Well, knock me over with a feather....

[Viking]

You crack me up. Immigration wasn't actually "illegal" during the days of the Mayflower, but that isn't what I find so funny. It's your pretending that German's are so much more open-minded and accepting of immigrants and immigration. My husband just returned from Berlin, where the German citizens are having problems with immigrants from Soviet blok countries and Turkey, especially the gypsies. Right? When Germany opens their borders and uses their tax money to support all the poor from Lithuania, Serbia, Muldova, etc. who wish to live in Germany and work for wages that will undermine the middle class of your country, then you can lecture us.

One thing DH thought was interesting, was the reporting in Germany of Cheney's inciting a new cold war. He said it was all over the news. Yet the story has been over-shadowed by the illegal immigrant story and the secret phone tapping in the U.S.

OK, so go ahead and show me the Pilgrim Fathers' Green Cards
But I guess that JOKE is wasted on you, too
Need a drawing?
BTW, even though immigration may have not been 'illegal' in the 15th/16th century it was 'unethical' according to today's standards. Slavery was also 'legal' and so WERE many other things deemed unethical today.

Back to topic:
We use a different approach over here: By extending the European Union towards the east, by investing in those countries, we try to make it attractive for the people to stay there.
Your corn farmers get subsidies for planting corn. That corn is 'dumped' at ridiculously low prices onto the Mexican market driving the local farmers out of business. So in the end it's at least partially the USA's own fault attracting all those people. Help them making their country attractive for them and they stay home.

Nevertheless we also have about 8 million foreigners in Germany alone, but at least we know how to deal with illegals. We don't let them suck our country dry by educating their kids. You come here legally or you're out very quick - PERIOD

We are accepting immigrants, but they have to be legal - 10% of all people in Germany are immigrants.
Then some additional info for you: There aren't any 'Soviet Block Countries' left - The Soviet Union ceased to exist 16 years ago. Calling people 'Gypsies' is considered as racist over here as using the 'N' word in the USA. Those people call themselves 'Sinti and Roma' and are at home in all European countries. They even have a special status here in Germany as they were victims of the Nazis.
Last but not least, the situation in Berlin is not typical for the whole of Germany:
-Berlin is very close to the Polish border and thus often the first station for immigrants (legal and illegal) coming from the East
-Berlin is Germany's largest city with a population of more than 3 million and so many problems are multiplied (NYC for example is also NOT typical for the rest of the USA)
-Berlin is the only German city that was divided, and it is located in the heart of former East Germany, which still is struggling to cope with the results of 40 years of communism. This i.e. resulted in an unemployment rate of about 17% average in the former East German states. Unemployed people usually are less tolerant when it comes to accepting foreigners - especially when those foreigners find jobs they didn't get.

 

[Viking]

One thing DH thought was interesting, was the reporting in Germany of Cheney's inciting a new cold war. He said it was all over the news. Yet the story has been over-shadowed by the illegal immigrant story and the secret phone tapping in the U.S.

The reason for that may be that we don't take Cheney very seriously over here - at least as long as he doesn't invite us for a bird hunt

 

[TCPluto]

Quit listening to the nut jobs on the radio and use your own mind.

Why do you make this ill conceived conclusion?

Why does anyone with an opposing opinion automatically have to be characterized as not thinking for themselves?

Could it be that they simply have a different opinion than you? I think so...

 

[TCPluto]

You crack me up. ....but that isn't what I find so funny.

It's your pretending that German's are so much more open-minded and accepting of immigrants and immigration.

Very good point. I was sensing the holier than thou attitude as well. Glad I'm not alone.

 

[TCPluto]

So in the end it's at least partially the USA's own fault attracting all those people. Help them making their country attractive for them and they stay home.

Nevertheless we also have about 8 million foreigners in Germany alone, but at least we know how to deal with illegals.

It's entirely our own fault. By having a country that is so desireable to work, grow, and live in. I think we all understand that part.

Oh my, your country is so superior in all things.... We are so sorry for not recognizing that. Maybe when you're country leads the free world, you can tell us exactly what needs to be done.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I don't hate President Bush. I find him self-centered, misguided, and inexpert.

BTW, you can stop grasping as straws in response to my messages. If you don't have anything to say in defense of the President's actions, then you can say nothing at all. None of us would hold that against you.

I try to argue only with those who do not suffer from "I hate everything Bush does and says" syndrome.

 

[wvrevy]

Yeah, Pluto...I got the reference. Here, can you get this one:

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Wait...let me guess...if it's not in the bible or one of Rush or Hannity's "books", you've never read it, right?

 

[wvrevy]

I try to argue only with those who do not suffer from "I hate everything Bush does and says" syndrome.

Must not find yourself arguing much these days, eh Joe?

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Must not find yourself arguing much these days, eh Joe?

You entered right on cue.

 

[TCPluto]

Yeah, Pluto...I got the reference.

Nah, I don't think you did...

 

[bicker]

Annnnnnd that's the end of the thread. Seeyas!

 

[Chattyaholic]

No: How dare that specific person, doing that specific, selfish act, interrupt.

What I find really interesting in this thread is this: I've been here seven years, and NOT as a lurker. If you've been here any amount of time, you know that I don't normally put television over governance. Over and over again in this thread I've made the point that my objection was this person, this time, this instance, this act. I can only assume that people who continue to ignore the distinction must have no real defense for this President's action.

So, it would have been all right, in your opinion, if a democratic president that you liked and voted for interrupted your television shows but since it was a president you don't like then it was wrong?

 

[charlie,nj]

(from the LA Tmes..interesting..)

Those Are Dollars, Not Pesos -- Keep Them Here
By Hilda Marella Delgado

Hilda Marella Delgado is communications director of the Los Angeles County Federation of Labor.

May 1, 2005

Mexican immigrants should keep some of the money they send back to Mexico and spend it here, where they and their families live.

Electronically transferred remittances to Mexico last year amounted to $10 billion, according to the Bank of Mexico, but most estimates put the figure far higher. According to the bank's reports, the remittances exceeded foreign investment and tourist revenues, and equaled four-fifths of the value of the country's oil exports.

President Vicente Fox has said the remittances enabled Mexico's municipal, state and federal governments to fund 1,435 public works projects in 300 cities and towns last year. The money paved dirt roads, installed street and traffic lights, bought computers for schools, rebuilt churches and laid sewer and water lines in rural towns in Zacatecas, Michoacan, Guadalajara and Oaxaca.

Much of the money is raised by about 500 Mexican federations, or mutual aid societies, in the U.S. Their members include legal residents and U.S. citizens. Many have worked their way up the economic ladder and now own businesses. They raise funds to send to their hometowns in Mexico as a hobby. The great majority of the members know they will never return to live in Mexico. They have lived in the United States for 10, 15, 20 years and have kids who do not speak Spanish.

But think what their remittances to Mexico would finance here: the operating budget of the Los Angeles Unified School District, the budget of the city of Los Angeles twice over, after-school programs, senior living programs and training programs to help recent Mexican immigrants get on their feet. The money could economically revitalize the communities where they live.

I'm not suggesting that no money be sent to families in Mexico. That would be heartless and selfish. But home is also Pacoima, Highland Park, Pico-Union, La Puente, Pomona, Chino and East Los Angeles.

The leaders of the Mexican federations can no longer ignore this issue. Their agenda should not just be cultural but include social, economic and political goals in the U.S. Thousands of Mexican immigrants who live an underground existence could benefit at work and home if remittance money stayed here.

A lot of doors could be opened with $10 billion.

.

 

[charlie,nj]

(from www.cnn.com)

Mexico, other nations condemn U.S. fence

Friday, May 19, 2006; Posted: 8:00 a.m. EDT (12:00 GMT)

MEXICO CITY, Mexico (AP) -- Mexico and four Central American nations condemned the U.S plan to build hundreds of miles of triple-layered fencing on its southern border, saying it would not stop illegal immigration.

In a joint news conference in Mexico City late Thursday, the foreign ministers of Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Mexico said that building barriers was not the way to solve problems between neighboring nations.
"The position of Mexico and the other countries is that walls will not make a difference in terms of the solution to the migration problem," said Mexican Foreign Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez.

On Wednesday, the U.S. Senate approved a proposal to build 370 miles of triple-layer fencing along parts of the 2,000-mile border separating the U.S. and Mexico. The Senate also agreed to give many illegal immigrants a shot at U.S. citizenship.

Guatemalan Foreign Minister Jorge Briz said a major immigration overhaul in the United States was the only way to stop the wave of people heading northward.

"All of us are looking for a comprehensive migratory regulation so that millions of Latin Americans can continue working in and supporting the United States economy," Briz said.

Earlier Thursday, Mexico's Foreign Relations Department sent a note to the U.S. State Department outlining the nation's concerns about the proposed barrier.

Honduran Foreign Minister Milton Jimenez said he expected several South American and Caribbean countries to join Mexico and the Central Americans in issuing a joint declaration on the matter soon.

In December, the U.S. House of Representatives approved a bill to build a fence about twice as long as the one approved by the Senate. The House plan sparked a wave of criticism from Latin American leaders, with Mexican President Vicente Fox comparing such a barrier to the Berlin Wall.
Fox reiterated his criticisms on Thursday.

"Building walls, constructing barriers on the border does not offer an efficient solution in a relationship of friends, neighbors and partners," Fox said in the border city of Tijuana.

"We will go on defending the rights of our countrymen without rest or respite. With passion we will demand the full respect of their human rights."
On the border with Arizona, bedraggled migrants who had been turned back by the border patrol said that more fences would not keep them from crossing but only make smugglers charge more money for the trip.

"I had to leave my three children, walk for three days in the desert, and now I'm here with more debts than ever," said Edith Martinez, a 40-year-old from Oaxaca who walked back over the border bridge to the Mexican town of Nogales. "Now I have to work in the United States to pay my debts from the trip."

.

 

[momof2inPA]

BTW, even though immigration may have not been 'illegal' in the 15th/16th century it was 'unethical' according to today's standards. Slavery was also 'legal' and so WERE many other things deemed unethical today.

Back to topic:
We use a different approach over here: By extending the European Union towards the east, by investing in those countries, we try to make it attractive for the people to stay there.
..

1. The way Indians were treated was no worse than the German atrocities of WWII, but at least ours were several hundred years ago. I don't think that you, Viking, are any more responsible for those atrocities than I am for the treatment of the indians.

2. According to the following linked article, Germany has limited immigration to limit access of foreign workers to the German labor market. Germany also seeks to strictly limit access to their labor market by other EU workers, and has made an agreement for Poland to strengthen their borders with poor nations to limit illegal immigration. Foreigners born in Germany must have a parent who has been a German citizen for at least 8 years to claim German citizenship. It sounds like your laws are similar to what U.S. citizens would like to see here.

http://www.migrationinformation.org/Profiles/display.cfm?id=235