What do YOU think a liberal is?

[Charade]

His second sentence, and only because it includes the words "I think."

The rest of it is drivel.

I believe "I think" is a given to preceed the susbsequent points.

So none of the rest is true?

(and "he" is a she)

 

[MrsKreamer]

My husband is a liberal, so I can only say what I know he believes.

He thinks that there should be universal health care and that taxes should pay for it. When I point out other government run things, like the DMV, who how well the government runs them, he just says it won't happen to healthcare or just points out that people need healthcare...

He used to be 100% pro-choice, but now that we have children, and he heard a heartbeat at 6 weeks gestation, he is slowly turning pro-life.

He believes in the welfare system. I think it need stricter time limitations, and more insentives to better yourself. Free daycare/foodstamps only if you take a class(ie:computer skills, money management, GED or associates degree) as for paying for college there are endless scholarships, grants, and loan programs for minorities. Oh and you should also need to be revaluated every 3 months to make sure you still qualify

He thinks there should be caps on companies' revenue. Are you kidding me?

He agrees with the redistribution of wealth.

He thinks the min wage should be a living wage. I think min wage jobs were never meant to support famies on, people should strive to get better jobs to support their needs.

There are a few other things, I just cannot think of them at the moment.

 

[RNMOM]

I just want to say I am in line with Massjester's thinking. You have said all lot of things and all very eloquently.

Personally, I think there is liberalism and conservatism in all of us.

As far as liberals not wanting to protect our country and just want to be liked by other countries... I truely don't understand how anyone can even think that is true. Yes, we all want to be looked upon as leaders who do the right things, lead the way, etc. I feel America has been that for a long time but our time has come to move over a bit and share the lead with several other countries who frankly are doing a better job of it lately. I have no doubt there are many liberals serving in our military. I know several of them myself.

Please, please don't believe all you hear on the TV, radio, church, print or computers. All of us need to be open minded and listen to one another. We are being fed a continual menu of mistrust and hate. Most importantly we are Americans and as such we owe it to one another to open our minds and hearts. Listen to your neighbor. Don't judge them. Live your life being true to yourself and allow others to do so as well.

 

[BuckNaked]

None of that is true?

The "I think" should have been included in all that followed...sorry for the misunderstanding.

But what did I say that was untrue?

Do liberals not believe in equal outcomes regardless of effort?

Do liberals not believe in income redistribution?

Do liberals not worry about what other countries might think of us when weighing national defense decisions?

Do liberals not worry more about groups of people by race or ethnicity more than they do about the individuals within those groups?

Do liberals not want more and more welfare programs that will trap more and more people in poverty, rather than encouraging people to get out of poverty?

You may not like my opinions, however if you don't want to hear answers you don't like, then don't ask the question.

***ETA: I thought MassJester was the OP, sorry - disregard the last sentence.

 

[BuckNaked]

As far as liberals not wanting to protect our country and just want to be liked by other countries... I truely don't understand how anyone can even think that is true.

Go spend a few minutes on some of the liberal blogs or websites and you'll quickly see why someone would believe that.

I have no doubt there are many liberals serving in our military. I know several of them myself.

I'm sure there are, though I met very, very few in the 20 years I was in.

 

[DISUNC]

The use to be!!!!!

 

[RNMOM]

Originally Posted by Charade
None of that is true?


The "I think" should have been included in all that followed...sorry for the misunderstanding.

But what did I say that was untrue?

Do liberals not believe in equal outcomes regardless of effort?

Do liberals not believe in income redistribution?

Do liberals not worry about what other countries might think of us when weighing national defense decisions?

Do liberals not worry more about groups of people by race or ethnicity more than they do about the individuals within those groups?

Do liberals not want more and more welfare programs that will trap more and more people in poverty, rather than encouraging people to get out of poverty?

No liberals do not believe in equal outcomes regardless of effort. I think that policy, in schools in particular, is the stupidest policy to come down the pike. That began back in the 80's, I know as my boys began school in the late 80's. Nope, you should be rewarded for the effort you put in. If you reward everyone equally, where is the incentive to achieve?

No, liberals don't believe in income distribution. How about paying a fair wage for all work. The problem with minimum wage is that many employers strive to keep as many employees at that level as possible for as long as possible. I don't have an answer but it is not possible to raise a healty family on minimum wage. If you have the fortitude to work hard and accumulate wealth, good for you. Know what I think would be fair? A flat tax rate without deductions. Everyone pays the same amount regardless of wealth, family size, etc. I also believe tax abatements are evil. It lets large companies avoid paying taxes to schools that need that revenue. I don't get that policy.

And no, I don't agree with your other assumptions.

BuckNaked, I avoid reading liberal or conservative blogs. I try to get facts and make up my own mind. I don't like having others tell me how to think or feel or not. It is darn nearly impossible to find sources of news that is not tainted one way or the other. Why is that? The media should be in the business of providing facts and let each of us come to our own conclusions. Yes, I have been known to watch Bill O'Reilly and Keith Olberman on occassion. I live with a very political son who wants to get me informed. I still make up my own mind or finds some further info.

Come one folks. Use your grey matter. Think for yourselves and live accordingly.

 

[Planogirl]

Please, please don't believe all you hear on the TV, radio, church, print or computers. All of us need to be open minded and listen to one another. We are being fed a continual menu of mistrust and hate. Most importantly we are Americans and as such we owe it to one another to open our minds and hearts. Listen to your neighbor. Don't judge them. Live your life being true to yourself and allow others to do so as well.

I liked your whole post but this part particularly appeals to me. It's pointless to keep the hatred and distrust going when we should all be trying to find common ground.

 

[DISUNC]

This is my own personal Fav!

Come one folks. Use your grey matter. Think for yourselves and live accordingly.

 

[BuckNaked]

If you reward everyone equally, where is the incentive to achieve?

I agree, there isn't any.

No, liberals don't believe in income distribution.

Then how do you explain refundable tax credits? Billions spent on failed welfare programs? Progressive taxation?

How about paying a fair wage for all work.

Labor is a commodity, and as such workers will be paid what their labor is worth in an open market. "Fair" should have nothing to do with it.

The problem with minimum wage is that many employers strive to keep as many employees at that level as possible for as long as possible.

There's a reason for that - the labor isn't worth more than the minimum wage to the employer, so why should they pay more?

I don't have an answer but it is not possible to raise a healty family on minimum wage.

A very small percentage of people in this country are trying to raise families on minimum wage.

Know what I think would be fair? A flat tax rate without deductions. Everyone pays the same amount regardless of wealth, family size, etc.

I agree, but you won't find any liberals that believe that - it would end the current income redistribution system.

I also believe tax abatements are evil. It lets large companies avoid paying taxes to schools that need that revenue. I don't get that policy.

In most cases, it's because the losses in property tax revenue are made up in other ways due to the increased economic activity associated with the business.

Come one folks. Use your grey matter. Think for yourselves and live accordingly.

That's cute - if we don't agree with you, we aren't using our grey matter or thinking for ourselves?

 

[Planogirl]

It's nice to believe in a fair market however the market isn't always fair and labor is not necessarily paid what it's worth IMO. I believe that paying illegal workers lower wages and the huge movement of jobs overseas has distorted the labor market and assuming that the market will pay fair value is way too optimistic. Historically, there have often been lower wage classes and the working poor and personally, I'd prefer to find a way not to go back to that system.

 

[RNMOM]

BuckNaked, I am a liberal and have said as much. If you and I don't agree, that is okay. I don't want to get into a pi$$ing contest, arguing give me a headache.

What I would enjoy is the opportunity to sit down over a cup of tea and hear your side, allow you to hear mine. I think we would have an interesting evening of it and probably not come away feeling any differently than we already to. I admire you ablilty to feel strongly and say as much but nothing I said was meant to be insulting. I am sorry if you feel it was.

 

[BuckNaked]

It's nice to believe in a fair market however the market isn't always fair and labor is not necessarily paid what it's worth IMO.

I didn't say a "fair market", I said an "open market". And labor is paid what it's worth to the employer, otherwise workers would leave their jobs and find employers that would pay them what their worth. It happens now - people leave jobs to go work for someone that will pay them more for the same work.

I believe that paying illegal workers lower wages and the huge movement of jobs overseas has distorted the labor market and assuming that the market will pay fair value is way too optimistic.

You keep using the word "fair", which is irrelevent in the market place. I agree that illegal labor pushes down pay rates, and I would love to see employers punished harshly for hiring them, and I would also love to see illegals deported to their own countries. As for the movement of jobs overseas, again, that's the open market.

Historically, there have often been lower wage classes and the working poor and personally, I'd prefer to find a way not to go back to that system.

Then you favor income redistribution in the form of either government handouts or by forcing employers to pay workers more than their labor is worth in the open market.

 

[BuckNaked]

BuckNaked, I am a liberal and have said as much. If you and I don't agree, that is okay. I don't want to get into a pi$$ing contest, arguing give me a headache.

What I would enjoy is the opportunity to sit down over a cup of tea and hear your side, allow you to hear mine. I think we would have an interesting evening of it and probably not come away feeling any differently than we already to. I admire you ablilty to feel strongly and say as much but nothing I said was meant to be insulting. I am sorry if you feel it was.

No worries, I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it. I just don't like being told that if only I understood, I'd be a liberal too. Sorry, but no. I do understand what liberals are saying, I just don't agree with them.

 

[Goofyluver]

Wow...

 

[MassJester]

I believe "I think" is a given to preceed the susbsequent points.

So none of the rest is true?

(and "he" is a she)

Nope, pure and unadultered nonsense.

 

[shortbun]

I'm a liberal and I can not be painted into a corner according to blogs and websites! I DO NOT think it's a good idea for siblings to marry but I know that they do in many countries in the world without problems. I WANT our country protected-from the extremists in the world including our current administration.I want my civil liberties protected, my constitutional rights defended and I believe they have been trampled for political gain by the current administration. I am not an alarmist and I feel most who consider themselves 'conservatives' are, hence the easy duping of 'Amurika'. I am 'prolife' when it comes to murder including capital punishment but I do not consider abortion the termination of a life when done prior to viability of the fetus as I do not consider a non viable fetus a life. I am for making reasonable health care available to all people in our country. I consider it a moral responsibilty to vote. I can sing the Star Spangled Banner and I protect the flag of our country although I would defend your right to burn it PRIOR to it's natural demise. I am for equal pay for equal work, equal rights and giving the man or woman who is not getting them and extra benefit to make up for it. I believe that criminals should be prosecuted but that we have too many laws and that our current laws do not protect us, nay they descriminate against a large part of our population. I think most politicians are in the job for self promotion. I supported our military actions in Afgainstan after 9/11 but the movement into Iraq was immoral, irresponsible and reprehensible. I'm with Dennis Kucinich on that one-how could ANY of those Senators and Congressmen been fooled into it? Stupid lemmings who wanted to look good when the mood of the country was to follow our bad leaders anywhere as long as we were blowing things up in the name of retaliation. I want the environment cleaned up, legislate much higher standards. I feel people should go without their gas guzzlers, turn down their thermostats, recycle, use alternative energy sources and get moving on saving the earth-WAKE UP! I wish more rich people were like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett. I am thrilled to see movie stars use their fame to call attention to world strife and horror.

 

[MassJester]

No worries, I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it. I just don't like being told that if only I understood, I'd be a liberal too. Sorry, but no. I do understand what liberals are saying, I just don't agree with them.

And the reverse is true.

You talk about a "free market" like the only thing that government does is interfere. There are two problems with that:

1) In a Republic, we are the government, and so a balance is created between what is good for business and what is good for us.

2) In return for the government's contribution (infrastructure, an ordered set of rules under which a company may be protected and do business, public services, educated labor, etc.) the company must pay it's taxes and play by the rules established.

It seems that "free marketers" tend to want all the benefits of the game without paying the tab. The tab isn't just the tax bill (although they'd like not to pay that either), the tab includes behaving in the required manner.

As for your laundry list of "liberals believe" -- it's pedantic, patronizing, and ridiculously over stated...pretty typical.

 

[MassJester]

The "I think" should have been included in all that followed...sorry for the misunderstanding.

Ok

But what did I say that was untrue?

All of it.

Do liberals not believe in equal outcomes regardless of effort?

No, that is absurd. I cannot think of any great American liberal thinker who believes anything of the sort. Pure garbage.

Do liberals not believe in income redistribution?

You mean taxes? If you mean that we believe that money should be taken from one group and given to another "just to even things out" that is also absurd.

Do liberals not worry about what other countries might think of us when weighing national defense decisions?

Nope -- we believe that there is no "national defense" without understanding that what other countries think has an impact on our safety. We believe that any other approach will get us into more trouble than it will solve us. Since events are conspiring to support this reality, those who don't believe it are getting a harsh lesson in reality right now.

Do liberals not worry more about groups of people by race or ethnicity more than they do about the individuals within those groups?

What a complete load of garbage that is. No they do not. Where does that nonsense come from?

Do liberals not want more and more welfare programs that will trap more and more people in poverty, rather than encouraging people to get out of poverty?

They do not. Are you talking about President Nixon's large liberal expansion of the welfare / entitlement system? Is he the liberal you are talking about? Where does this come from?

You may not like my opinions, however if you don't want to hear answers you don't like, then don't ask the question.

***ETA: I thought MassJester was the OP, sorry - disregard the last sentence.

Certainly prepared to do that.

 

[BuckNaked]

No, that is absurd. I cannot think of any great American liberal thinker who believes anything of the sort. Pure garbage.

Ah, the "great American liberal thinker"...how about just the garden variety liberals?

You mean taxes?

I mean the current tax sytem, yes.

If you mean that we believe that money should be taken from one group and given to another "just to even things out" that is also absurd.

But that's what the current tax system attempts to do. So how can you say it's absurd that liberals want to redistribute income?

Nope -- we believe that there is no "national defense" without understanding that what other countries think has an impact on our safety. We believe that any other approach will get us into more trouble than it will solve us. Since events are conspiring to support this reality, those who don't believe it are getting a harsh lesson in reality right now.

Got it. I'm sure you believe that, but I don't.

What a complete load of garbage that is. No they do not. Where does that nonsense come from?

Support for affirmative action.

They do not. Are you talking about President Nixon's large liberal expansion of the welfare / entitlement system? Is he the liberal you are talking about? Where does this come from?

No, I'm talking about Lyndon Johnson and his "War on Poverty", I'm talking about John Edwards and his campaign for class warfare, and other liberals that want as many people as possible dependent on the federal government.

Certainly prepared to do that.

I'm certain you're prepared to ignore anything that doesn't agree with you Robin Hood mentality on how to run the country.