What do you wish was socially acceptable?

[NannyBeBe]

Men treating women like ladies -- opening doors, helping with their coat, rising when they enter the room, etc. That's how it used to be but these days many women consider those things to be demeaning for some reason.

 

[mrodgers]

Well - in New England, dudes will wear shorts out in public if the temperature is above 30 degrees.

I just mentioned this in the "normal at home" thread. Why do people dress up to survive the Arctic for the 13 seconds to walk to your car which is blasting the heat to 100° and the 30 seconds to get into the blazing hot stores? I rarely wear long pants in the winter.

 

[mrodgers]

This guy had 1 pair of pants he wore for "special occasions"

LOL, I have 1 pair of nice jeans for "special occasions". I don't have any non-jeans pants as the last time I wore them was 10 years ago and they won't fit now. Pants are single use for me when I have to go to a funeral and I have to buy a new pair that fit every time.

 

[BrianL]

Refusing to drink alcohol

I'm with you and the others who have chimed in. I don't drink and never have - it just doesn't appeal to me - and the amount of grief and social pressure I've been given is ridiculous! Sometimes I just get genuine questions about why, but they still don't understand. I once told my boss after he asked and asked, "Let me tell you a story about how alcohol ruined my marriage, burned my house down and killed my dog." He leaned back and seaid "Really?" And I told him no, but that he'd feel pretty bad if it were true. I shouldn't have to make excuses or give reasons. When offered a drink, I simply give a, "no thanks." That should be enough, but it rarely is.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Men treating women like ladies -- opening doors, helping with their coat, rising when they enter the room, etc. That's how it used to be but these days many women consider those things to be demeaning for some reason.

Good manners should never be considered demeaning. Etiquette is becoming extinct. It's a bit sad in my opinion.

 

[1GoldenSun]

Women not shaving their legs.

With the combination of rarely going out in public these days and it being winter so it's cool enough even in Florida to wear long pants when I do go out, I gave not shaving a try. I haven't shaved my legs since around Thanksgiving and I love the way it feels. My husband...well, I don't think he loves it but he would never say so; he just says I should do what makes me happy.

I'm not even really very hairy, apparently, but I'd be too embarrassed to go out in public with hairy legs.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Men treating women like ladies -- opening doors, helping with their coat, rising when they enter the room, etc. That's how it used to be but these days many women consider those things to be demeaning for some reason.

Good manners should never be considered demeaning. Etiquette is becoming extinct. It's a bit sad in my opinion.

Ahhh.. but y'all that was the thing socially done for generations because the idea was women were this women were that. This thread is about what you wish was socially acceptable you're asking things to not change and adjust and move as the times change.

I'll spin it and say I wish it was socially acceptable for it NOT to be considered gender specific.

See I was taught to hold doors open for people in general..I'm a woman. That is about manners. I would help out anyone with a coat if need be. I've done that with my husband at times. That is about manners. I don't help out all the time, there's no need to. I know y'all are talking about always helping the woman out.

Etiquette that's more tied to rising when someone enters a room.

But again y'all what you're talking about was the thing to do socially for so many generations. So my spin is to say I would want it to be socially acceptable to not define something such that you're talking about based on gender AND for something to change and it not be automatically discussed as if changing what is done means you lack manners and etiquette and most certainly that the change is viewed as sad.

FTR I really don't know anyone who views it as demeaning, not caring whatsoever about someone rising when you enter the room, or not actually needing help with a coat doesn't equate demeaning. None of the women I know view it as demeaning, I'm sure some do though.

 

[Moliphino]

Men treating women like ladies -- opening doors, helping with their coat, rising when they enter the room, etc. That's how it used to be but these days many women consider those things to be demeaning for some reason.

Not so much demeaning as awkward and put on the spot. I don't like that much attention.
And you should hold open doors for anyone following close enough behind you or who has their hands full, not just women.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Ahhh.. but y'all that was the thing socially done for generations because the idea was women were this women were that. This thread is about what you wish was socially acceptable you're asking things to not change and adjust and move as the times change.

I'll spin it and say I wish it was socially acceptable for it NOT to be considered gender specific.

See I was taught to hold doors open for people in general..I'm a woman. That is about manners. I would help out anyone with a coat if need be. I've done that with my husband at times. That is about manners. I don't help out all the time, there's no need to. I know y'all are talking about always helping the woman out.

Etiquette that's more tied to rising when someone enters a room.

But again y'all what you're talking about was the thing to do socially for so many generations. So my spin is to say I would want it to be socially acceptable to not define something such that you're talking about based on gender AND for something to change and it not be automatically discussed as if changing what is done means you lack manners and etiquette and most certainly that the change is viewed as sad.

FTR I really don't know anyone who views it as demeaning, not caring whatsoever about someone rising when you enter the room, or not actually needing help with a coat doesn't equate demeaning. None of the women I know view it as demeaning, I'm sure some do though.

I also rise to greet anyone, also hold open the door, help with a chair, etc. it's called being kind and/or considerate. I was including women who are offended bu almost any respectful gesture. We live in a society where it supposed to be degrading to women...at least to some. Yes...I know some of these women who are offended. Also men who no longer do it so they don't offend. Personally I find it sad.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I also rise to greet anyone, also hold open the door, help with a door, etc. it's called being kind and/or considerate. I was including women who are offended bu almost any respectful gesture. We live in a society where it supposed to be degrading to women...at least to some. Yes...I know some of these women who are offended. Also men who no longer do it so they don't offend. Personally I find it sad.

I would totally agree it's kind and considerate but none of that was in your comment. It was in response to gender specific stuff. Some women make a stink about it, but then again seeing posters demean women who specifically demean the practice..IDK not sure it bolsters the viewpoint

 

[kimj88]

I would say just being an introvert. I don't need to be fixed, thank you very much.

This, oh boy this big time!!!!!

 

[GreatLakes]

Also, speaking frankly about how hard parenting is, and not judging moms for not loving every second of motherhood. It should be perfectly acceptable to say my kid is being a butthole today, bc let’s face it. Sometimes kids just suck. Doesn’t mean we don’t love them with every fiber of our being, but it’s perfectly normal to not love being a parent every second of every day.

You must hang out with the wrong crowd. Talking about what a pain in the **** our kids are is at least 25% of any conversation in our group between people with kids.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I would totally agree it's kind and considerate but none of that was in your comment. It was in response to gender specific stuff. Some women make a stink about it, but then again seeing posters demean women who specifically demean the practice..IDK not sure it bolsters the viewpoint

I think you read something into my comment that wasn't there but so be it.

 

[dez1978]

You must hang out with the wrong crowd. Talking about what a pain in the **** our kids are is at least 25% of any conversation in our group between people with kids.

Oh, my actual friends and I talk about it quite a bit. But heaven forbid you make a FB post or comment on a "mom" group and the Karen's come running at you with pitchforks lol. I just feel like there are so many ppl that only post the "perfect moments" on social media and never the real life, sucky parent moments, that for some moms, if you don't enjoy all of parenting you feel like there must be something wrong with you.

Also talking about Postpartum depression openly should be a thing. I had it horribly with my oldest and had no idea until it started to get better. I just spent almost a year thinking I was the worst mom ever and what a failure I was bc I didn't have that instant head over heels in love feeling the second he was born and everything just seemed so hard and awful. Turns out, I'm actually a halfway decent mom and I love my kids fiercely. Its just that my 1st kid was a super high needs baby and I was depressed.

 

[tzolkin]

I'm with you and the others who have chimed in. I don't drink and never have - it just doesn't appeal to me - and the amount of grief and social pressure I've been given is ridiculous!...
I shouldn't have to make excuses or give reasons. When offered a drink, I simply give a, "no thanks." That should be enough, but it rarely is.

It's just bizarre to me. I do drink and some of our hobbies include beer brewing and making our own ingredients for tiki drinks, so we are probably more "invested" in the experience of drinking than most. But I can't fathom commenting or bothering someone if they said "no" when I offered them a drink.

I don't know why anyone would care if someone else did not drink alcohol. Is it because they feel uncomfortable drinking in front of you because you're not consuming as well? Again, it just seems weird to me. Most people are fine with eating a food that someone else in their declines for whatever reason (allergy, vegetarian, etc). If I want to drink a coffee and you don't like coffee, why would I possibly care?

Oh, my actual friends and I talk about it quite a bit. But heaven forbid you make a FB post or comment on a "mom" group and the Karen's come running at you with pitchforks lol. I just feel like there are so many ppl that only post the "perfect moments" on social media and never the real life, sucky parent moments, that for some moms, if you don't enjoy all of parenting you feel like there must be something wrong with you.

Also talking about Postpartum depression openly should be a thing. I had it horribly with my oldest and had no idea until it started to get better. I just spent almost a year thinking I was the worst mom ever and what a failure I was bc I didn't have that instant head over heels in love feeling the second he was born and everything just seemed so hard and awful. Turns out, I'm actually a halfway decent mom and I love my kids fiercely. Its just that my 1st kid was a super high needs baby and I was depressed.

I agree with both of these. Yes, people complain about parenting in ways that are generic and socially acceptable ("mommy needs some wine"/"can't wait for the kids to go back to school"/"ugh, teenagers"), but I don't think people are willing to discuss actual issues that they fear others might judge them as "bad parents".

This tends to be quite bad among the moms who don't work full time and volunteer at school and such. I have had several conversations where I have told other moms that it's okay to not conform to what everyone in their circle believes are the expectations of being a "good" mom. It's like they need permission because all they've seen is everyone portraying their perfect families on social media. You do not have to drive your kids to school; they can ride the bus. Your kids don't have to do sports or 50 extracurricular activities if it's making you miserable and frazzled to coordinate their schedules and balance your home/family life. They can still turn out to be well-rounded and productive/happy people without. You do not need to pay for everything for your teens/young adults to prove that you care about them/put them first.

I had pretty severe PPD after my second child, so I was able to recognize it from a rational perspective since it was so different from my first. Even still I felt extremely guilty that I wasn't enjoying and making the most of the opportunity that I had to be a SAHM. (I worked multiple jobs and went to school FT with my first)

One thing my husband always tells every new parent/expecting couple that asks for advice is that there will come a moment of desperation where you are going to want to shake/throw/scream at your baby. He tells them this because it seems universally taught that only a "monster" would ever lose their temper with or abuse a baby/child. He believes that setting an expectation that it's normal and okay even for "good" loving parents to have those feelings on occasion makes it easier to deal with when the situation does arise and makes parents more likely to ask for help and not feel guilty. Usually the couple are a bit horrified and immediately put up the "I would never" defensiveness, but he goes ahead and gives them some advice for when (not if) it happens anyway. I'm pretty sure every person he has ever had that conversation with has brought it up within the first few months and were grateful for the warning. Typically it's "Remember that thing you told me about before the baby was born? Well, last night was the night. I instantly realized I was about to reach my breaking point like you said, so I calmly put the baby in the crib and went for a walk around the house/listened to music/called my sister/whatever."

 

[dez1978]

One thing my husband always tells every new parent/expecting couple that asks for advice is that there will come a moment of desperation where you are going to want to shake/throw/scream at your baby. He tells them this because it seems universally taught that only a "monster" would ever lose their temper with or abuse a baby/child. He believes that setting an expectation that it's normal and okay even for "good" loving parents to have those feelings on occasion makes it easier to deal with when the situation does arise and makes parents more likely to ask for help and not feel guilty.

Oh yes. So much this. I remember before kids having the "oh I would never!" feeling. About 2 months in with my 1st and I could absolutely understand it. Just the absolute feeling of despair and helplessness when you've done everything you can to try to quiet the screaming baby and nothing is helping and you are so exhausted you can't think straight. I firmly believe every parent feels this at least once and those who say they never did are either so far removed from it (their kids are grown and its been so long they don't remember or only want to remember the best parts) or were never the default parent, or they are lying. If it was ok to talk about these things the guilt would be so much less.

 

[BrianL]

It's just bizarre to me. I do drink and some of our hobbies include beer brewing and making our own ingredients for tiki drinks, so we are probably more "invested" in the experience of drinking than most. But I can't fathom commenting or bothering someone if they said "no" when I offered them a drink.

I don't know why anyone would care if someone else did not drink alcohol. Is it because they feel uncomfortable drinking in front of you because you're not consuming as well? Again, it just seems weird to me. Most people are fine with eating a food that someone else in their declines for whatever reason (allergy, vegetarian, etc). If I want to drink a coffee and you don't like coffee, why would I possibly care?

I think it's because of the negative aspects/associations with drinking. Certainly, in moderation in a responsible setting it's totally fine, and I think the people who drink that way don't so much have the problem with someone not partaking. It's when people are wanting to get drunk and use being drunk as an excuse for poor behavior (and many people do). They don't want to feel like they are doing something "wrong" and if you don't come along for the ride with them, then you are like the symbol that it is wrong. They perceive the non-drinker as judging them. Now, I will not judge them for drinking - but I will judge their behavior as I do with anybody whether they are drunk or not. Those who behave poorly are people I don't want to be around anyway.

I will say, it has become less of a problem within my own group as I have gotten older as opposed to say in my 20s, but it still comes up, especially in work settings. It always has.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Agree with the non drinking thing. I am ok with it but I will get a migraine and sometimes I just don't want one, the judgement for non drinking is unbelievable. I feel people push it to see if I am in detox or something, which makes my heart break for people who are trying to stay clean. If it's not this then I feel pushed because the people who do drink think I am disapproving... there is no win. Maybe I don't want to share that I get migraines but this seems to be the only way, so much peer pressure that I often give in, which is why I get the high fail rate for staying clean, the construct is mind numbing.

 

[disneychrista]

Women not shaving their legs.

Socially acceptable or not I don’t shave regularly. I like how it feel for a day or two but then my legs get itchy for a few days when the hair starts growing back in. Plus I see no reason to when no one sees my legs but me.

That said I did forget to shave when I had my annual women’s health appointment in September. It was a little embarrassing because as stated it isn’t socially accepted for women to have leg hair.

 

[ronandannette]

...Also talking about Postpartum depression openly should be a thing. I had it horribly with my oldest and had no idea until it started to get better. I just spent almost a year thinking I was the worst mom ever and what a failure I was bc I didn't have that instant head over heels in love feeling the second he was born and everything just seemed so hard and awful. Turns out, I'm actually a halfway decent mom and I love my kids fiercely. Its just that my 1st kid was a super high needs baby and I was depressed.

Absolutely. At least 3 people close to me had very, very grave outcomes due to untreated Postpartum depression. It's been a long time since I was a new mom - do doctors even give it enough emphasis these days?