and manuever around.

The day before we left on the way back from the MK, I over heard the same conversation between a ferry CM and a camper. He was discussing how it was difficult for him to back his big rig and wished the roads were not so narrow. The CM basically said that this is why construction on a new loop will be starting in the new future to make things easier.

Now..again this could always change and nothing is set in stone, but like Colson and Ftwildernessguy, closing Ft. Wilderness is not something we should worry about, because it caters to those who prefer the outdoors and it is one of the highest rated campsites. Tearing up Ft. Wilderness and replacing it would cost too much money and think about the upgrades they have made to some of the bath houses. If you are gonna tear something down why are you bothering with upgrading it?