What About Your Lifestyle/Habits Saves You Big $$$ ?

[MKCP5]

I think all of it comes down to what you place value on in life. It's not the same for one person as it is for another. Some people don't buy coffee out and rarely go out to dinner but splurge on expensive pocketbooks or designer shoes. Some people get rid of cable and don't go out for entertainment so they can take great vacations. None of it is wrong or right except whether it is wrong or right for your particular family.

We rarely eat out, we don't buy expensive clothes or accessories, virtually all home projects we complete ourselves with the help of youtube lol, we got rid of cable and keep our cars in good shape and drive them as long as physically possible. I'm sure there are other things, but that helps us to save and spend money on things we really value like travel.

 

[MrsPete]

"Those people" Where do they get a free education? K-12 yes, but in most places a high school education makes it pretty difficult to get yourself to a living wage. No one I know who lives in those circumstances gets a free college education. They may qualify for some grants, but rarely does anyone receive enough financial aid to go to school for free.
I have seen multiple references on here to things like "those people" or "I'm glad they get a handout" Can we try and remember that these are actual human beings who may struggling in ways that you cannot even imagine? Can those of us who are in better financial circumstances please remember that there but for the grace of God, you might be in their shoes before we make blanket statements about "those people?"

I had to look back to see what prompted me to write that item. Looking back, I see I was responding to someone else's comment: I was talking about the people who make min wage, live in govt housing, no phone, no internet/cable etc. beater car to get to their crappy job.

And what I answered was: Those people have it MUCH harder, but at least in America they get a free education, they can qualify for Pell grants, and they have a chance to work their way up the ladder. Not easy -- not easy by any means -- but possible.

You're bristling at the phrasing of "those people", but I stand by my comment, which is about education being the way out of poverty. Yes, it is very hard to grow up in a minimum wage household, depending on government benefits, etc. BUT at least today a kid who grows up that way gets a free education. Across history, that hasn't always been true.

Sounds like you're not very up-to-date on educational benefits these days:
- A student of average ability can opt for the Early College High School -- I think they're available everywhere now; we have three such programs in our county alone. That allows a high school student to graduate with a high school diploma AND an associate's degree in four years.
- Dual enrollment between the high school and the community college is a completely different program available to juniors and seniors; it allows students to take classes /get ahead on college courses while they're still in high school. This costs nothing.
- We offer a variety of classes in trades in high school: A student can graduate with a CNA license, a cosmetology license, or a certification that shows s/he is qualified to work in mechanics or electronics.
- Every student in our county has a Chromebook, and those who don't have reliable internet are given a "hot spot". I don't really understand "hot spots", but my students do.

Two last comments:
- A few days ago I ran in to one of my old students (a girl who was very, very poor) working in a restaurant, and she told me she's in her last semester of community college /is already accepted to university for the fall and has her finances firmly in hand. She reminded me that I'd talked her through how to complete the FAFSA, how to choose classes at community college -- she said it had made a great deal of difference in her life.
- Last thought, as for "there but for the grace of God" is ironic when directed at me -- I WAS one of "those people" growing up. My father abandoned us when I was eleven, we lived on my grandparents' farm without cost, and were dependent upon various government programs. I can tell you plenty of stories about putting cardboard into shoes, saving up for eyeglasses, sharing meds with a sibling, wearing coats indoors for lack of heat, going hungry, pretending I didn't want to attend school events ... I'll be glad to tell you about it. I got out of that situation through education, as did three of my four siblings. Pell grant, lots of work, etc. So, yes, I do believe strongly in education, and today much more is available.

 

[QueenIsabella]

I want to tag on to what Mrs. Pete says above...

First off, I don't know that everywhere has Early College HS--we didn't encounter this until we moved to North Carolina. However, the schools my kids attended in rural upstate NY and in NH both had dual enrollment as an option, and a motivated student can accomplish the same thing.

Of my 4 kids (three HS graduates), 1 took AP classes and got an Early Childhood certification, one got a CNA certification, one got an IB diploma (much college credit), and one plans to do dual enrollment (he's a rising sophomore). There ARE choices available to any motivated student!

Our local community college--affordable to all, and cost-free if you qualify for a Pell grant--offers very competitive programs, including nursing. One of DD18's classmates is in a special program where she qualifies to go directly from CC to the flagship university--3 years total (with IB credits).

You might be thinking, "Great--you know about these things because you're on top of the educational opportunities." Which is certainly true, although there was a learning curve as we moved state to state. But, our local HS also has a program for first generation college-bound kids, starting in 9th grade. It helps with language barriers, how to apply for scholarships, filing out the FAFSA, budgeting, asking for recommendations, burnishing your resume--all the things that will help the student be successful, even if their parents aren't in a position to provide guidance.

Lastly, like Mrs. Pete, I WAS that kid. At one point, I was actually in a private school (Catholic) while our family was on food stamps. I got a scholarship to take my AP exams. My first FAFSA result stated that my parents could contribute $0-250 towards my college education. I worked my butt off so I could lift myself out of poverty. It's pretty presumptuous to say that some of us our looking down at people who struggle. What we're saying is, "you're struggling now, but with hard work, you can improve your circumstances. We know because we've done it."

 

[MKCP5]

@MrsPete Yeah, we're just not going to agree on this. And despite your thought that I am "not very up to date on educational benefits these days" the opposite is actually true. I'm glad you live where there is so much opportunity for every to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and make it happen if they actually work hard. There's no doubt that in some places this is the case. But the concept of "free" isn't actually free, even if it is available. There are still so many associated costs that even those will eliminate people from going. And those programs simply are not available everywhere. I stand by my opinion that not just your statement but in multiple instances here there is an elitist view from those who are financially successful that the people who aren't just aren't trying hard enough or working smart enough. I grew up with nothing too, and through hard work and some great opportunities have carved out a much better financial picture for my family, but I am clear that not everyone gets those or has the support system or societal functioning to even know how to access those opportunities. But hey... this is a forum and everyone is given a platform for their opinion, even if we don't agree.

 

[crisi]

Getting college credits in high school is NOT universally available. My sister is running into it with my nephew right now in North Dakota - there is even a NDSU in the town where they live - he is out of Math and Science courses, and its taken a year of negotiation to get him to take university coursework - and then the school INSISTS it take a back seat to high school - so if the math course he needs conflicts in timing with the required PE credit, he has to take the high school PE credit. (My youngest had some of the high school credits such as PE waived to do dual enrollment). Moreover, if they lived out of town - its forty miles between towns out there, you'd need a car and time to do the commute. The high school isn't big enough to offer AP coursework either - they just don't have enough students to fill a class. And this is a kid who has finished Calc as a high school sophomore - this isn't the average kid, who is expected to be able to graduate just fine with their high school degree and no college credit.

I suspect this is a big problem in a lot of rural areas where the graduating class sizes are small and the community isn't close enough to even a community college to make it possible for a 16 year old to get to school.

Another issue is that a lot of schools lack counseling. We got my youngest into dual enrollment, only because we knew about it - but it was never counselled to her or to us. And it was certainly never offered to my average student son - who wouldn't have qualified in Minnesota. A lot of average kids are simply never offered it. And in Minnesota, it doesn't apply to trade classes.

 

[MKCP5]

Getting college credits in high school is NOT universally available. My sister is running into it with my nephew right now in North Dakota - there is even a NDSU in the town where they live - he is out of Math and Science courses, and its taken a year of negotiation to get him to take university coursework - and then the school INSISTS it take a back seat to high school - so if the math course he needs conflicts in timing with the required PE credit, he has to take the high school PE credit. (My youngest had some of the high school credits such as PE waived to do dual enrollment). Moreover, if they lived out of town - its forty miles between towns out there, you'd need a car and time to do the commute. The high school isn't big enough to offer AP coursework either - they just don't have enough students to fill a class. And this is a kid who has finished Calc as a high school sophomore - this isn't the average kid, who is expected to be able to graduate just fine with their high school degree and no college credit.

I suspect this is a big problem in a lot of rural areas where the graduating class sizes are small and the community isn't close enough to even a community college to make it possible for a 16 year old to get to school.

Another issue is that a lot of schools lack counseling. We got my youngest into dual enrollment, only because we knew about it - but it was never counselled to her or to us. And it was certainly never offered to my average student son - who wouldn't have qualified in Minnesota. A lot of average kids are simply never offered it. And in Minnesota, it doesn't apply to trade classes.

These are exactly my points. There is no public transportation in my town. Even if you could go to community college you have to get there. You have to buy books, You have to pay lab fees etc. Many students have no idea if this is an option. Blanket statements that everyone can do this so easily are just wrong. Our standardized testing for high school students automatically gives free tuition for any 4 year state school in the commonwealth if you score above average on at least two of the main tests. When that program was instituted parents were THRILLED. Well guess what, a year of school is roughly 29K (with dorm housing) tuition is 4K of that cost. That isn't honestly helpful to families who are already struggling financially. And before anyone wants to tell me there are scholarships and pell grants for I just want them to recognize that not everyone gets those, not everyone qualifies, not everyone even knows how to fill in the forms to apply or has the support to figure it out. My big point is that this is just not the simple thing that so many think it is. It is much more challenging that just putting some effort in.

 

[FQLover]

Dual enrollment courses are not always free. At my daughter's high school, each course cost $75.00, to be paid up front by the parent. She graduated two years ago, so this is not outdated information.

 

[Twohsieh]

This is so true! I know I've mentioned it here before, but when I started my first "real" job at 21, they explained 401ks to me, and it sounded like a scam. Nonetheless, I put a few % of my pay into one, and kept doing that. My tiny contributions have grown to almost $500,000!

My oldest is a teacher, so she has a future pension (assuming things stay on track). She also puts a small amount into a 403b (I think--457?). But, she's had a couple windfalls along the way. She got some money when her grandmother passed--I suggested she put $10k in a Roth, $5k a year, and set the rest aside. Similarly, an uncle left her ~$10k--she'll put half in the Roth, and set the other half aside for when she needs to replace her 17yo car. I figure, she won't miss these windfalls, she hadn't expected them. And if she's desperate in future years, she could (hopefully won't) take out the initial deposit. She's young, time is on her side for growth. And even these relatively small amounts could offer her a great return in 40-50 years, even if she doesn't continue to make Roth contributions.

Along the same lines, with my younger kids (24, 18, 15)--we show them statements (Grandma left them money, too--they don't have access to it). We explain that the best thing they can do with Grandma's gift is leave it alone to grow. Now, there's nothing wrong with tapping the money down the road, to buy a house or something, but I call it my "set it and forget it" strategy.

I whole heartedly agree with you about saving at an early age. We’ve taught our kids (ages 12, 13 and 15) about stocks but mainly about index funds held in a Roth IRA. They know the power of compound interest. They each put in the max allowed funds last year that they had saved throughout the years. They have committed to invest any money they earn into their Roth every year. We hope they continue to keep up with their desire to save for a brighter future.

 

[Timandalicia]

Ummmm. I hope none of you are doing all of these things and then going to Disney World. It would pretty much put you back zero after living like a monk. ‍♂

 

[QueenIsabella]

I whole heartedly agree with you about saving at an early age. We’ve taught our kids (ages 12, 13 and 15) about stocks but mainly about index funds held in a Roth IRA. They know the power of compound interest. They each put in the max allowed funds last year that they had saved throughout the years. They have committed to invest any money they earn into their Roth every year. We hope they continue to keep up with their desire to save for a brighter future.

Since that post, my middle two (DS24, DD18) have gotten jobs, at FEDEX and Starbucks, respectively. DS24 has Asperger's and a few other problems, so he's a late starter. Anyway, both jobs offer very nice 401k plans. FEDEX will match a 6% contribution with 8% of the company's money. Starbucks matches 100% of the first 5% of contributions, and DD also has access to a Roth 401k. Neither is in desperate need of the money right now, so we're helping them to at least take advantage of the company match--and decades of growth. Even a couple thousand put away now will give them a big boost down the road.

Timandalicia--you're very right about Disney vacation being expensive! Some people don't mind living like a monk, 51 weeks out of the year, to afford Disney. In our case, we have a dedicated vacation fund, separate from the regular household expenses. We do a big vacation every other year. We mostly do this due to cost, but frankly, it's difficult to get 6 people on the same page, logistically, for a big vacation.

 

[barkley]

Since that post, my middle two (DS24, DD18) have gotten jobs, at FEDEX and Starbucks, respectively. DS24 has Asperger's and a few other problems, so he's a late starter. Anyway, both jobs offer very nice 401k plans. FEDEX will match a 6% contribution with 8% of the company's money. Starbucks matches 100% of the first 5% of contributions, and DD also has access to a Roth 401k. Neither is in desperate need of the money right now, so we're helping them to at least take advantage of the company match--and decades of growth. Even a couple thousand put away now will give them a big boost down the road.

first off-congrats to the newly hired!!!!

secondly, just sharing this b/c (a) i've got a 24 year old ds on the spectrum as well, and (b) i used to work in public programs that provided services. ideally your son is in a better place than mine and can successfully be employed in whatever he desires/suits him best BUT if you have any lingering concerns that the long haul may prove to necessitate part-time or non employment then carefully consider how plans like 401k's can impact his eligibility to services. i say this in large part b/c of health insurance. we were (are) eligible to keep our son on our employer sponsored health insurance for the remainder of his life due to his asd diagnosis occurring before he hit 18 BUT the cost was insane. we looked at all options and the best coverage/attainable pricing entailed him qualifying for a government subsidy of a portion of the cost. thing is to qualify he has to keep his resources under a certain level-and retirement accounts count as resources. we had lengthy conversations with our estate planning attorney who also specializes with special needs adults. we've take specific steps to ensure that both our adult children will have retirement accounts but they are structured differently so as not to disadvantage our younger for the services he needs today and potentially in the future.

hopefully none of this applies to your situation but i just thought i would share.

 

[shawthorne44]

Timandalicia--you're very right about Disney vacation being expensive! Some people don't mind living like a monk, 51 weeks out of the year, to afford Disney. In our case, we have a dedicated vacation fund, separate from the regular household expenses. We do a big vacation every other year. We mostly do this due to cost, but frankly, it's difficult to get 6 people on the same page, logistically, for a big vacation.

For us, most of our vacations are fairly cheap. But the Disney vacation is an exception. Even then, we'll be paying less than most. Generally we go to this convention that is in a new location every year. We drive in about a week early and do the tourist-thing, then we relax at the convention. They negotiate a really good hotel rate. On vacation a couple of trips ago at Universal they commented that every vacation has been better than the last. I thought about it a bit, and then said, that the best will probably be our upcoming Disney trip.

 

[QueenIsabella]

first off-congrats to the newly hired!!!!

secondly, just sharing this b/c (a) i've got a 24 year old ds on the spectrum as well, and (b) i used to work in public programs that provided services. ideally your son is in a better place than mine and can successfully be employed in whatever he desires/suits him best BUT if you have any lingering concerns that the long haul may prove to necessitate part-time or non employment then carefully consider how plans like 401k's can impact his eligibility to services. i say this in large part b/c of health insurance. we were (are) eligible to keep our son on our employer sponsored health insurance for the remainder of his life due to his asd diagnosis occurring before he hit 18 BUT the cost was insane. we looked at all options and the best coverage/attainable pricing entailed him qualifying for a government subsidy of a portion of the cost. thing is to qualify he has to keep his resources under a certain level-and retirement accounts count as resources. we had lengthy conversations with our estate planning attorney who also specializes with special needs adults. we've take specific steps to ensure that both our adult children will have retirement accounts but they are structured differently so as not to disadvantage our younger for the services he needs today and potentially in the future.

hopefully none of this applies to your situation but i just thought i would share.

Thank you for your input! In the case of DS24, he's pretty high-functioning. This is his first "real" job, and so far, it seems to be working for him. He's several weeks in--I still have to get up with him (at 2am--yikes!), but he's willing to go in. The job suits him--in addition to the Asperger's he has anxiety, depression, a couple learning disabilities, and he's very introverted. But, loading and sorting packages he's okay with. We don't expect he'll move up to management, he'd suck at anything retail, this might be a job that he can live off of. We're hoping the pride of working will help his self-esteem.

Assets could be a problem, if he were to be unable to work. He has money from his grandmother--what he has access to is in a trust, where he and I both have to sign off for him to withdraw it. He's had some impulse-control issues in the past, so he agreed to this.

Because of his impulse-control issues, I'm currently letting him take $50 from each paycheck--half spending money, half for an X-box gift card (he actually cares much more about the gift card, but I want him to have some cash on him). In a few weeks, I'll help him set up a checking/debit account with his leftover paycheck money.

This may all fall apart when his classes start up again in the fall, but, fingers crossed.

 

[tzolkin]

Ummmm. I hope none of you are doing all of these things and then going to Disney World. It would pretty much put you back zero after living like a monk.

I think this is exactly the point for some people. Figure out ways to save in their daily lives so they can splurge once a year on a nice vacation.

 

[crisi]

I think this is exactly the point for some people. Figure out ways to save in their daily lives so they can splurge once a year on a nice vacation.

And I doubt anyone does everything in this thread all the time. If you value it, you won't give it up. A lot of people are giving up things they really don't value. I don't need to drive a nice car. I don't need new carpet or a new kitchen. Most of my clothes are from Target - and I wear them until they aren't even good for donation. I can afford those things and still take vacations, but I don't value them enough to spend money there.

 

[mich311e]

Dual enrollment courses are not always free. At my daughter's high school, each course cost $75.00, to be paid up front by the parent. She graduated two years ago, so this is not outdated information.

I agree with this. My son is going to be a senior. It' $75 a credit here, plus a registration fee. So for the fall semester last year I paid $900, and then $450 for the spring semester. (The college math course ran all year long).

It's definitely a value as far as his time goes, but there is still a significant cost.

 

[MrsPete]

@MrsPete Yeah, we're just not going to agree on this.

I think you're right.

The high school isn't big enough to offer AP coursework either - they just don't have enough students to fill a class.

This doesn't make sense to me. Since online courses became widespread -- maybe 10 years ago -- our students have had the option to take a much wider variety of online AP courses and community college classes.

I agree that too many guidance counselors don't push the options and too many students don't read the available materials to know that these are available. I find it hard to believe that NC is leading the pack in these courses.

These are exactly my points. There is no public transportation in my town. Even if you could go to community college you have to get there. You have to buy books, You have to pay lab fees etc. Many students have no idea if this is an option.

Even before Covid, our students had the option to take community college classes online. My youngest took several dual-enrollment classes during the school day; she'd go to the library or the computer lab and work on her college classes during 2nd period (or whatever). We did go (as a family) to an intro-to-CC-classes evening, but that was optional. Also, our school provides every student with a Chromebook.

Books and lab fees are no cost for students who are in the dual-enrollment program. My daughter didn't even pay for her college ID (which is good 'cause it was useless for an online student).

Again, I find it hard to believe that NC is a leader in this regard.

And I doubt anyone does everything in this thread all the time. If you value it, you won't give it up. A lot of people are giving up things they really don't value. I don't need to drive a nice car. I don't need new carpet or a new kitchen. Most of my clothes are from Target - and I wear them until they aren't even good for donation. I can afford those things and still take vacations, but I don't value them enough to spend money there.

Yes, we try to spend on things that matter to us /skip the rest. I don't care about driving a fancy car. I buy most of my clothes used, and I wear most of them until they're really worn out. These aren't sacrifices ... it's just a matter of spending consciously.

 

[Timandalicia]

I think this is exactly the point for some people. Figure out ways to save in their daily lives so they can splurge once a year on a nice vacation.

Right. My point is that it seems like in some of what is mentioned there are quite a lot of sacrifices being made for a Disney vacation. I worry about the ends justifying the means… again- in some of the mentioned situations.

 

[dpswift]

We've gotten much better with our everyday expenses. We still use paper towels for some things but have cut it down to 25% of what we used to use. I invested in some colorful, soft cloths that we use for napkins and keeping them rolled in a bowl in the kitchen has enticed people to grab one ( had less appealing napkins before!). We have cut way down on reusable plastics and now use sturdy (mostly glass) containers with covers for everything- not just for some things as we used to do. This year, grocery delivery and curbside pickup has helped to cut down impulse buys.
We are trying to simplify in general- no more buying books unless I absolutely think its a keeper forever. The library app is great. Bulk and sale buying. Just less spending.
We are needing a third car soon. Trying to decide how to best go about it. We typically buy new and keep our cars forever. For us, the peace of mind to not have to worry about potential repair costs with a new car is huge, and then we know whats been done for maintenance when they get old. We havent ever paid cash for a car, just couldn't.
Also, we dont go out to eat much, but if we do ( pre-covid) we choose lunch. We prefer to visit with friends and family at home.

So much of what you said is true for us. Using less napkins and plastic bags, library for books and I use drive up quite a bit. I would use it more but I work at the Target where I buy a lot of my stuff and I feel weird about it.

My daughter and son both needed cars. We spent months looking. We were able to find older cars in amazing shape. We must have seen hundreds over the months.

 

[dpswift]

I think all of it comes down to what you place value on in life. It's not the same for one person as it is for another. Some people don't buy coffee out and rarely go out to dinner but splurge on expensive pocketbooks or designer shoes. Some people get rid of cable and don't go out for entertainment so they can take great vacations. None of it is wrong or right except whether it is wrong or right for your particular family.

We rarely eat out, we don't buy expensive clothes or accessories, virtually all home projects we complete ourselves with the help of youtube lol, we got rid of cable and keep our cars in good shape and drive them as long as physically possible. I'm sure there are other things, but that helps us to save and spend money on things we really value like travel.

Very true. I stopped talking to co workers about Disney for a bit because of grumbling about the cost. She however owned horses a huge expensive.
When I was a young wife there was a woman who got rich by being frugal. She started a newsletter and then wrote books on being cheap. I would not spend the money for her newsletters but did read the book. One thing she said was that by being cheap you can afford what is really important to you