What About Your Lifestyle/Habits Saves You Big $$$ ?

[Judique]

Speaking of washers, my husband returned our brand new washer and looked for an traditional model spinner. He insisted they will last longer than the new models. So I’m living it up in the old school (while cleaning the lint trap often).

I purposefully went old school and bought Speed Queens after using LG and Samsung newer models. Old habits die hard. Some features were nice but longevity was not a strong suit.
As for dryers, lots of features but the technology is still pretty basic.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

I have read the articles on his site from time to time....have seen other FIRE people's sites, a couple of documentaries. With Mr. MM...it's about optimizing really....everything to pay the least for it, get the most out of it...etc. I find that it's interesting to get some ideas from the influencers in that world, but it's really not do-able for most people to drop off the grid like he did. Also, as he's likely one of the more famous FIRE people, he's also quite wealthy....he sold his website for 9 million bucks a couple of years back and they kept him around to continue to write for them, so he's making loads of money. Before he sold it I read an article that he was making 600K a year from his website alone. But...I think he seems like he really does live the spartan life for the most part. He also hasn't been to the dentist in 25 years (really), and says his medical expenses are $0, because he's healthy, eats salad...etc. Well, at 47 he might want to have a physical every now and again. I read several articles how he's simply fascinated by Teslas. He's rented them a few times and even admitted that he might actually have to break down and buy a used one. I just can't relate to a guy who is a millionaire many times over and is absolutely tortured by buying a used Tesla. Dude, just get the car.

I find his thought process interesting. Yes, he is wealthy but at one point his annual spending was something like $25k so when people talk about poverty I wonder if poor people could follow what he does and still have a decent quality of life. Of course, having a paid off home certainly helps.
I didn't realize he sold the company as I'm not a regular reader. I browse around when I feel like I'm splurging too much and need to bring myself back down to earth. I could never live that kind of spartan lifestyle; he thinks buying a dvd and a bottle of wine is expensive spending and rides his bike everywhere including grocery shopping.
That must be a real treat in CO during winter months.

I do love his Complainypants article. I admit I am full of excuses like he mentions.

 

[808blessing]

Paid off home makes all the difference. When I was a kid we would keep moving to find the cheapest rent whenever the rent went up on us. There are a lot of expenses each time you move with start up costs. I don’t know how many dependents MMM had to support but cost of living, gas, limited choices and support system def makes a difference as well. It is not just a matter of changing your budget to get ahead. There are definitely lots of factors needed to release a family from poverty with the many systemic and generation limitations.

 

[shawthorne44]

When I was a kid we would keep moving to find the cheapest rent whenever the rent went up on us. There are a lot of expenses each time you move with start up costs.

My grandparents moved often with buying and selling homes. They didn't have a plan, but they were keeping up with the Joneses. A lot of money got piddled away every move.

In the neighborhood I grew up in was a lady I admired. She didn't have a job and her DH had a manufacturing job at a level that you go to after working for 6 months. Yet, it was a very nice neighborhood. A few houses down was a high-level exec at the *same* company. The first time one of dad's coworkers came to the house they were late because they didn't think a programmer could have that nice of a house. How they got there was by never selling a house, and instead turning their previous house into a rent house and paying off the mortgages quickly.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

I purposefully went old school and bought Speed Queens after using LG and Samsung newer models. Old habits die hard. Some features were nice but longevity was not a strong suit.
As for dryers, lots of features but the technology is still pretty basic.

I love my old school Speed Queen washer and dryer. And they’re built in the USA. They weren’t cheap but they are well built. The gears are made of steel instead of the cheaper brands that use plastic. Their warranty is longer than others too.
Our set is around 8-10 years old so maybe this is no longer true but I hope not. I would positively buy another.

 

[Kestryl]

I have read the articles on his site from time to time....have seen other FIRE people's sites, a couple of documentaries. With Mr. MM...it's about optimizing really....everything to pay the least for it, get the most out of it...etc. I find that it's interesting to get some ideas from the influencers in that world, but it's really not do-able for most people to drop off the grid like he did. Also, as he's likely one of the more famous FIRE people, he's also quite wealthy....he sold his website for 9 million bucks a couple of years back and they kept him around to continue to write for them, so he's making loads of money. Before he sold it I read an article that he was making 600K a year from his website alone. But...I think he seems like he really does live the spartan life for the most part. He also hasn't been to the dentist in 25 years (really), and says his medical expenses are $0, because he's healthy, eats salad...etc. Well, at 47 he might want to have a physical every now and again. I read several articles how he's simply fascinated by Teslas. He's rented them a few times and even admitted that he might actually have to break down and buy a used one. I just can't relate to a guy who is a millionaire many times over and is absolutely tortured by buying a used Tesla. Dude, just get the car.

Whaaaaat... It looks like this guy doesn’t have health insurance according to one of his blogs from 2020. He has some subscription type thing, but it won’t cover anything big. Maybe it’s because I had melanoma in my mid-20s, with $30,000+ in medical bills over a few months that would have been impossible without insurance, not to mention on-going check-ins and more moles removed in the years that followed, but I think going without insurance would be a reckless decision.

 

[LovesTimone]

I grew up hanging clothes outside on a clothesline but the first advice to help sufferers of pollen allergies is to not hang laundry outside. Wet clothes are a huge pollen magnet. I developed allergies at around 30 so after innumerable sinus infections, I have accepted the fact that the clothes dryer is a must.
Where on earth do you hang this much clothing? Our house is very small and the laundry room is around 4' x 6', just enough space to stand in there and use the washer dryer.
To hang everything, I'd need lines going across the living room and dining room.

I have closet shelving ( white wire style) over my machine's, I have all different hangers for different clothing...Once the washer is done, as I am pulling out the clothing, I hang it on the hangers, and hang on the shelving... as well thing like my undergarments get laid on top of the dryer, or if a shirt or something needs to lay flat to dry... As things dry I just carry everything already on a hanger and hang in the closet.

We went with the white shelving, for more storage space... I have a bunch of small soft sided coolers, wine bottle cooler bags, and some other odds and ends up there... Stuff that we use, just not on a daily basis, and its easy to get to when we want it...

 

[jo-jo]

Right now a pack of size 1 Target diapers (44 count) is $4.59 (not on sale). Let's say that's 5 days of diapers -- 8 1/2 diapers per day. Newborns will use a little more, older children will use a few less.
Let's assume that's an average: If you use disposable diapers for 2.5 years, you'll spend about $850 total to diaper one child -- though in reality diapers go on sale pretty often; a person who stocks up when they're on sale could literally never pay full price for diapers. (In all fairness, I ignored tax.)
You think 8 1/2 diapers is too few per day? Okay, let's say 10 diapers/day -- that'll raise the cost to $951 -- again, that's store brand diapers, never once catching a sale.

Size one diapers are 10 cents each, but size 5 are 20 each. Also I found store diapers tend to be lacking meaning I change more often and there are more leaks, so more clothes to wash. I've used them now and again with grandkids.

Could you explain the environment concerns? Yes one used soap and water to wash diapers, but isn't that the same as every other piece of clothing that one wears. What happens to the billions of disposable diapers?

Forty years ago, we used cloth 90% of the time. For going to church, we used disposables. We still have a few of those diapers, work great for waxing the car.

 

[shawthorne44]

In contrast, if you're using the plainest of the plain cloth diapers -- the type women used generations ago -- they're $12.99 for ten at Target right now. If you want pre-folds, they're $12.99 for five. Plus plastic pants. But the people I know who use cloth diapers today are buying the fancier pants-style with snaps, etc., and those can cost $15-30 per pair. Let's say you use half of each type ... let's assume one 10-pack of plains + 10 pair of plastic pants @ $4 each + 10 fancy-type diapers for small baby, then 10 in a larger size (let's assume you get the cheaper style or buy them used and pay only $15) ... you'd end up spending just under $355 to set yourself up for cloth diapering the first child.
Regardless of what type you're buying, you have to wash them. That's probably an extra two loads per week (hot water and soap), so maybe $1 per extra load. If we estimate the same 2.5 years (130 weeks) of diapering, that's an extra 260 loads -- or $260 in washing costs. And your time /effort. So $355 for diapers + $260 for washing ... you'd spend $615 to diaper the first child. You'd save $235 on the first child's diapering.

Of course, the second child would cost less because you'd already have the initial investment done. You'd save $590 over the course of 2.5 years on the second child -- if you bought no new diapers at all. And still, your time /effort.

You way overestimate the cost of cloth diapers. The cloth diaper store near me had a package for $200 that was everything you needed to diaper a child. That included the all-in-ones that had the snaps to make them change size, special soap and potty trainers. You can pay more for diapers. I did, for example, I bought some all-in-ones in a minkie fabric that said "I love you" for $5. It is like clothing, you buy more than you need because baby stuff is so darn cute.

You'd also assumed buying disposables on sale, but didn't assume the same for cloth. My aunt sent me 100 prefolds that she bought for $10 at a Gerber outlet. She used them as Christmas Gift padding for the email. I loved those things. That is what DD wore at home. In her entire life I only had to use butt paste once and that was after diarrhea. Since the sweat/moisture wasn't trapped against her skin, her skin stayed nice and clear.

You also didn't include the cost of disposing the disposables. Those things are toxic waste. I don't mean in the will-never-decompose manner. I mean in the I-didn't-know-anything-not-dead-could-smell-that-bad manner. Everyone I knew that used disposables had an expensive contraption to stick the diapers into, and it also used special plastic bags. You probably think that smell is from the baby and would be the same for cloth. Noooooo. That is the stuff what happens when the stuff they put in the diaper to soak up liquid gets wet. For diapers we used the bucket method. It was pee, we'd spray with some ammonia remover from a fish store. If it was poop, the poop would be dropped in the toilet and we'd spray the diaper with an enzyme pre-treatment. For baby playdates, I took disposables straight to outside trash.

There was another non-monetary benefit to cloth diapers. Well, two because I think most kids in cloth will potty-train earlier since they can feel the wetness. You know how sometimes babies cry because they are crying? You've taken care of whatever it is, but they are so busy crying they don't notice. When that happened I would change her diaper even though it was bone dry. It was enough action to get her to notice, and she'd stop and do a check "Am I happy now? Has Mommy taken care of it?" And she decide that I had and smile. If they were disposables, there is no way I'd have thought of that.

 

[pigletto]

Whaaaaat... It looks like this guy doesn’t have health insurance according to one of his blogs from 2020. He has some subscription type thing, but it won’t cover anything big. Maybe it’s because I had melanoma in my mid-20s, with $30,000+ in medical bills over a few months that would have been impossible without insurance, not to mention on-going check-ins and more moles removed in the years that followed, but I think going without insurance would be a reckless decision.

He’s a multi millionaire. He’s self insured .

 

[dvcgirl67]

I find his thought process interesting. Yes, he is wealthy but at one point his annual spending was something like $25k so when people talk about poverty I wonder if poor people could follow what he does and still have a decent quality of life. Of course, having a paid off home certainly helps.
I didn't realize he sold the company as I'm not a regular reader. I browse around when I feel like I'm splurging too much and need to bring myself back down to earth. I could never live that kind of spartan lifestyle; he thinks buying a dvd and a bottle of wine is expensive spending and rides his bike everywhere including grocery shopping.
That must be a real treat in CO during winter months.

I do love his Complainypants article. I admit I am full of excuses like he mentions.

He's an interesting guy for sure. I'm not a regular reader either, but I see his blogs posted elsewhere every now and again. He does put his budget out there and I believe he really does live like that. But, his job now *is* to live like that. I'm not saying he's a fraud or anything, because he clearly worries about that as he talks about it when people accuse him of being that. I'm just saying that if I was in his shoes, I'd buy a Tesla. I'm not in his league with respect to net worth, and I have a new one in my driveway right now. And it's as awesome as he says it is .

I actually think the overall message of the FI movement is great. And DH and I are big savers....we save 35% of our gross income (45% of net), and so we do understand the difference between needs and wants. But we're definitely not in the "save up 500K as fast as we can, quit and live on 25K a year" camp. We would have retired a long, long time ago if that was the case. If we can handle healthcare for a few years, our goal is to retire at 60...seven years from now with roughly 70% of our gross income....because we love to travel and we expect to spend more in our early years than we're spending now. Once we hit 67, provided the rules don't change, we'd have another almost 70K coming in with SS which would give us a really big cushion going into our 70s. We both like what we do and so it just seems kind of silly to walk away from our income now...in our 50s, when we're making more money than we've ever made.

 

[QueenIsabella]

Whaaaaat... It looks like this guy doesn’t have health insurance according to one of his blogs from 2020. He has some subscription type thing, but it won’t cover anything big. Maybe it’s because I had melanoma in my mid-20s, with $30,000+ in medical bills over a few months that would have been impossible without insurance, not to mention on-going check-ins and more moles removed in the years that followed, but I think going without insurance would be a reckless decision.

I hear you! Although he could probably afford to absorb the cost of your melanoma, or similar health problem, I'll bet a lot of his followers couldn't.

And going without check-ups and dental cleanings is just reckless. It was kind of funny, I happened to be talking to DD18 yesterday about saving money. She'd gotten many compliments on her graduation dress, which she got at Goodwill for $5. I pointed out that we save money on some things--not eating out, shopping at thrift stores--in order to save money for other, more important things--like her braces and her college education.

I do enjoy reading MMM--you never know when you're going to pick up a new way to be frugal. I'm not interested in dumpster diving for dinner or selling plasma to get by, but I can appreciate the people who are willing to try different approaches to get to their goal of FI.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

He’s a multi millionaire. He’s self insured .

Yes. He "retired" at 30 from his regular job, even before their first child was born. He still worked after that but doing what he enjoys. His money keeps making him more money and then the blog helped him to rake in more.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

And going without check-ups and dental cleanings is just reckless.

I agree. In fact, I actually enjoy going to the dentist and even though our dental insurance only covers 2 cleanings per year, I go 3x (every 4 months) and pay for the 3rd visit out of pocket. It's money well spent imo. My teeth need to last me all of my life. I don't want dentures when I'm old.
My brother is a good example of why check ups are so important. At one holiday dinner he told us about how normally he'd never goes to the doctor unless he was sick and he hadn't been sick in many years so with a recent cold, he went to his doctor and his blood pressure was out of control. So bad, that his dr sent him straight to the ER. He isn't overweight, plays ice hockey, runs, and has a very physically active job. Looking at him you would think he's very healthy. Meanwhile HTN runs in our family. He is the eldest and my sister and I had already been on meds for that for years by the time he told us this story. My sister was stubborn about going on meds, insisting she could lower her numbers by eating healthy, cutting out prepared/packaged foods and reducing sodium intake. I was not stubborn at all, knowing my dad's cousin died of a stroke at 44. It's not worth fooling around.
Anyway, my long-winded point is that looking healthy doesn't necessarily mean that you are.

 

[dvcgirl67]

He’s a multi millionaire. He’s self insured .

He's a multi-millionaire...so yes, he can be self-insured for some things for sure. He doesn't carry homeowners insurance. He's willing to take that risk...he lives in a pretty spartan house from what I remember. And if he didn't build it himself, I'm sure he could for less than 200K. He doesn't need to carry life insurance because of his net worth. We have a 15 year term life insurance policy ending in September and won't take out any additional term insurance. But....we all really need to carry some form of health insurance, and he doesn't carry that. A catastrophic illness could run into the many millions of dollars. He seems to have a fear of healthcare altogether....hasn't been to the dentist in 25 years and doesn't go to the doctor. At 47 years old, you can feel quite fit, eat perfectly...etc, but a simple blood test could pick up something like early kidney disease...etc, which you wouldn't know you had at all. And your teeth might "feel clean"....but you may have underlying gum disease that can lead to all kinds of more serious health issues down the road. These FI people are all about "life hacks"....and optimizing every single little detail of life to get the longest life out of it...etc. Not going for the most basic of physicals and avoiding the simple procedure of having your teeth cleaned....goes against that in my mind. And not carrying even the most basic catastrophic health insurance when you're a multi-millionaire is the equivalent of charging into battle with your troops without protecting your rear and flank positions. It's foolish.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

He's a multi-millionaire...so yes, he can be self-insured for some things for sure. He doesn't carry homeowners insurance. He's willing to take that risk...he lives in a pretty spartan house from what I remember. And if he didn't build it himself, I'm sure he could for less than 200K. He doesn't need to carry life insurance because of his net worth. We have a 15 year term life insurance policy ending in September and won't take out any additional term insurance. But....we all really need to carry some form of health insurance, and he doesn't carry that. A catastrophic illness could run into the many millions of dollars. He seems to have a fear of healthcare altogether....hasn't been to the dentist in 25 years and doesn't go to the doctor. At 47 years old, you can feel quite fit, eat perfectly...etc, but a simple blood test could pick up something like early kidney disease...etc, which you wouldn't know you had at all. And your teeth might "feel clean"....but you may have underlying gum disease that can lead to all kinds of more serious health issues down the road. These FI people are all about "life hacks"....and optimizing every single little detail of life to get the longest life out of it...etc. Not going for the most basic of physicals and avoiding the simple procedure of having your teeth cleaned....goes against that in my mind. And not carrying even the most basic catastrophic health insurance when you're a multi-millionaire is the equivalent of charging into battle with your troops without protecting your rear and flank positions. It's foolish.

Part of this is his "numbers" mentality and following the "what are the odds" vs. money spent for something. So if the odds are slim that a tree might fall on his house (which happened to us) or that it might be destroyed in a fire or tornado, odds are high that those things won't happen. Really, it's a gamble. A simple blood test could show signs of early leukemia or prostate cancer.
Life is too short to gamble it just to prove a point to the world that eating healthy and excercising will prevent disease. In 30 years, my house will have the same risk of catastrophic damage as it does today. Yet, regarding the human body, a lot changes in 30 years and it's important to catch things and treat them earlier vs. later. At some point, MMM will realize that all the exercise and healthy eating in the world won't stop you from aging and age itself puts people at higher risk for many cancers.

We see this mentality often at the breast imaging center where I work. Ladies getting additional imaging or a biopsy saying, "This is going to be negative; breast cancer doesn't run in my family. I'm an aerobics instructor and I eat healthy. These doctors are just doing this to make more money." blah, blah, blah. They are totally gobsmacked when results come back showing cancer.

 

[pigletto]

He's a multi-millionaire...so yes, he can be self-insured for some things for sure. He doesn't carry homeowners insurance. He's willing to take that risk...he lives in a pretty spartan house from what I remember. And if he didn't build it himself, I'm sure he could for less than 200K. He doesn't need to carry life insurance because of his net worth. We have a 15 year term life insurance policy ending in September and won't take out any additional term insurance. But....we all really need to carry some form of health insurance, and he doesn't carry that. A catastrophic illness could run into the many millions of dollars. He seems to have a fear of healthcare altogether....hasn't been to the dentist in 25 years and doesn't go to the doctor. At 47 years old, you can feel quite fit, eat perfectly...etc, but a simple blood test could pick up something like early kidney disease...etc, which you wouldn't know you had at all. And your teeth might "feel clean"....but you may have underlying gum disease that can lead to all kinds of more serious health issues down the road. These FI people are all about "life hacks"....and optimizing every single little detail of life to get the longest life out of it...etc. Not going for the most basic of physicals and avoiding the simple procedure of having your teeth cleaned....goes against that in my mind. And not carrying even the most basic catastrophic health insurance when you're a multi-millionaire is the equivalent of charging into battle with your troops without protecting your rear and flank positions. It's foolish.

Well I was guessing that the “subscription type thing” that the poster I was quoting covered some sort of health insurance and he was banking on covering the others himself but I really haven’t done a deep dive into him at all , mostly because I don’t care.
Otherwise I’m with you, I’ll carry what is necessary ( as a Canadian most health is covered) and I’ll be dumping life insurance once we can self insure.

 

[barkley]

In regards to entertainment options- we utilize the resources our local library provides. We have something called “museum passes” that can be checked out by patrons. These passes include passes to museums, historical places, and beaches and parks. We sign them out as often as possible, particularly during summer and save hundreds in fees. Our library also offers used books (some new releases, others older books not on the library shelves)for sale 3 for $1. I drop off books I’ve read and stock up on books, saving lots of money. My husband picks up books on CD to listen to while he he drives around during the day.

along the same lines-if you live in proximity to a college or university investigate if they offer community library memberships. the state university near us does and it provides spectacular access to a wealth of items including access to materials from OTHER university library collections across the country. our local library system has some great resources but they pale in comparison to the movies, music, books on cd and e-books the university provides access to. a local college or university can also be a resource for well priced activities for the family-our university recreation center has a pool, ice skating rink, rock climbing walls and traditional exercise equipment. all can be accessed through a reasonably priced day pass but a monthly unlimited visit family pass can be gotten for less than $100 (about the cost for 2 kids to get just a one month community pool pass here).

 

[disneydreamer1980]

We have 5 kids, so going out can get expensive. Every year we buy memberships for all the places we tend to go (aquarium, science center, zoo, trampoline place, children’s museum etc.). The memberships are typically as much as one visit plus another $40-50 or so. So we get a years worth of visits to various places for just about the cost of one visit.

 

[QueenIsabella]

We have 5 kids, so going out can get expensive. Every year we buy memberships for all the places we tend to go (aquarium, science center, zoo, trampoline place, children’s museum etc.). The memberships are typically as much as one visit plus another $40-50 or so. So we get a years worth of visits to various places for just about the cost of one visit.

My parents did this. It was the 60's, they had 4 kids by their fifth wedding anniversary, God bless them! We lived near Boston, and had family memberships to both the children's museum and the science museum there. Perhaps the New England Aquarium, as well. Which remain excellent institutions, BTW, if you find yourself in the area. Not only did we visit these places frequently, but they had private libraries where we could check out books. Having the memberships, we could just go any time, for just a couple hours, even--handy with young children.