What can you put into Gas to screw up an engine?

[N.Bailey]

She posted on the boards asking how to do it. There's intent right there, in writing, all over the internet.

OP - I understand where you're coming from, I really do. The kid is a little punk and granted, he deserves to be taught a lesson. No one is condoning what he did or siding with him for being a thief.

But the point is that you are not the person to teach him a lesson and the realitiy is that by doing something (tempting as it may be) you could open up a whole bunch of trouble for yourself. Is some little punk and 20.00 worth of gas really worth all the potential headache and trouble you could end up finding yourself in?

If you think they'd confiscate the OP's computer for adding water to a gas can that was on HER property, I'd have to say that you're setting yourself up for some major disappointments in life. Unless a death or major accident would result from such a thing, there will be no investigation really.

OP, if you decide to go thru with this (and you might just be enjoying the contemplation of revenge and it will go no further - understandable, LOL), use rainwater.

 

[luvsJack]

Um, no. They don't INTEND for someone to steal it. They just know the little weasel probably will, because he's a scumbag.

This is exactly what I was thinking! How would someone prove that she "intended" him to steal anything? Stuff gets in gas cans, it happens, especially water.

As for confronting him: doesn't sound like the kind of kid that this is going to work with. He would probably just get an attitude and possibly even his parents, too. Talking to the police may get them to watch him or even talk to him; they may very well already know who he is and be glad to scare him a bit.

BTW, if he will steal 5 gallons of gas from your yard while you are at home, he will probably steal just about anything when he knows no one is there.

 

[bumbershoot]

Obviously, the best idea is a motion-sensitive videocamera propped up in a window towards the area where you keep these things.

Videotaping would be fine- but how? Am I to set up a motion sensitive camera on the side of my home and video tape the neighbor's cats, the kids and what ever else may do it-

There was someone breaking into cars at my MIL's former apt complex. She had an old (we now own it) super8 film videocamera that has a motion sensitive setting.

She set it up in the window, pointed at the cars, and caught the people on tape. You can fast-forward through the cats and such, and if you see a lurking human hit Play.

That's the best idea.

I don't see how they would get into trouble....it is THEIR gas can....If they wanted to fill it up with cooking oil they could!! It is not their fault that it is being stolen and used for someones car!!

I'm gonna have to say it's OP's gascan. What they put it in it is THEIR business. Maybe they LIKE watered down gas.

Maybe they LIKE their gas with chlorine in it.

Obviously INTENT is the key issue.

Therefore, the OP must get all intents of the criminal (we had our gas tank nearly emptied at least twice, probably 3, maybe even 4 times, before my husband figured out what was happening, and it is an AWFUL thing to do to a person) putting contaminants in his tank OUT of her mind. Make your mind as clear as possible.

With this clarity of mind, think about all the hummingbirds you'd like to see. Start the process of setting up a hummingbird feeder. People usually use sugar water in those, yes? Re-purpose a container to hold sugar water that you make up before getting or setting up the feeder. Leave it in the same spot, b/c you are trying to change the place of criminal activity into a nice happy spot.




But that's a lot of work to do in making your mind clear of previous intentions.

So I'd just videotape the area.


Oh now wait...can civilians set up "sting" operations? Videotaping, but you don't want to lose money, so you set up the water-filled gas can as a prop? Or is that bit of sneakiness only for officials to do?

 

[DevilDuckie]

I'm gonna have to say it's OP's gascan. What they put it in it is THEIR business. Maybe they LIKE watered down gas.

Unfortunately, if the gas makes the engine seize, causes an accident and someone gets hurt the OP could be legally accountable. I totally understand the sentiment, but it needs to be addressed in a manner that does not have the potential to takeout innocent bystanders.

 

[Doe]

Although I think the kid is a little you know what for stealing, I think I'd just put the can in a locked garage/shed where it's out of sight. I doubt that if you put something into the gas can and it caused problems with his car that he's going to have a light bulb moment and never steal again. More likely he's going to try and get back at you.

 

[Quiksilvr]

Um, no. They don't INTEND for someone to steal it. They just know the little weasel probably will, because he's a scumbag. Sorry, he deserves to have his engine ruined for stealing. I don't care if it's worth only 10 cents. Stealing is wrong and let him learn his lesson! I am really sickened by this attitude, really. This is what's wrong with our country...prosecutors looking to punish innocent victims instead of thieves. Ridiculous. But I guess being a lawyer gives you a whole new set of morals?? It's funny because I know two lawyers personally and both of them are the "screw the kid, he shouldn't be a thief" type. So I know not all of you think this way.

Intent is a legal term that often includes knowing that something will likely happen from your actions. That would include "they just know the little weasel probably will." Intent in the Webster's Dictionary sense means can mean "state of mind" but the law recognizes that it's quite difficult to discern with evidence what a person was thinking. That is why you can often use evidence that shows they knew what would result from the action. It amazes me how many people here refuse to understand that it doesn't matter what he "deserves". The law does not permit you to take matters into your own hands and cause property damage or bodily injury. It just doesn't! Hate it if you want but that doesn't change things.

And you could prove intent a number of ways. For example, if it's sugar, and the engine trace shows "sugar in gas can" and you have a gas can that has sugar traces in it and they match the sugar to the gas can that goes a long way toward proving legal and criminal intent. If the kid was seriously injured as a result, he would admit to the theft and admit to prior thefts. He'd testify that he knew the OP knew he stole their gas on prior occasions. That all goes to show criminal intent.

I don't care about the lawyers you know. Their attitude has nothing to do with what is and isn't lawful. Just because they personally feel that the kid deserves to be messed with doesn't change the fact that the OP's method for doing so is illegal. Don't presume to know what I personally think about the thief or the OP. All I've been doing is providing my perspective on what could happen if the OP followed through with her ideas. I'm also wise enough not to encourage people to do unlawful things because they feel wronged.

 

[Quiksilvr]

Unfortunately, if the gas makes the engine seize, causes an accident and someone gets hurt the OP could be legally accountable. I totally understand the sentiment, but it needs to be addressed in a manner that does not have the potential to takeout innocent bystanders.

This is exactly what I'm being questioned for saying. A crime does not, in the eyes of the law, justify another crime. You can't lean back and say "well, it's not my fault. He stole my gas can. If he wasn't a thief none of this would have happened." Maybe that attitude makes sense in a crude world of self-help justice but it's not how our legal system is designed. Don't shoot the messenger; I'm just telling it like it is.

 

[Quiksilvr]

How is the prosecutor going to prove she intended to have the kid steal the gas. I seriously doubt that she would go to jail, too many what ifs.

I just found out sugar in the gas tank doesn't damage the car. It was on Myth Busters.

I agree with one thing that you said: it is quite unlikely that she would go to jail. She would probably end up with some sort of fine for the property damage. She'd only be at risk for jail time if someone was seriously injured. If the prosecutor could prove that she did it there would almost definitely be some legal consequence; the government doesn't want people to get the idea that it's okay to do this stuff and no one will be punished.

I've posted at length about how prosecutors prove criminal intent so I won't repeat myself.

 

[nuke]

Probably the best course of action would be for you to lock up the gas can from now on.

 

[SharpMomOfTwo]

Fill the can completely with diesel (or with watered down gasoline) and let the kid steal it again.

If it fills up at least 10% of his tank, he should be in for a fun ride and a potentially (somewhat) expensive repair bill.

And unlike sugar/water/sand in the gas tank, it's not vandalism

Sorry if this has been said already, but if you are putting sugar into your own gas container, how is it vandalism??

Another idea, why don't you just keep the tank in the garage?

 

[Tink888]

If you think they'd confiscate the OP's computer for adding water to a gas can that was on HER property, I'd have to say that you're setting yourself up for some major disappointments in life. Unless a death or major accident would result from such a thing, there will be no investigation really.

OP, if you decide to go thru with this (and you might just be enjoying the contemplation of revenge and it will go no further - understandable, LOL), use rainwater.

Thanks for the insult. The point is she posted on the net, asking how to cause damage to someone else's property. Again, I'm not defending the kid but, say for instance she did it and as *********** pointed out in an earlier post, as a result of it someone did get hurt, her act of revenge could escalate into something much bigger and yes, it would get investigated. Improbable? Sure. Impossible? No.

It's a lot of risk for 20.00 if you ask me. And I'm sure it wouldn't take the kid long to figure out what happened to the engine and not long after that to figure out how it happened. If the kid is already stealing then who's to say once he figures out who ruined his engine, he won't come back for his own revenge? Worth twenty bucks? Hardly.

 

[N.Bailey]

This is exactly what I'm being questioned for saying. A crime does not, in the eyes of the law, justify another crime. You can't lean back and say "well, it's not my fault. He stole my gas can. If he wasn't a thief none of this would have happened." Maybe that attitude makes sense in a crude world of self-help justice but it's not how our legal system is designed. Don't shoot the messenger; I'm just telling it like it is.

I think it's already been clarified that sugar will not be used. Tracing rainwater would be much more difficult and it's quite possible to get actual rainwater in a gas can that's been left out in the rain. While the boy could say that he'd stole from the OP before, that doesn't mean for a 2nd that it's proof that she KNEW it (that would be the state's burden), or that she purposely intended that he'd steal from her again, thus setting him up. While you do point out the law, IMO, you over estimate how easy it may be to actually PROVE it to 12 jurors (assuming it would ever come to that, and I don't think there is much of a chance of that happening).

They could also seize her computer, but I honestly don't think they'd believe for a minute that what she'd done was intentional, let alone set out to try and prove just that. My God, she's not even reported a burglary to the police. Who says he EVER stole from them in the past? He said/she said, who to believe? The admitted thief, or a woman who has no criminal history at all (assuming this is true)?

EDIT: That's assuming the thief doesn't read these boards. LOL

 

[N.Bailey]

Thanks for the insult.

Snip

Maybe you could point out the insult to me?

 

[JR6ooo4]

well, we have learned one thing at least...

When planning dastardly deeds, make sure no one knows!!!

Mikeeee

 

[N.Bailey]

well, we have learned one thing at least...

When planning dastardly deeds, make sure no one knows!!!

Mikeeee

 

[N.Bailey]

Thanks for the insult. The point is she posted on the net, asking how to cause damage to someone else's property. Again, I'm not defending the kid but, say for instance she did it and as *********** pointed out in an earlier post, as a result of it someone did get hurt, her act of revenge could escalate into something much bigger and yes, it would get investigated. Improbable? Sure. Impossible? No.

It's a lot of risk for 20.00 if you ask me. And I'm sure it wouldn't take the kid long to figure out what happened to the engine and not long after that to figure out how it happened. If the kid is already stealing then who's to say once he figures out who ruined his engine, he won't come back for his own revenge? Worth twenty bucks? Hardly.

To address the rest of your post, this is what I said upthread.

Having read a bit more, I would definitely NOT get involved with an individual who you feel is headed to prison. You could throw this type over the edge where he could perhaps start destroying your property, or perhaps start harming you own family. IMO, you don't want to go there.

I concur with you that I wouldn't touch this one with a 10 foot poll. I also don't believe the OP will act on her impulses. I think she's just finding an outlet of venting to deal with the situation. Perhaps she started out maybe thinking about doing something, but after all these posts, I'd imagine anyone with half a brain would go no further. Just the possibility of actually injuring anyone should be enough. I'm sure it still makes her feel good to contemplate the "deed."

All in all though, without this thread, it's my opinion that they'd ever be able to prove intent on the part of the OP and I'd imagine anyone fresh from the bar (criminal attorney) could get her off. I find that part of the discussion to be pretty enjoyable to discuss. I certainly don't advocate acting on it though.

I also wouldn't want to hurt a teenager because he made a stupid decision. Yes, I'd approach the parents so he didn't get away with it, but I wouldn't even call the police, unless the parents became belligerent. I have 2 teens and I'd want them to be held accountable, but not have their lives destroyed because of a stupid decision (and my kids have made plenty of stupid choices- as have I really).

 

[suzanna1066@comcast.]

Yes. If saying it in all caps made people take me more seriously: "YES".

It's all about what the person intended to do. She knows he has stolen gas before. Heck he'd probably even admit it to get her in trouble and testify that he knows that the OP knew he was stealing the gas. If she puts sugar in a gas can she knows has been stolen, intending for it to be stolen again, intending to cause damage to the kid's car it doesn't matter that the can was stolen. It's a completely separate issue. The kid would be prosecuted for stealing, the OP could be prosecuted under a number of statutes (depending on the state).

Not to mention leaving a written record on your intent right on this board which would be used against you. Take the high road.

 

[TomLovesBecky]

Intent is a legal term that often includes knowing that something will likely happen from your actions. That would include "they just know the little weasel probably will." Intent in the Webster's Dictionary sense means can mean "state of mind" but the law recognizes that it's quite difficult to discern with evidence what a person was thinking. That is why you can often use evidence that shows they knew what would result from the action. It amazes me how many people here refuse to understand that it doesn't matter what he "deserves". The law does not permit you to take matters into your own hands and cause property damage or bodily injury. It just doesn't! Hate it if you want but that doesn't change things.

And you could prove intent a number of ways. For example, if it's sugar, and the engine trace shows "sugar in gas can" and you have a gas can that has sugar traces in it and they match the sugar to the gas can that goes a long way toward proving legal and criminal intent. If the kid was seriously injured as a result, he would admit to the theft and admit to prior thefts. He'd testify that he knew the OP knew he stole their gas on prior occasions. That all goes to show criminal intent.

I don't care about the lawyers you know. Their attitude has nothing to do with what is and isn't lawful. Just because they personally feel that the kid deserves to be messed with doesn't change the fact that the OP's method for doing so is illegal. Don't presume to know what I personally think about the thief or the OP. All I've been doing is providing my perspective on what could happen if the OP followed through with her ideas. I'm also wise enough not to encourage people to do unlawful things because they feel wronged.

Thanks for the details, which I didn't need/ask for (but your time is so valuable, I should be grateful you took the time to talk down to me, right?). I'm so glad I didn't go into law! Totally ridiculous, all of it. Of course, it doesn't matter anyway because if this happened to us my husband would go over there and scare the living daylights out of the kid by yelling at him and threatening to call the cops OR WORSE. And he is a big guy who knows how to get his point across when he needs to. I guess he'd do 10 years in prison for threatening the kid, right? Meanwhile the thief lives it up out on the streets, committing even more crimes. What a screwed up world. And it's not a "crude world of self-justice"...it's called REALITY. Most of us still live there, thank God. I never said I thought something should be done that would hurt the kid physically. But if he gets water in his gas tank, or something else that screws it up and costs him a ton of money, I'd like to see him sue his victim and win! Good luck, pal. At least the lawyers are pulling for you!

 

[polineedyan]

They don't care that your property was stolen. All they'll see is that you put sugar in a gas can intending for a kid to steal it and put it in his car.

Now, how do you put something out 'intending for a kid to steal it?' How can you predict what someone else is going to do? You would have a very hard time proving (without this thread of course) that youre client had definitive knowledge that the kid would steal it.

Once the kid told police that he took the can, there would be an admission of guilt to theft. The sugar issue would have nothing to do with his guilt or innocence in this matter.
That would have to be a separate matter, and would probably involve civil action. There is nothing criminal about putting sugar in your own gas can. Once someone takes the can, regardless of what they use it for, its on them. The owner of the sugar can did not force or coerce the individual into using it in his own car.
What if it were filler with Maple syrup? No one told that kid to put the contents of that can into his car.
So lets say, someone goes out and buys a stun gun, because theyve been threatened. They 'just know' that the person will attack them. Now, did they buy (and potentially USE) a stun gun with INTENT?

 

[EMom]

Now, how do you put something out 'intending for a kid to steal it?' How can you predict what someone else is going to do? You would have a very hard time proving (without this thread of course) that youre client had definitive knowledge that the kid would steal it.

I agree, and I have a handy dandy law degree too. Unless the OP puts a pretty blue bow on the container with the thief's name on a big attached tag in open sight for him to see from the street, how in the world can the OP "intend" for him to steal the gas? The thief is the one with/without intent to steal, not the OP. The intent is completely on his side and within his power. A homeowner can put milk and honey or homemade wine in their gas cans if they wish. They are under no obligation to keep them under lock and key in an underground bunker, safe from roaming thieves. (I would never keep a filled gas can in a garage, as some have suggested, if it happened to be attached.)


A thief assumes the risk once he purloins whatever is in that gas can. Tough luck. Granted, sugar would be a tough sell, but water or diesel? The OP will be safe from any accusation. I can't remember if the OP said she was from LA, but I think so. If that's the case, as a neighboring Texan, I assure you that a jury would NEVER convict the OP, if by some fluke the DA managed to get an indictment. NEVER. She just might get a medal.

What is the OP's intent? I'd say to fill up a gas can with diesel or to leave the cap off carelessly and let water get in.....slacker that she is. And there is no law against that. It is impossible for the OP to intend for the teenager to steal. She cannot form that intent.

This isn't CSI. It's real life. In real life LA, there would be no charges against the OP, let alone an indictment or trial.