What does Disney Owe "Us"?

[pjweaver]

I remember the days when EMH were almost empty but now with the addition of so many rooms and DVC being a captured audience it isn't the value it used to be. EPCOT is my favorite park but last Easter both Soarin' and Frozen were closed and at opening TT was an hour wait. The entertainment has been slashed in WS. I used to love the WS players. In the afternoon you could move from one thing to another but walking there now it is very quiet with no one standing rather just walking through.

Entertainment for many doesn't rely on rides. Some of my fondest memories involved rotating between Off Kilter, Rose and Crown Pub with the Hat Lady, and British Invasion. We spent well over $100 on pints and Disney made their money. What has replaced acts like these fall below the standard we came to expect for our dollar, and that's if they were replaced at all.

 

[Sean91]

Entertainment for many doesn't rely on rides. Some of my fondest memories involved rotating between Off Kilter, Rose and Crown Pub with the Hat Lady, and British Invasion. We spent well over $100 on pints and Disney made their money. What has replaced acts like these fall below the standard we came to expect for our dollar, and that's if they were replaced at all.

The main reason to go to EPCOT was always the atmosphere and on our last trip we felt like it had lost a little of that, mainly because of the lack of all the entertainment when compared to what used to be there. It's the wrong place to make cuts IMO. I understand probably more has been cut from HS entertainment budget but that has all the E list attractions to make up for it, what does EPCOT have? During the year that Soarin' was down it was only Test Track and Mission Space

 

[OhioStateBuckeye]

What does Disney owe me?

For the prices I pay, I feel they owe me...

Clean and well maintained parks and hotel rooms. A pleasant and knowledgeable interaction with the cast members. A safe day (I feel they do this very well with ride safety and by policing all the guests).

High quality meals, due to the price. This is the one that is probably the most questionable. I actually think they do a pretty decent job with food at certain places, but there are certainly meals that are not worth the price.

Since it is Disney, over the years I have also come to expect a quality story telling element with everything in the parks and the hotels.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

Entertainment for many doesn't rely on rides. Some of my fondest memories involved rotating between Off Kilter, Rose and Crown Pub with the Hat Lady, and British Invasion. We spent well over $100 on pints and Disney made their money. What has replaced acts like these fall below the standard we came to expect for our dollar, and that's if they were replaced at all.

EPCOT used to be so lively I could spend the whole day there. Instead of replacing Maelstrom why not increase capacity and ADD something. We are just back from DLR and there was so much to do. Carsland is AWESOME. If there was enough to do then there wouldn't be tiering. Half of the the attractions are only available for FP once a day. Do I want to use two days of FP+ because "gasp" I want to see the new frozen ride AND the new Soarin' without a two hour wait. Is that really so unreasonable?

My 60 day window opened ironically while I was at DLR so the night before I booked 3 FP+ at Epcot only one of which was a headliner then I headed out to DCA for EMH and rode Soarin' TWICE and RSR 3 times, once during EMH and two with FP-, BTMRR, California Screamin', TSMM and with only 20 minute waits Luigi's and Mater because there is no FP. There is so much more capacity per park that EMH is still a viable option. WDW added so many rooms without increasing capacity. Yes, WDW is crowded but it is much more crowded then in years past without adding capacity.

I understand the frustration -but this is Disney's M.O. ....they're ok if they lose you, someone else is on your heels that won't even know the perk existed.

But for how long? When is the tipping point that turns the first time visitor into a life long fan? If I had my first trip in the last couple of years I'm not sure I would feel the same about WDW because I remember EMH as being almost empty and when during crowded times of the year they would expand hours to spread the crowd. I remember a couple of years when, not only did they have direct buses to the WPs, they had EMH every morning at the Waterparks to disperse the crowd.

When they stop caring about the guest experience they may with their advertising continue to get "once in a lifetime" visitors but will they turn them into life long, take their kids once a year and then their grandkids visitors? There is always the smug fan with the "it is WDW of course it is crowded" but that isn't always true. I remember the slow times in Sept and early Dec that you could go and have a relatively easy time. You just needed to be able to manage it but that is impossible with the cuts they've been making.

WDW also survives on word of mouth. I get asked all the time to help plan trips and I'm not as "this is the best thing ever" enthusiast.

 

[GAN]

E
But for how long? When is the tipping point that turns the first time visitor into a life long fan? If I had my first trip in the last couple of years I'm not sure I would feel the same about WDW because I remember EMH as being almost empty and when during crowded times of the year they would expand hours to spread the crowd. I remember a couple of years when, not only did they have direct buses to the WPs, they had EMH every morning at the Waterparks to disperse the crowd.

The key is when you say "I remember" ...and you are correct. But the "First Time Visitor" has a new point of reference -they have no idea what you remember. So if you've been visiting for say 10-years ...there is no way you know how it was for me 30-years ago. But 10-years ago, I had already begun thinking like you!

 

[MaryKatesMom]

The key is when you say "I remember" ...and you are correct. But the "First Time Visitor" has a new point of reference -they have no idea what you remember. So if you've been visiting for say 10-years ...there is no way you know how it was for me 30-years ago. But 10-years ago, I had already begun thinking like you!

True but I don't remember any negativity on these boards until the last 5 or so years. Plus, it has been reported that attendance has increased over the last several years and room capacity has also increased. So yes, it is more crowded than 30 years ago, and 25 years ago, and 15 years ago and so on. So when does it become too crowded for first time visitors?

I came away thinking and thanks to these boards that a trip was manageable but the complexity of a well run trip has increased exponentially and we had the advantage of being experienced travelers. Have you tried to explain to a compete newbie about how to go online a midnight at 60 days to get FP+?

 

[GAN]

I came away thinking and thanks to these boards that a trip was manageable but the complexity of a well run trip has increased exponentially and we had the advantage of being experienced travelers. Have you tried to explain to a compete newbie about how to go online a midnight at 60 days to get FP+?

Yeah ...very true. I rarely, if ever, give advice to newbies -there is just waaayyyy too much to it now. I barely get my hands around it -I just figured I was getting old!

 

[DanInMN]

Disney has a big challenge (Universal) and a big opportunity (current crowds). The crowds, plus new things at Universal, are driving many guests away - or at least limiting visitor-days. They can continue to limit crowds by raising prices, or they can increase capacity to retain and increase guests. Although they are freshening DS, and adding Avatar to AK, much can be done to Epcot and even MK. They are in a great position to build the brand through improved experiences and capacity. But if they wait too long, the word will get out that better vacations are found elsewhere.

So what do they owe me? The best vacation experience in the world, because at their prices I have lots of other options.

 

[adisneyaunt]

It's a business, I get it
But
Their Business model has always been about What we can Expect as guests..
stellar customer service, all the commercials/ads/promos ( year of a million dreams or whatever... )

so the Guests Expectations are set High as they are directly related to what Disney has lead many to believe..
it's Fantasy/happy/utopia and it's all positive and good..
Well... not Exactly, lol

 

[Westcoastwild]

Depends on what you mean by "owe". I agree that they need to live up to their own rhetoric about customer service. They need to provide services suitable to their various price points. Because as someone else said- there are a lot of other places you could go with the money.

But I also agree with the person that said upthread that their target audience is not the fans. It's the families with children, and while Disney clearly wants to continue to market themselves as a multigenerational trip, they aren't ever going to stray away from that target audience. They know they'll lose families with teens to Universal. They aren't really trying to compete with Universal. I definitely think it's more that Universal is trying to compete with them. Maybe Universal will pull ahead and Disney will start to spiral downward. But I just don't think that has happened yet. People have said they can go other places. Well, Disney isn't stopping you and most people DO go other places. People have said Disney has to live up to its own media image. C'mon. Who here really believes Disney parks are a Utopia where nothing bad can happen and you'll always be happy? They're amusement parks.

And as someone who likes Disney but is not really a believer in pixie dust- I think that some Disney fanatics are their own worst enemies. I see some of craziest, most entitled stuff on these forums. I did the math for a AP. I'd have to go on at least 2 1 week trips to pay that puppy off. 14 calendar days a year. If you go that much, of course you're going to feel like they aren't updating fast enough. Of course you're going to have some days where you encounter less than magical CMs. Of course you're going to get tired of the rides and the food. And as much power as APHs have, it's limited. Disney is well aware that we returnees spend less money. They have a harder time upselling us. In California, especially, I'm fairly sure the most money they get out of the locals is the AP. The APs are their bread and butter- it's necessary to keep them in the mood to come back- but the tourists are their cash cow.

Anyway. We are owed what we actually pay for. A clean room, an edible dinner, a day at the park, recompense if something goes wrong and Disney is at fault. But we aren't owed ridiculous upgrades or champagne service on a value resort budget or "pixie" dust or towel animals or short lines or the right to break the rules. (For every person that has a valid complaint, there are 10 people at WDW today arguing with the bus driver over whether they have to take their kid out of the stroller and fold it in order to board the bus. And people seriously wonder why the buses can take a little longer!)

 

[Sparkly]

I came up with a good analogy:

Say you listen to a song right? You absolutely love it, it's the best song ever. You love it so much you decide to listen to it once every hour for the next 7 days. The first couple of hours are wonderful and you get a big smile on your face when the song comes on. By hour 6 your enthusiasm starts to fade. Hour 8 you start to notice little things wrong with it- maybe the singer is a tiny bit flat, maybe the refrain is a bit repetitive. By day 3 you're completely sick of it, but you found this great new song....and it repeats.

Yes I know a song isn't likely to cost you $4000 a go so not entirely perfect, but IDK.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I came up with a good analogy:

Say you listen to a song right? You absolutely love it, it's the best song ever. You love it so much you decide to listen to it once every hour for the next 7 days. The first couple of hours are wonderful and you get a big smile on your face when the song comes on. By hour 6 your enthusiasm starts to fade. Hour 8 you start to notice little things wrong with it- maybe the singer is a tiny bit flat, maybe the refrain is a bit repetitive. By day 3 you're completely sick of it, but you found this great new song....and it repeats.

Yes I know a song isn't likely to cost you $4000 a go so not entirely perfect, but IDK.

While I understand your analogy I will disagree. If WDW had remained the same I would have happily kept whistling their tune.

However, serious changes in the last few years have negatively impacted my visits. Epcot WS has always been my favorite place in the world and while attendance has increased entertainment has been slashed. My day had always started with 2 Soarin's and 2 TT's utilizing FP-. Then they instituted the ride redistribution system and I have to chose. And last year when both Soarin' and Maelstrom were offline I only went there to eat.

Increasing the cost of tables in Wonderland while adding blackout dates and restaurants didn't help the situation either. Paying more for less seems to be a trend.