Westgate - Does this strike anyone else as Sexist??

[HookdonWDW]

I was looking around on E-Bay, and saw someone trying to sell timeshare presentations at Westgate Resorts. I was reading the disclaimer, and this is what it said:

Qualifications For the FREE DISNEY Ticket Tour At Westgate Vacation Villas There is no cost or obligation to purchase anything. No one is excluded from the tour Or resort ownership, however, the following requirements must be met in order to Receive your free tickets gift: 1. Married couples and single women over 30 qualify for the promotion. 2. If married, both husband and wife must attend a 90-minute sales presentation together. 3. Husband and wife must speak fluent English, Spanish, Portuguese or Arabic. 4. Couples must be between the ages of 25-60, single women must be 30 or older 5. You must have a valid driver’s license or passport for identification and a combined gross annual income of at least $40,000. 6. You must bring a major credit card as proof of your credit worthiness 7. Residents who live within a 50-mile radius of Westgate Vacation Villas in Kissimmee, Florida do not qualify for this offer. 8. Guests staying at Westgate Resorts through other promotions are not eligible for this offer.

 

[disneysteve]

I wonder why they would be open to single women but not single men. Seems odd to me. Every timeshare offer I've ever gotten was for couples only.

Steve

 

[FLeisure]

Not happy they exclude anyone living within 50 miles of Westgate !

Yes, I agree it does appear sexist !! Quite how they get away with that is a mystery !

 

[Lisa P.]

They are also able to restrict gift offers to only people from certain countries. Apparently, they make out their list of restrictions based on historical data regarding who are most likely or least likely to purchase a timeshare. Apparently, single women over 30 are a reasonably good prospect to purchase, in addition to married people, when both attend the tour. So anyone may tour, but only certain market groups are offered incentive gifts to tour.

Many timeshare resorts that we have visited do offer a seemingly secure environment. The 1BR set-up (w/sofabed in LR) can be good for singles traveling with a friend, or single parents traveling with children. It doesn't surprise me that timeshares may appeal to some singles.

During a visit to a Fairfield resort near Washington DC this year, I was offered a tour without my DH present, since he wasn't with us on that trip. This was a first for me. However, the salesperson said they are seeing many more women buying timeshare alone, with their own funds and signatures, whether they are married or single. Guess this trend hasn't caught on so far with single men.

 

[Robinrs]

The trend is similar in real estate. I have two friends who are realtors here in Georgia and both told me that 70-80% of their customers are single women! My male friend realtor concluseion for this iss that women like to nest while men like to hunt!

I'm curious, HookedonWDW, what do you consider sexist, the age indicated or the fact that they exclude single men?

Robinrs

 

[TreeOfLife]

If married, both husband and wife

So same sex couples and single fathers don't look forward to vacation deals too? What do you have to sign, the ten comamndments or a contract?
Not sexist as much as illiterate, uneducated and racist.

If the focus is a particular group of the population (as every marketing campaign focuses on), the wording is best stated as "so and so are encouraged to attend" rather than the way they wrote it.

How unpleasant and insulting..

 

[HookdonWDW]

Originally posted by Robinrs

I'm curious, HookedonWDW, what do you consider sexist, the age indicated or the fact that they exclude single men?

Robinrs [/B]

The fact that it excludes single men. I also think that the entire process is discriminatory. I'm sure that they'd pull out some type of statistics proving that they are correct, and are only targeting a specific market share, but I think the whole thing stinks. Of course, that's pretty close to my opinion of Westgate in the first place...

As far as the age thing, I think that it's also ridiculous that couples can be 25, and single women must be 30. JMHO

 

[Robinrs]

I agree, it may be marketing but it's very exclusionary. I am single and I find it insulting that most of them only want couples! On Hotel Kingdom they won't even CONSIDER a single person, male or female.

 

[Beckles]

Originally posted by TreeOfLife
Not sexist as much as illiterate, uneducated and racist.

How do you figure a gender and age requirement is racist?

 

[TreeOfLife]

How do you figure a gender and age requirement is racist?

Perhaps I should have used bigotry and intolerance instead.

Any program that filters out people so bluntly is one not to be trusted or supported. In the 21st century it is a ridiculous display of innadequacy and incapability to omit same sex families from these promotions, being so specific about a married man and woman couple. And now I ask, are common law marriages invited in?

Husband and wife must speak fluent English, Spanish, Portuguese or Arabic.

Really?? And why is that? I am curious about...

single women must be 30 or older

Are we talking about a vacation site or free mammograms?

You must bring a major credit card as proof of your credit worthiness

Oh yeah? How is that so? You could have bad credit and as long as you pay your bills to a particular company you can carry their card.. How is that proof of good credit? On teh other hand, debit cards aren't considered credit cards and look identical to one. It is baffling!

Residents who live within a 50-mile radius of Westgate Vacation Villas in Kissimmee, Florida do not qualify for this offer

Oh bother.. Disney seems to think the locals deserve the best offers. For some reason, these people disagree... Or maybe because the locals are tougher to con with their offers?

Married couples and single women over 30 qualify for the promotion

And again, where are the single dads, the couples who refuse to sign a paper to be married and same sex partners who'd love to take advantage of a deal to vacation with their families?

It is absolutely repulsive.

 

[Bob NC]

Originally posted by TreeOfLife
Perhaps I should have used bigotry and intolerance instead.
Any program that filters out people so bluntly is one not to be trusted or supported. It is absolutely repulsive.

I disagree. As we see, many folks on this board take advantage of the freebies offered with these presentations with ABSOLUTELY NO intention of even considering a purchase of a timeshare. I find that a tad repulsive. These companies spend a lot of time and money analyzing just who is a good candidate for purchase of a timeshare. If I were in timeshare sales, I would want to spend my time and efforts with a class of folks who have a high percentage chance of actually purchasing. Would I be using my time wisely by scheduling 4 appointments in a day that historically shows that they have a 1% chance of closing the sale? Or, would my time be spent more wisely by meeting with folks who, (historically), show a propensity to buy?

Salespeople want to meet with people who will buy, no matter who they are. I don't give them the credit of practicing intolerance and bigotry as a hard and fast way of life as you do. I don't credit them with the fortitude to practice bigotry, because, I believe they want to sell to WHOEVER they think will buy.

 

[TreeOfLife]

If I were in timeshare sales, I would want to spend my time and efforts with a class of folks who have a high percentage chance of actually purchasing

And if you were educated and had class and skills, you'd research and develop marketing skills targeting your focus rather than publishing who can come in and wording it in such a prejudiced and bigoty way.

You see, you advertise directly among the populations you want. Companies spend billions a year researching innovative ways to acquire clients among specific groups. It is a procedure where you develop relationships of trust and rely on references afterwards. That is far more professional that placing a public ad censoring who should not come.

Right off, I perceive these people were probably lucky to finish high school and have had no formal training in marketing skills and cultural awareness. They obviously aren't very literate and I would not be surprised to hear in the future complaints about them.

I don't give them the credit of practicing intolerance and bigotry as a hard and fast way of life as you do

Quite a comment, especially from a stranger to another. Goes to show the diverse backgrounds posting on public boards...

Repulsive indeed

 

[Bob NC]

Originally posted by TreeOfLife


Right off, I perceive these people were probably lucky to finish high school and have had no formal training in marketing skills and cultural awareness. They obviously aren't very literate and I would not be surprised to hear in the future complaints about them.

WOW.....And you are honestly having problems with other peoples preconceived notions?

Originally posted by Bob NC

I don't give them the credit of practicing intolerance and bigotry as a hard and fast way of life as you do.

Originally posted by TreeOfLife

Quite a comment, especially from a stranger to another. Goes to show the diverse backgrounds posting on public boards...

Repulsive indeed

You misunderstand, or rather I lacked the skills to explain myself properly.

Some people say that Hollywood producers are prejudiced because there is a lack of minorities in major film releases. I also don't give producers the credit to be able to practice bigotry as a hard and fast way of life, rather, I think a hollywood producer, even IF a bigot, would produce pictures that will make them money no matter who is in them. If a producer IS a bigot, I would STILL 'expect' them to go against their personal bigotry in order to make money.

A timeshare salesman I would expect to make a pitch to ANYONE who has any reasonable degree of purchasing. You can't say in one breath....."Companies spend billions a year researching innovative ways to acquire clients ", and then in the next breath say..."They obviously aren't very literate and I would not be surprised to hear in the future complaints about them".

Timeshare is a big business. They have done their research. You must also understand that they work in generalities. In general, 21 year old single women will not buy timeshares.

If I were a start up Mom & Pop timeshare company, sure, I'd give freebies and a presentation to anyone who could crawl in the door. However, If I were trying to sell timeshares in Orlando and knew full well that the bulk of my time was being taken up by people ONLY there for the free attraction tickets and cheap rates I'm giving out, (With ABSOLUTELY NO intention of buying), then yes, I'd concentrate on the high percentage prospect.

Oh and by the way.....This:

Originally posted by TreeOfLife
Quite a comment, especially from a stranger to another. Goes to show the diverse backgrounds posting on public boards...

Repulsive indeed

Was uncalled for....I was merely pointing out that in my opinion they are not practicing bigotry as, (in your opinion), you think they are. While my comment was directed at an opinion, yours was directed at me personally.

 

[FLeisure]

Wonder how the Fair Housing Amendments Act of 1988 relates to timeshare ?

This is the law that makes it illegal to discriminate against any person because of race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status or national origin.

Have a feeling that timeshare is excluded from this but it'll be interesting to do some research

 

[SimonV]

Folks, I think this thread has gone far enough, and is now descending into pure debate (and a little bit of personal stuff which I'd rather not see). Let's keep 'on topic' as far as this Forum goes please.

Simon

 

[Bob NC]

Originally posted by FLeisure
Wonder how the Fair Housing Amendments Act of 1988 relates to timeshare ?

This is the law that makes it illegal to discriminate against any person because of race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status or national origin.

Have a feeling that timeshare is excluded from this but it'll be interesting to do some research

Well, my guess on this one would be that if the timeshare were having an "open house", or something of that nature then they would have to accomodate "all-comers". But since they are giving away monetary rewards, (In the form of tickets to attractions or reduced rates for a stay), to have folks look at their wares, they are free to require minumum credit worthiness or meeting of certain guidelines that they have determined to make them a "viable" consumer in their eyes. I really have no idea, but, (operating under the above metnioned conditions), I would guess that the timeshare business is probably not covered under any fair housing rules.

 

[TreeOfLife]

Folks, I think this thread has gone far enough, and is now descending into pure debate (and a little bit of personal stuff which I'd rather not see). Let's keep 'on topic' as far as this Forum goes please.

Thanks, Simon.
Keep the bickering on the debate board as far as I am concerned...

Backing into the topic, I don't believe it is covered by any fair housing rules because it is a private business. But what is obvious to me is that a bunch of drop outs with maybe a three week training are trying to make a buck.

Done in a tasteful way, with diplomacy and targeting the populations they're interested in is the only way to bring those groups in. Like I said before, it is far more professional than stating who can and can't come in. This ad is an obvious display of inexperience, lack of skills and ignorance.

 

[Lisa P.]

...Fair Housing Amendments Act of 1988...
If this timeshare were restricting who may visit, tour, vacation, buy, own or rent there, it would certainly be violating law. But they don't restrict any of that. They are restricting who may be offered gifts as an incentive to tour.

...being so specific about a married man and woman couple.
If a couple is legally married, especially if they live in a state with community property laws, asking for both parties to be present may reduce the rate of recision requests (cancelled sales contracts) later, as well as messy subsequent legal challenges regarding who is liable for expenses and debts from a dissolving marriage.

I really doubt that this issue has anything to do with opinions about morality issues or tolerance. I suspect it has everything to do with straight economics - the dollars involved in marketing and selling their product. This is an industry with sales in the multi-billions each year. Their research is extensive. See http://www.arda.org

...must speak fluent English, Spanish, Portuguese or Arabic.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really?? And why is that?
Maybe those are the languages of their sales personnel and written materials? Just a guess.

Residents who live within a 50-mile radius of Westgate Vacation Villas in Kissimmee, Florida do not qualify for this offer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...maybe because the locals are tougher to con with their offers?
Or perhaps the locals are highly unlikely to buy a vacation property so close to home, when they could drive there in under an hour. Perhaps the locals are likely to visit regularly with the only intention of picking up "free" park admission passes. Again, they're not prohibited from visiting or touring or buying. They are ineligible to be given gifts as an incentive to tour.

...where are the single dads, the couples who refuse to sign a paper to be married and same sex partners who'd love to take advantage of a deal to vacation with their families?
I would doubt that these companies' statistics would reflect whether unmarried (in a legal sense) individuals are lifelong singles, divorced, widowed, with or without a current partner of either gender. I doubt that they care. But apparently, statistically, legally unmarried men who tour would very seldom purchase, regardless of who accompanies them on the tour (no one, a friend or a partner). And legally unmarried women are reasonably good prospects to buy if they are over age 30, for whatever reasons.

...you advertise directly among the populations you want.
Just another guess here but... it's probably not the company that did this advertising on Ebay. The way timeshares work, they generally hire an outside company to solicit prospective buyers. These marketing firms pay their staff on commission - a fee paid for each "qualified" person who shows up for the tour. If the individual staff person wants to post an ad on Ebay, they may. This may yield more prospects for them. They are given guidelines from the timeshare company as to what "qualifies" a prospect ahead of time. It seems that this individual went ahead and posted these guidelines on Ebay.

This obviously touches a nerve for many. I don't work in the timeshare industry. I don't care for Westgate as a timeshare company. I just have a tiny bit of info on how it works. And I sincerely believe that this is not a personal thing, it's a money and marketing thing. The wisdom of handling it the way that they do is suspect. But it is as it is. HTH.

 

[Robinrs]

This obviously touches a nerve for many. I don't work in the timeshare industry. I don't care for Westgate as a timeshare company. I just have a tiny bit of info on how it works. And I sincerely believe that this is not a personal thing, it's a money and marketing thing. The wisdom of handling it the way that they do is suspect. But it is as it is. HTH.

EXCELLENT post, Lisa P, our resident Timeshare Expert!

I've worked in advertising and marketing for 22 years. The demographics that they use to make sure the right ears are hearing the right thing could be considered biased but it's just about the money. We own 7 radio stations. We have a rock station that advertises nudy bars and beer. We also have a easy listening station that advertises cars and grocery stores. It doesn't mean the 25 and younger males that the rock station attracts don't buy cars and groceries, but they WILL buy beer and go to nudy bar. The 25-54 yo women on the easy listening station statistically make the decisions on the food that is eaten and the cars that are bought in a household.

Millions of dollars go into these studies so the advertiser can have more bang for their buck.

My conclusion on how ethical it is to take these tours when you have NO intention of buying reminds me of the statement one of my best sales executives had on a coffee cup: "SELLING is after the first NO." I know many people who change their minds after the tour has been taken. This is the purpose of the salesman, to make you see how this makes sense for you.

My opinion of the people who take them without the intention to buy is the same as the people who offer the incentive in the first place. If you're offering it, there must be an INCREDIBLE profit margin in there. The idea that people can make THOUSANDS of dollars off of an condo that is sold by the week astounds me. On a moral standpoint, BOTH have a questionable ideal. But sincerely, morality has no bearing in the marketing field, believe me, when the mighty dollar is their ONLY idol.