What do you think was the ugliest car ever made ?

[Pea-n-Me]

Today, i go with any version of the Smart car.

I can't even look at those with a straight face.

I was in heavy traffic one night going into Boston when one came flying through, weaving in and out of traffic at a speed I didn't even think those things could go. Figured driver must've had a death wish.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I had two of these in college. Same color.

 

[Klayfish]

Looks aren't everything. I wasn't a fan of the looks of the Taurus/Sable (jelly bean shape) when they came out in 1986. But I have purchased 3 because they are nice driving, roomy, reliable cars. Still have 1, the other 2 were victims of accidents that left them totaled.

Aztek probably would be my number one pick, but reading some of the road tests, it was a pretty amazing vehicle to drive.

Gremlin. My best friend's parents bought one, 1974 Gremlin X with a 304 V-8. That car was FAST. SCARY FAST. And smooth. My friend and both his parents got speeding tickets in that car because you though were were going 55 and the red lights show up in the rear view mirror, and you'd look down and the needle was at 90.

Edsel. Well, when new, they were mocked. Today, hard to mock a car that sold new for $3,000 that is selling for close to $200,000 now. Highly collectible.

Pacer: Can't argue the looks, but the layout was amazing. Lots of room, passenger side door longer that the driver's door to make it easier to get in and out, and those bullet proof AMC engines.

Pinto: My first car. Had it 16 years. Reliable. Lots of exploding gas tank jokes that faded after the recall, and cooled when my friends who needed rides to the shop to pick up their VWs, Datsuns, and Toyotas.

Plymouth Valiant: Never thought about the looks. But the 1960's models probably were among the most reliable cars ever built. And I don't like Chrysler products. But those cars were amazing.

Perhaps time fades memories... if you think the Pacer was fast, I'd hate to take you for a ride in a modern Toyota Corolla. You'd pass out. Oh, and if you'd pay $200k for an Edsel, I'll happily go get one and sell it to you for that amount...

 

[Praying Colonel]

The Pacer, and I bought a used one at the time

I had a college roommate who had a bright yellow Pacer. We alternately called it "The Bubble" or "The Big Lemon."

 

[tvguy]

Perhaps time fades memories... if you think the Pacer was fast, I'd hate to take you for a ride in a modern Toyota Corolla. You'd pass out. Oh, and if you'd pay $200k for an Edsel, I'll happily go get one and sell it to you for that amount...

Gremlin, not Pacer, was fast. Wicked fast with the 304 V8.

Gremlin, 210 horsepower in a car that weighed 2633 pounds.
Your Corolla has 132 horsepower in a car weighing 2840 pounds

Didn't say I would pay $200,000 for an Edsel, just pointing out the some are selling for that. https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/edsel/ranger/2006150.html

 

[Klayfish]

Gremlin, not Pacer, was fast. Wicked fast with the 304 V8.

Gremlin, 210 horsepower in a car that weighed 2633 pounds.
Your Corolla has 132 horsepower in a car weighing 2840 pounds

Didn't say I would pay $200,000 for an Edsel, just pointing out the some are selling for that. https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/edsel/ranger/2006150.html

Sorry, I meant to say Gremlin...all the Pacer talk had me excited. Remember, this is the height of emissions. You had me curious, so I had to look it up as I didn't recall specific specs on the Gremlin X. The '74 Gremlin X w/304 engine option came from the factory with a whopping 150hp out of a single barrel carb...and a molasses slow 3 speed automatic or 3 speed manual. I doubt that combo would break 0-60 in 10 seconds. For '74 it was decent, but I wouldn't call it fast at all. Most cars today, even economy cars, are faster. When I was looking at them, I came across the Gremlin 401XR. Not a factory car, but an aftermarket dealer swap...made in very limited numbers. Maybe that's what you were thinking of.

Sure, if you point out the rarest of the rare Edsel, it may have a $200k asking price. But go check out the numbers on the much more common Ranger. Sells for far, far less.

 

[tvguy]

Sorry, I meant to say Gremlin...all the Pacer talk had me excited. Remember, this is the height of emissions. You had me curious, so I had to look it up as I didn't recall specific specs on the Gremlin X. The '74 Gremlin X w/304 engine option came from the factory with a whopping 150hp out of a single barrel carb...and a molasses slow 3 speed automatic or 3 speed manual. I doubt that combo would break 0-60 in 10 seconds. For '74 it was decent, but I wouldn't call it fast at all. Most cars today, even economy cars, are faster. When I was looking at them, I came across the Gremlin 401XR. Not a factory car, but an aftermarket dealer swap...made in very limited numbers. Maybe that's what you were thinking of.

Sure, if you point out the rarest of the rare Edsel, it may have a $200k asking price. But go check out the numbers on the much more common Ranger. Sells for far, far less.

All I know was it was fast...the Gremlin, that is. It was a factory stock 304 with an automatic. The tickets my friend and his parents got certainly is evidence of that. Certainly fuel injection is a big part of that, as well as computer controls.

As for the Edsel, even if you have junker, it's worth more today than it cost new.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Sorry, I meant to say Gremlin...all the Pacer talk had me excited. Remember, this is the height of emissions. You had me curious, so I had to look it up as I didn't recall specific specs on the Gremlin X. The '74 Gremlin X w/304 engine option came from the factory with a whopping 150hp out of a single barrel carb...and a molasses slow 3 speed automatic or 3 speed manual. I doubt that combo would break 0-60 in 10 seconds. For '74 it was decent, but I wouldn't call it fast at all. Most cars today, even economy cars, are faster. When I was looking at them, I came across the Gremlin 401XR. Not a factory car, but an aftermarket dealer swap...made in very limited numbers. Maybe that's what you were thinking of.

Sure, if you point out the rarest of the rare Edsel, it may have a $200k asking price. But go check out the numbers on the much more common Ranger. Sells for far, far less.

150 HP in a 2,700 lb car is probably going to be in the neighborhood of 7-7.5 seconds to 60, possibility quicker when combined with the torque of a V8. Not fast by today’s standards, but quicker than a Corolla.

 

[Klayfish]

All I know was it was fast...the Gremlin, that is.

Are you sure that's not just 1970's haze induced memories? I'm kidding, I'm kidding....

150 HP in a 2,700 lb car is probably going to be in the neighborhood of 7-7.5 seconds to 60, possibility quicker when combined with the torque of a V8. Not fast by today’s standards, but quicker than a Corolla.

The torque would help for sure, but I'd bet it took that 3 speed several seconds to shift from first to second. My current beater...which I'm getting rid of this week...woohoo...is a 2013 Hyundai Elantra. 148hp, 2700lbs and 6 speed manual trans. If I kill the clutch, maybe I can get it in the 8 second range. Even with torque, I think that 3 speed trans would really hold it back something ugly. Back in high school, a buddy had a '69 Firebird. Engine had been tricked out a bit, but it had that oh-so-dreadful 2 speed Powerglide trans. Just killed the low end acceleration...but the darn thing could do something like 70mph in first gear!!

 

[tvguy]

Are you sure that's not just 1970's haze induced memories? I'm kidding, I'm kidding....



The torque would help for sure, but I'd bet it took that 3 speed several seconds to shift from first to second. My current beater...which I'm getting rid of this week...woohoo...is a 2013 Hyundai Elantra. 148hp, 2700lbs and 6 speed manual trans. If I kill the clutch, maybe I can get it in the 8 second range. Even with torque, I think that 3 speed trans would really hold it back something ugly. Back in high school, a buddy had a '69 Firebird. Engine had been tricked out a bit, but it had that oh-so-dreadful 2 speed Powerglide trans. Just killed the low end acceleration...but the darn thing could do something like 70mph in first gear!!

No haze. I was a Sheriff's Explorer in those days, a boy scouts in more ways than one.

Don't badmouth the Powerglide, to this day it is a very popular transmission in dragsters. http://www.autonews.com/article/201...968/dragsters-still-prefer-ancient-powerglide

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Are you sure that's not just 1970's haze induced memories? I'm kidding, I'm kidding....



The torque would help for sure, but I'd bet it took that 3 speed several seconds to shift from first to second. My current beater...which I'm getting rid of this week...woohoo...is a 2013 Hyundai Elantra. 148hp, 2700lbs and 6 speed manual trans. If I kill the clutch, maybe I can get it in the 8 second range. Even with torque, I think that 3 speed trans would really hold it back something ugly. Back in high school, a buddy had a '69 Firebird. Engine had been tricked out a bit, but it had that oh-so-dreadful 2 speed Powerglide trans. Just killed the low end acceleration...but the darn thing could do something like 70mph in first gear!!

My dual clutch Focus is mid-low 7’s (depending on which article you read), 160HP, ~3,000 lbs. AMC used TH400’s and Chrysler 727 autos, both of which shift pretty well and have pretty much ideal gear spacing.

Powerglide is a great trans, but combining a (presumably) stock converter with an aftermarket cam and a 1.76 first gear probably made your pal’s car accelerate slower than a stock engine, at least off the line.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Perhaps time fades memories... if you think the Pacer was fast, I'd hate to take you for a ride in a modern Toyota Corolla. You'd pass out. Oh, and if you'd pay $200k for an Edsel, I'll happily go get one and sell it to you for that amount...

It has to be the correct model and year and in really good condition and with original or at least period parts to sell for that. But there are some not so popular cars are now highly collectable because so few were made. But even a Pacer in Good condition can fetch about 8 grand. It originally sold for 3300. Though not nearly enough to consider it a prized collectible, it is becoming a bit sought after.

 

[Klayfish]

My dual clutch Focus is mid-low 7’s (depending on which article you read), 160HP, ~3,000 lbs. AMC used TH400’s and Chrysler 727 autos, both of which shift pretty well and have pretty much ideal gear spacing.

Powerglide is a great trans, but combining a (presumably) stock converter with an aftermarket cam and a 1.76 first gear probably made your pal’s car accelerate slower than a stock engine, at least off the line.

Have you had any shuddering issues from a stop with the Focus? I know that was a big complaint in the Focus. I had a rental one time that did it. Didn't bother me much, but I did notice it. The Powerglide is very stout, so I understand why people like it. I just prefer a more modern trans that can do more with less...i.e. if you've got 6, 7, 8, 9 gears you can really have your first few gears give you good acceleration even with modest hp. I have always sworn by manual transmissions, I enjoy using the clutch, shifting, etc... But I can't deny how incredible modern autos are. They can rifle through the gears faster and smoother than even the best 3 pedal drivers. It's amazing.

It has to be the correct model and year and in really good condition and with original or at least period parts to sell for that. But there are some not so popular cars are now highly collectable because so few were made. But even a Pacer in Good condition can fetch about 8 grand. It originally sold for 3300. Though not nearly enough to consider it a prized collectible, it is becoming a bit sought after.

Sure, but factor in inflation. What is $3000 spent in 1974 equivalent to today? But you're right, the Pacer and Gremlin have some loyal fans...lots of "oddball" cars do... As time passes, those who were young at the time look back with nostalgia at them, and also have the disposable income to buy them. I actually enjoy seeing those cars go to auction more than I do watching the endless parade of 1960's muscle cars that clog up classic car auction floors these days. I can't wait for most of the later 70's and 80's cars to take over. Those were the ones I dreamed of as a kid.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Have you had any shuddering issues from a stop with the Focus? I know that was a big complaint in the Focus. I had a rental one time that did it. Didn't bother me much, but I did notice it. The Powerglide is very stout, so I understand why people like it. I just prefer a more modern trans that can do more with less...i.e. if you've got 6, 7, 8, 9 gears you can really have your first few gears give you good acceleration even with modest hp. I have always sworn by manual transmissions, I enjoy using the clutch, shifting, etc... But I can't deny how incredible modern autos are. They can rifle through the gears faster and smoother than even the best 3 pedal drivers. It's amazing.



Sure, but factor in inflation. What is $3000 spent in 1974 equivalent to today? But you're right, the Pacer and Gremlin have some loyal fans...lots of "oddball" cars do... As time passes, those who were young at the time look back with nostalgia at them, and also have the disposable income to buy them. I actually enjoy seeing those cars go to auction more than I do watching the endless parade of 1960's muscle cars that clog up classic car auction floors these days. I can't wait for most of the later 70's and 80's cars to take over. Those were the ones I dreamed of as a kid.

Yes, we had our clutches replaced under warranty. Have about 30,000 since replacement & the issue is beginning to come back.

Honestly not a fan of the 6-10 speed autos in most cars, mainly due to the programming. The 4L80E in my pickup always manages to be in the “correct” gear while I cannot say the same for the 6-speed auto in our Acadia.

 

[tvguy]

Yes, we had our clutches replaced under warranty. Have about 30,000 since replacement & the issue is beginning to come back.

Honestly not a fan of the 6-10 speed autos in most cars, mainly due to the programming. The 4L80E in my pickup always manages to be in the “correct” gear while I cannot say the same for the 6-speed auto in our Acadia.

The transmission shop I use says every gear you add to an automatic transmission increases the risk of failure.

 

[Forevermarypoppins]

The Pacer, and I bought a used one at the time

They were made in my hometown Kenosha, WI at the now long gone AMC plant. We would drive by the parking lot of finished cars to go to my grandma's house and my little sister always said" PACER CITY".

Truly Hideous.

 

[Klayfish]

Yes, we had our clutches replaced under warranty. Have about 30,000 since replacement & the issue is beginning to come back.

Honestly not a fan of the 6-10 speed autos in most cars, mainly due to the programming. The 4L80E in my pickup always manages to be in the “correct” gear while I cannot say the same for the 6-speed auto in our Acadia.

Ugh...sorry to hear that. Is it still under warranty? It's a shame too, the Focus is otherwise a solid car overall.

You've got it dead on, it's all about the programming. I haven't driven it, but I've heard the 9 speed ZF programming isn't great. But when they get the programming right, it's pretty incredible. A few years ago I had the opportunity to go to the BMW plant in SC, and got to do the driving experience. Among other cars, they let us put the spurs to a 2016 BMW M5 on their short road course. Holy moly, it was insane and the transmission was like an extension of my foot...plus it ripped off shifts with amazing speed.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Ugh...sorry to hear that. Is it still under warranty? It's a shame too, the Focus is otherwise a solid car overall.

You've got it dead on, it's all about the programming. I haven't driven it, but I've heard the 9 speed ZF programming isn't great. But when they get the programming right, it's pretty incredible. A few years ago I had the opportunity to go to the BMW plant in SC, and got to do the driving experience. Among other cars, they let us put the spurs to a 2016 BMW M5 on their short road course. Holy moly, it was insane and the transmission was like an extension of my foot...plus it ripped off shifts with amazing speed.

Out of original warranty, but the warranty on the clutches reset when repaired. Yes, solid car otherwise. I knew about the issues with the '12 & '13's, but was under the impression the '14's were sorted out. Did have my worries, but I couldn't get a comparable Corolla or Cruze for less than $18,500 whereas I got this one for $15,000 and it drives better than the others. We've gotten as much as 42 MPG (hand calculated).

 

[FINFAN]

This

Hey Gumbo~

HAPPY 4X4 DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!