What does Disney Owe "Us"?

There are many kinds of relationships - family, friends, co-workers, neighbors, for example. Our relationship with Disney is a business relationship. We are buying entertainment, but it is a specific brand that has defined itself as unique, artistic, quality oriented, and most importantly emotional. All parties in relationships have responsibilities. That is, we do owe the other party something and we are in turn owed something. Everyone needs to feel like they got an fair deal. You agree to pay the going price for a deluxe hotel room and you expect (are owed) an experience that at minimum matches the industry standard. When everyone feels that they have received fair compensation for their contribution, then the relationship is good. When one party feels under-compensated (disappointed) then the relationship either is adjusted or it ends. The issue that I see with people who are dissatisfied with their Disney transaction is that they feel cheated emotionally. There is a sense of betrayal. The promise was quality and the food was cold, the bathroom dirty, the parks crowded, the carpeting worn, the cast members lack enthusiasm. People who have years of experience as guest have a point of reference that others do not have. They have a longer, deeper relationship and higher expectations. The tricky part of these conversations is that they are not based on purely rational measures. There is no way to quantify the issue other than to look at the numbers at the turnstiles and hotel occupancy. I can answer the original question with certainty. Disney DOES owe guests something. If it didn't, then it would not be a healthy relationship, but a very abusive, one-sided relationship. Maybe that is what some people are starting to perceive.
 
There are many kinds of relationships - family, friends, co-workers, neighbors, for example. Our relationship with Disney is a business relationship. We are buying entertainment, but it is a specific brand that has defined itself as unique, artistic, quality oriented, and most importantly emotional. All parties in relationships have responsibilities. That is, we do owe the other party something and we are in turn owed something. Everyone needs to feel like they got an fair deal. You agree to pay the going price for a deluxe hotel room and you expect (are owed) an experience that at minimum matches the industry standard. When everyone feels that they have received fair compensation for their contribution, then the relationship is good. When one party feels under-compensated (disappointed) then the relationship either is adjusted or it ends. The issue that I see with people who are dissatisfied with their Disney transaction is that they feel cheated emotionally. There is a sense of betrayal. The promise was quality and the food was cold, the bathroom dirty, the parks crowded, the carpeting worn, the cast members lack enthusiasm. People who have years of experience as guest have a point of reference that others do not have. They have a longer, deeper relationship and higher expectations. The tricky part of these conversations is that they are not based on purely rational measures. There is no way to quantify the issue other than to look at the numbers at the turnstiles and hotel occupancy. I can answer the original question with certainty. Disney DOES owe guests something. If it didn't, then it would not be a healthy relationship, but a very abusive, one-sided relationship. Maybe that is what some people are starting to perceive.
VERY well stated!!
 
So in the most broadest terms my answer is Disney owes us nothing. The only thing Disney is out to do is make the most amount of money for their share holders and that's it. They are publicly traded so that is reality.

Now, the minutia of the situation. Disney can not do what they owe to their share holders if they alienate themselves from their solid consumer. The solid consumer is not those of us here and other (dare I say it) "rabid" Disney fans. The solid consumer is families with children ages 3-7. Of course they have adult consumers, single consumers, etc but Disney will service just fine if they lose the single adult consumers as long as families are churning out money for their children.

On the parks specifically changing the parks in a way that the extreme consumer dislikes will not hurt them unless it starts to alienate the people that are their core. I haven't seen anything really do that yet.
 


The best way I can put it is look at what universal has become. They are what disney once was with how they are constantly changing it, keeping up the number of attractions and keeping them refreshed to continue to be exciting a decade or two later. refurbing the swiss family treehouse was a waste of time and money for example. it should have been replaced.

I understand the nostalgia argument. I went to Universal for the first time in January. It is really an amazing park. In future years, I may get a Universal annual pass rather than Disney. I'm a DVC member who loves Harry Potter and roller coasters. I really felt the employees at Universal made our visit special. I can't say I feel the same at Disney. I love Epcot, but I get bored with the rides. Maybe I'm just not the market Disney is catering to, but I would think they would want to make teens and DINKS happy too. Maybe there will be more attractions for those groups with Pandora and Star Wars.
 
Now, the minutia of the situation. Disney can not do what they owe to their share holders if they alienate themselves from their solid consumer. The solid consumer is not those of us here and other (dare I say it) "rabid" Disney fans. The solid consumer is families with children ages 3-7. Of course they have adult consumers, single consumers, etc but Disney will service just fine if they lose the single adult consumers as long as families are churning out money for their children.

On the parks specifically changing the parks in a way that the extreme consumer dislikes will not hurt them unless it starts to alienate the people that are their core. I haven't seen anything really do that yet.

I'm not sure WDW would survive if they completely depended on families with children. I haven't heard this in awhile but it was for a long time the number one honeymoon destination. We did 25 years ago. If you watch the Saturday Strolls I see more adults than families with children.

I remember the days when EMH were almost empty but now with the addition of so many rooms and DVC being a captured audience it isn't the value it used to be. EPCOT is my favorite park but last Easter both Soarin' and Frozen were closed and at opening TT was an hour wait. The entertainment has been slashed in WS. I used to love the WS players. In the afternoon you could move from one thing to another but walking there now it is very quiet with no one standing rather just walking through.
 
Maybe so ....but does anyone believe that they PURPOSELY set the price low just to raise it? I think they priced it at "fair value" and when it caught fire, it became a money grab.

I think they made a best guess estimate on the value of the option and priced it at that during the test period. Once they saw the demand for it they raised the price to better represent the demand level.

I think something missed in these discussions is that Disney prices these extras in a way to eliminated a portion of the demand. They would rather have less people paying more per transaction because that keeps the demand lower while not lowering revenue. If everyone decided to buy the transportation option it would lose a very big part of it's benefit. It is a good option because a lower number of people use it.
 


I think something missed in these discussions is that Disney prices these extras in a way to eliminated a portion of the demand. They would rather have less people paying more per transaction because that keeps the demand lower while not lowering revenue. If everyone decided to buy the transportation option it would lose a very big part of it's benefit. It is a good option because a lower number of people use it.

True ...there needs to be a balance. They want capacity to the point where they don't need to add buses(in this case) ..adding an extra bus due to demand and filling it 25% blows their "profit"
 
I'm not sure WDW would survive if they completely depended on families with children. I haven't heard this in awhile but it was for a long time the number one honeymoon destination. We did 25 years ago. If you watch the Saturday Strolls I see more adults than families with children.

I remember the days when EMH were almost empty but now with the addition of so many rooms and DVC being a captured audience it isn't the value it used to be. EPCOT is my favorite park but last Easter both Soarin' and Frozen were closed and at opening TT was an hour wait. The entertainment has been slashed in WS. I used to love the WS players. In the afternoon you could move from one thing to another but walking there now it is very quiet with no one standing rather just walking through.

I think if they only went for families with children they would be fine. Yes they do have an adult consumer base for some things but the parks would still be full if only families with children came. I can't imagine WDW being the #1 honeymoon destination. I'm planning mine now and WDW was not even on any list I've seen. Yes it is a common spot but not like Hawaii or the Caribbean which seems to be where everyone goes. Again it is more of a ranking of who they would have to see as their biggest earner with consumer bases and I believe families are and have always been their biggest money makers.
 
Disney owes me and my family great entertainment value for my dollars, and I think they provide that. They can offer other things that I personally don't see value in (like a dessert party), but then I am not forced to buy that.

Yes, it is expensive, but I plan my trips on my budget .. not on what I "WANT" to do.
 
True ...there needs to be a balance. They want capacity to the point where they don't need to add buses(in this case) ..adding an extra bus due to demand and filling it 25% blows their "profit"

That and if the lines get long and people are stuck waiting for multiple buses the benefit of cutting transportation time starts to erode.
 
Having listened to many of the podcasts, and like most of us being a lifelong lover of Disney World, I have often asked myself the following question: What does Disney owe us?

I usually ask myself this after I find myself getting upset with a decision to change an aspect of the parks that I have always enjoyed, or when I hear complaints about the quality of a meal (Pete and his love of Hollywood and Vine). I think many us assume that Disney owes us based on the amount of passion and money that we or others pour into our hobby. However, it is a business, and oodles of business prevent Disney from caring too much about our expectations. It's bad business to invest a dollar more than necessary to maximize profit. That being said, why do we feel Disney owes us? What about it is different than every other business that operates in the same manner? And how can we reconcile what we feel Disney owes us with the fact that Disney is a business which must maximize profitability (short term and long term.)

I think it is fascinating, and am curious to get others' thoughts. Even more so since we as Disney loyalists will inevitably forgive Disney for almost any imaginable "transgression," we arguably have the least amount of power to enact change.

I feel Disney (and any business, really), "owes" us a quality of product commensurate with what they charge for the product. I understand that they're a business and their job is to maximize profit, and I don't begrudge them that. I'm willing to shell out the money for a commensurate experience.

Unfortunately, I don't believe the overall experience at WDW has been living up to the constant price increases. Yes, we still had fun on our 2014 trip, but there were definitely things that took away from our trip that hadn't previously. We've since chosen to go to DLR instead of WDW, and feel that the increase in cost we take on to choose DLR (we're on the east coast) is worth it for the far better experience we've consistently had there. We'll continue making that choice for as long as we can. DD is entering school age soon, so that may force us to stick to the east coast before we'd otherwise choose to.
 
I don't think we are all that powerful. For everyone of us that decides to spend money elsewhere, there is a new generation of babies being born, with new parents, who are ready to take our place.

All one has to do is look at Disneyland to see how powerful that customers can be. Disney announced that Aladdin the Musical was closing somewhere around 2008/2009ish. The backlash that they received from the local AP base made Disney reverse their decision, and Aladdin stuck around for another 8 years or so. At DLR and WDW (I think it was both...it was at least WDW) - they took photopass photographers away from the BBB experience (they stopped taking photos *during* the makeover process, only took them after). There was enough backlash that Disney backtracked and returned the photographers to the entire experience.

I feel like this happens more at DLR than WDW because DLR is more reliant on the AP base than WDW is. But, with the current state of the world and international travel potentially decreasing, WDW may find themselves a bit more reliant on locals and domestic travel than they have otherwise been recently.
 
Having listened to many of the podcasts, and like most of us being a lifelong lover of Disney World, I have often asked myself the following question: What does Disney owe us?

I usually ask myself this after I find myself getting upset with a decision to change an aspect of the parks that I have always enjoyed, or when I hear complaints about the quality of a meal (Pete and his love of Hollywood and Vine). I think many us assume that Disney owes us based on the amount of passion and money that we or others pour into our hobby. However, it is a business, and oodles of business prevent Disney from caring too much about our expectations. It's bad business to invest a dollar more than necessary to maximize profit. That being said, why do we feel Disney owes us? What about it is different than every other business that operates in the same manner? And how can we reconcile what we feel Disney owes us with the fact that Disney is a business which must maximize profitability (short term and long term.)

I think it is fascinating, and am curious to get others' thoughts. Even more so since we as Disney loyalists will inevitably forgive Disney for almost any imaginable "transgression," we arguably have the least amount of power to enact change.

It's interesting you're raising this question now since I'm currently struggling with disappointment with Disney for the first time in my life. I think, like all businesses, Disney owes us value for money. And I think there's a stronger emotional attachment to - and therefore expectation from - Disney than other companies because that's part of the product they're selling. They're selling magic, imagination, excellence, they're selling "believe in yourself", "believe in your dreams", "see what a little wishing can do", "it all started with a mouse" etc...it's a company that's selling certain values and outlooks, so when you feel like they're penny pinching at the expense of the guests' experience it's offensive.

For me, I'm completely happy paying the the high Disney prices because it's always worth it for me. What has me disappointed right now is the cancellation of resort busses to the water parks (I only found out about it now). When they're charging an arm and a leg for a stay at their resorts my expectation is top service. Instead, they've raised the prices and cut back on an important amenity just to save a few bucks. This just rubs me the wrong way and I think it's not a smart business move. I know it seems small and silly, but it feels to me like a symptom of a bigger problem in management and it also will have a real negative impact on our next vacation since we love the water parks and rely on the buses to get there.

So I think they owe me value for money and living up to their promise of top notch guest service
 
It's interesting you're raising this question now since I'm currently struggling with disappointment with Disney for the first time in my life. I think, like all businesses, Disney owes us value for money. And I think there's a stronger emotional attachment to - and therefore expectation from - Disney than other companies because that's part of the product they're selling. They're selling magic, imagination, excellence, they're selling "believe in yourself", "believe in your dreams", "see what a little wishing can do", "it all started with a mouse" etc...it's a company that's selling certain values and outlooks, so when you feel like they're penny pinching at the expense of the guests' experience it's offensive.

For me, I'm completely happy paying the the high Disney prices because it's always worth it for me. What has me disappointed right now is the cancellation of resort busses to the water parks (I only found out about it now). When they're charging an arm and a leg for a stay at their resorts my expectation is top service. Instead, they've raised the prices and cut back on an important amenity just to save a few bucks. This just rubs me the wrong way and I think it's not a smart business move. I know it seems small and silly, but it feels to me like a symptom of a bigger problem in management and it also will have a real negative impact on our next vacation since we love the water parks and rely on the buses to get there.

So I think they owe me value for money and living up to their promise of top notch guest service

I understand the frustration -but this is Disney's M.O. ....they're ok if they lose you, someone else is on your heels that won't even know the perk existed.
 
I understand the frustration -but this is Disney's M.O. ....they're ok if they lose you, someone else is on your heels that won't even know the perk existed.

You're right, but I don't think it should be that way, it definitely doesn't have to be that way to be a huge money maker and that's not how Disney has branded itself over the years...that's what's upsetting to me about it.
 
When I say Im a big Disney fan thats an understatement. I live in Ma and go to Orlando 3-4 times a year. My house is decorated with Disney art and my xmas tree is Disney exclusive...with that being said.... when Disney raises their prices I could care less cuz I will never stop going till Im put in the ground one day.... Disney knows that the hardcore fanbase will never stop going so maybe they dont live up to their usual standard these days but the turnstiles keep turnin!
 

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