Weeding out the bad seeds

[okeydokey]

Your child, your rules. Obviously the other family doesn't respect your rules and openly goes against them with your son so it should be no surprise tot hem when you decline all further invitations to their house. A simple, sorry we can't make it should suffice.

 

[zoemurr]

I would not want my kids to go over there either. My DD is 10 and going to middle school next year, and I'm trying so very hard to give her more freedom.

Anyway, I just read the book "Free Range Kids" and suggest that you do too. It's written by the woman who let her 9 year old ride the subway a few years back. She explains how crime is actually down from the 70's when we were allowed to roam the neighborhood, but kids today aren't allowed out of our sight 'cause of all the media we're exposed to. Did you know your kid is more likely to be killed in the house in a fire, or in a car you are driving, than they are outside unsupervised and abducted by a stranger? That was quite an eye opener for me.

But, like I said.. I wouldn't have been happy in your situation either, but I often think it's sad we are such an over protective generation.

 

[Scurvy]

OP, the parents of your child's friend smoke around the children, allow their child and any children in their care to wander the neighborhood unattended, and let 7 year olds watch The Grudge 2. Of course you aren't overprotective! My son would never be going to a house like that again. Throw in the behavior with the cat and that kid would never darken my door again.

As for whether your rules for your son are unreasonable - I don't think so. But frankly even if they were it shouldn't matter. If the mother understood your rules and agreed to enforce them then that's what she should have done even if she didn't like them. If she didn't intend to enforce them she should have told you that so you could decide whether to send your son over there or not.

And they have a trampoline? That really scares me. So do they at least supervise the kids on it? I'm guessing no - which is very dangerous. Frankly that family sounds like a disaster waiting to happen and I think your son would be well rid of them if he didn't socialize with the boy again.

And your 7 yo can't open the gate and go to the front yard if he wanted to?

And what if he is at at a friends house, if they don't have a fence is he not allowed to play in the yard unless the parent watches him?

I understand your concerns, but strangers can open fences.

That's why they make locks. I had the same rule when my son was little, and the only ways to get into our backyard were through the house or over the fence unless you had a key. It would have been very difficult for someone to climb the fence and then try to carry my son over it while fighting off our dog and I would have heard the commotion.

 

[KAMKIM]

I know the statistics and I know it doesn't happen often but when I think of the parents that allowed their 7 or 8 year old daughters walk to their friends houses unattended only to never see them again it reminds me why I am the way I am...(and I would bet those parents would give anything to go back in time..)

To the OP dont apologize to anyone on this board for the type of mother you are....if more were like you the world would be safer for our kids in my opinion.

My kids are 8 and 5, they are not allowed outside by themselves, ever. I dont think its that big of a deal to grab a book and sit outside while your kids play.

 

[surfgirl]

Why wouldn't kids go outside with a fence?! Is a swingset, trampoline, pool, etc, in the backyard, not fun enough? .

I would be more concerned about these things... statistically, they are more likely to suffer a severe injury from either of these things than get kidnapped or abducted. My dd had a broken arm last year and when we were done, I told the ortho dr. that as nice as he was, I hoped I would never see him again. He laughed and told me to buy a trampoline ... they keep him in business.

My concerns would be:
1) smoking in the house
2) watching of inappropriate movies
3) cat incident.

If I received notices every other week that people were trying to pull kids into cars, there is no way I would continue to live in that neighborhood and attend that school. (btw, every school has strict standards who can come into schools and pick kids up - custody disputes are a big reason for that). But I'm not making you follow MY rules... that is why there are different standards of parenting.

I wouldn't confront this woman or make trouble. Just be vague. In fact, practice what you are going to say. "oh, sorry, can't make it." "We're having more playdates at home instead of going to other friend's houses now." "How about here ?" Just be short and sweet. Your children will be together for many grades... don't cause problems, just make it a non-issue.

 

[crisi]

I see three things:

1) You have every right to control who your kid plays with at seven and who he doesn't. You can just say "no - his family doesn't share our values and we think he is a bad influence" and leave it at that. It is best if you realize this early that every year your ability to control this will be less and less - its almost absolute at two (particularly for a stay at home mom) and pretty much non-existant on their eighteenth birthday. So while you have a lot of control at seven to "just say no" you also want to make sure you are giving your kids good guidance to make decisions when they can and will choose their own friends and activities.

2) The more limits you place on your kids, the fewer things they will "get to" do. This is fine, but you can't expect other kids to stay behind fences if they want to go to the park. There is a young boy in our neighborhood who is very lonely since the other kids his age are allowed to go up to the park without adult supervision (they are nine and ten) and he is not. I believe you have every right to set the rules, but I think you want to look at all the consequences of the rules - the chance of abduction is relatively small. The chance of being an outcast by middle school because of restrictive rules is probably higher - and is damaging to a kid's psyche. My son and I had this interaction earlier this Spring:

"Mom, Ben and I are going up to the park!"
"OK, be home by five."
(He leaves, enters the house two minutes later)
"Mom, can you go to the park with us?"
"No, I'm busy."
"Oh, Andy can't go to the park unless there is an adult."
"Well, I'm not Andy's babysitter. You guys get to decide whether you want to play with Andy in his yard, or go to the park."
"OK, we are going to the park."

Andy is a nice kid, but his attractions are not such that the boys will give up the playground equipment up at the park or riding their bikes through the neighborhood. And so Andy has spent most of his summer playing pretty much alone in his own yard because the other boys have much greater boundries. Andy's Mom is willing to make that trade - and I'm not judging it, just mentioning that there are consequences.

3) While it wouldn't be my priority, some people feel that letting a kid like this into their lives and modeling good behavior for them (playdates at your house), is providing the other kid with something really valuable. I'm not a fan of a good deed at the expense of my kids, but I respect people who do make that choice.

 

[DVC Sadie]

Great post Crisi!

 

[Scurvy]

2) The more limits you place on your kids, the fewer things they will "get to" do. This is fine, but you can't expect other kids to stay behind fences if they want to go to the park. There is a young boy in our neighborhood who is very lonely since the other kids his age are allowed to go up to the park without adult supervision (they are nine and ten) and he is not. I believe you have every right to set the rules, but I think you want to look at all the consequences of the rules - the chance of abduction is relatively small. The chance of being an outcast by middle school because of restrictive rules is probably higher - and is damaging to a kid's psyche.

I think this depends a great deal on what the norm is in your area. If all the other kids roam the neighborhood and go to the park without supervision then I can see how the kid with the more strict parents might be left out of that group. On the other hand, if most parents in the neighborhood want their children supervised then it isn't going to matter that the OP also does. And of course many children are friends with people who don't live in their own neighborhood. It might not matter to child if they are left out of the neighborhood group as long as they have other friends with whom they socialize. My son doesn't roam our neighborhood with the small group of kids that is allowed to roam. He is in middle school and is far from being an outcast.

 

[crisi]

I think this depends a great deal on what the norm is in your area. If all the other kids roam the neighborhood and go to the park without supervision then I can see how the kid with the more strict parents might be left out of that group. On the other hand, if most parents in the neighborhood want their children supervised then it isn't going to matter that the OP also does. And of course many children are friends with people who don't live in their own neighborhood. It might not matter to child if they are left out of the neighborhood group as long as they have other friends with whom they socialize. My son doesn't roam our neighborhood with the small group of kids that is allowed to roam. He is in middle school and is far from being an outcast.

If that's your community norm, then your rules aren't restrictive.

 

[badblackpug]

I am in the minority here, but I don't think, as parents, we should choose our children's fiends. Over the course of you child's life they will make and lose many friends. Some you will like, some you will not, for whatever reason. I think we can allow our children's choice in friends to help teach them about choices and independence.

OP, I think limiting contact with this boy to your house under your supervision is the smartest thing to do. Also, you need to make sure that this boy follows your house rules and if he doesn't he has to go home, maybe with a period of not being allowed to come over after that. I do think you need to have a discussion with his mother. I am sure you told your son that he is no longer allowed to play at the other boy's house. It is only a matter of time before before he says to his friend "My mom says I can't play at your house." and only a matter of time before the friend repeats this to his mother. It is better that you are honest and lay the cards on the table.

I don't think we are doing our kids any favors by choosing their friends. It does not help a child learn to make good life choices by saying that certain kids can or cannot be their friends or can or cannot be in their class. We need to teach our kids to stand up and do the right thing whether it is popular with their friends or not. My oldest has a friend that I think is a "bad influence." I quote this term because it is not the other girls' fault but my own child's. My child does not have to go along with the things this other girl does, she chooses to do so. The stipulation is that she is not to be with this girl if there is no adult supervision. (and not the other girls' parents, because their lack of supervision is part of the problem) My daughter knows that if it runs into the situation where there is no adult she is to call to be picked up immediately, and that she cannot participate in any non-chaperoned activities if this girl is involved. Even if they are activities in which she can normally participate. I reiterate to my daughter that this is her fault as she makes bad choices when this other girl is around. However, this girl is welcome in our home. She has to follow our house rules, and does., even if they are not the house rules (or lack thereof) that her parents enforce. I don't do this to teach the other child a lesson, I do this to teach my child a lesson, and to help her learn to make good choices in life.

 

[MSSANDRA]

I would not cut off the friendship but I would NOT allow my child to be at the child's home.
Any child is welcome at out home as long as he follows our rules and my son wants him there. That was the rule at 7 and still is at 17.

I would choose the smoking issue and simply tell the mom you child is unable to have playdates at homes where there is smoking.End of story. Allow the friendship but maintain control over the situation.

 

[MrsSpratt]

First off, I want to thank everyone who has posted - as a future parent (I hope!) I am learning a TON from this forum.

That being said, I am already weening myself from some of MY friends who I don't think will be good influences on my future children, and cultivating friendships that will be positive influences on any little Spratts. I guess I am the ultimate in over-protective (pre)parenting!

OP: Rock on for having a very brave, honest kid. He tried to stand up to adults, he expressed his beliefs, and tried to make sure your rules were respected.

The minute there were "games with the cat?!?!?!" The "friend" is no longer allowed unsupervised. Soccer season will be a boon - try to find some Moms you like. Ten to one, you will like Their kids!

Best of luck!

Mrs. Spratt

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

That's why they make locks. I had the same rule when my son was little, and the only ways to get into our backyard were through the house or over the fence unless you had a key. It would have been very difficult for someone to climb the fence and then try to carry my son over it while fighting off our dog and I would have heard the commotion.

Wow , we definetly must not live in the same type of neighborhood, because for where I live that is way over the top.

 

[Scurvy]

Wow , we definetly must not live in the same type of neighborhood, because for where I live that is way over the top.

I don't know - my neighborhood is very safe. The only crime I've ever heard of in this neighborhood is the occasional pumpkin theft at Halloween and a couple of middle schoolers who broke a few windows with rocks one night. No break-ins or anything like that. But that doesn't mean I want anyone to be able to enter my back yard unless I want them there, so the gates stay locked unless we need them to be open. We have our dogs in the backyard for a while each day, and got the locks primarily to protect them. An added benefit was that while my son played out there I didn't have to worry about him getting out or anyone else getting in.

Everyone I've known who had a fenced backyard kept their gates locked. What's the point of having a fence if anyone can just come along and open the gate? Locking the gate doesn't seem any stranger to me than locking the front door.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

I don't know - my neighborhood is very safe. The only crime I've ever heard of in this neighborhood is the occasional pumpkin theft at Halloween and a couple of middle schoolers who broke a few windows with rocks one night. No break-ins or anything like that. But that doesn't mean I want anyone to be able to enter my back yard unless I want them there, so the gates stay locked unless we need them to be open. We have our dogs in the backyard for a while each day, and got the locks primarily to protect them. An added benefit was that while my son played out there I didn't have to worry about him getting out or anyone else getting in.

Everyone I've known who had a fenced backyard kept their gates locked. What's the point of having a fence if anyone can just come along and open the gate? Locking the gate doesn't seem any stranger to me than locking the front door.

We lock our front door at night. If my kids are out playing its open so they can run in and out to get drinks, go to the bathroom etc.

My kids are free to play in the backyard, sideyard or close neighbors yard if they're invited. They are not permitted to roam the neighborhood, And they aren't kept locked away in the backyard either. But to each their own.

 

[sk!mom]

Oh my gosh, I know he is not a baby. Please do not pick everything I say apart...

And how is my anger misplaced? I guess your fine with allowing your children to spend the night at other kids' places and give the other parents free reign? because your son knows better. So, if they offer a cigarette to your kid and he says no, he's not allowed,, you wouldn't be upset with the other parent? Because your child did the right thing? and if you told the other parent your child was not allowed to do something and they went behind your back and told him or her it was ok? I guess that's not something you'd be angry with them about? As long as your child said no? This is confusing to me...

So... Although you asked for advice in your opening post, you're going to rip into everyone who disagrees with your position?

In answer to your questions, Your anger is misplaced because you've known for quite some time that the other parents didn't share your ideas of supervision yet you continue to allow your son over there. At seven, your son is old enough to know the rules and follow them.

Ugh, Let's see, if my child refused a cigarette, yes I would be proud of them and yes, I would be angry with the adult who offered it. My child would no longer be allowed at that house. Smoking for a minor is illegal while playing at the park isn't. Surely you can see the difference.

What's confusing? If I consider the other parents to be negligent then my child is not allowed in situations where that parent is in charge. However, I understand that my child will be put in the position to make a decision to follow our rules or not...I want her to be responsible for herself. In our family, a seven year old would be expected to honor a few basic rules, things like, no R rated movies or no going to the park alone.

 

[Zeebs]

I never said I was trying to push my beliefs as a parent on them, I just pointed out issues that caused me to become uncomfortable with my child to go over there. Hence why I have decided to not allow him to go over there again. My question wasn't how to force this mother to "wade in with all the rules and regulations" I have in my life. I believe my question was how to handle the inevitable conversation with her about why I am upset with her disregarding my rules in regards to my child going to the park alone.

I don't disagree that you have cause for concern, and your rules seem pretty ok with me. I guess that if I was allowing a child to come and stay with our family and the mother came with a list of rules that are applicable in their house and that they would like our family to adhere to them I would be a bit put out.

If the shoe was on the other foot, and it was my child visiting and I knew there were things done in the house that I didn't agree with them I wouldn't allow my child to sleep over. The children can still be friends but in a more controlled manner if I was concerned. - I also agree with Badblackpug that controlling who your child is friends with will not allow them to learn, to choose wisely in the future I know other disagree and that is your right it is just my belief.

With regards to any conversation on why your child is not allowed to stay any longer at said friends house, tell the truth. You don't like the fact that they smoke then say so. You don't like the fact that your child and friend go down to the park without an adult and it isn't fair to ask the family to change what is ok in their house so in the meantime until your child is older or their situation changes they can have play dates but no sleep overs etc.


Kirsten

 

[luvsJack]

I don't know - my neighborhood is very safe. The only crime I've ever heard of in this neighborhood is the occasional pumpkin theft at Halloween and a couple of middle schoolers who broke a few windows with rocks one night. No break-ins or anything like that. But that doesn't mean I want anyone to be able to enter my back yard unless I want them there, so the gates stay locked unless we need them to be open. We have our dogs in the backyard for a while each day, and got the locks primarily to protect them. An added benefit was that while my son played out there I didn't have to worry about him getting out or anyone else getting in.

Everyone I've known who had a fenced backyard kept their gates locked. What's the point of having a fence if anyone can just come along and open the gate? Locking the gate doesn't seem any stranger to me than locking the front door.

This is completely OT, but I wanted to just give out a little warning on the bolded part. My son and his wife kept their back yard fence locked too. No children, two pit bull dogs. Then there house caught on fire. When the fire department got there, ds was trying to get his dogs out and they made him get back (the fire was getting too bad). The fire department finally did get his dogs, but for a bit there we thought it wasn't going to happen. (his were locked from the inside and the fire men had to bust the gates to get the dogs out). No one in our family locks their dogs or their kids in their back yard anymore. It was too frightening.

This may be completely impossible to happen in your yard, but I just wanted to throw out that warning for anyone who it could happen to.

 

[TinkandAriel]

man, I don't even know where the keys to our house are...lived here 10 yrs and never locked the door. I leave the keys in the ignition of my vehicle too. I am very, very blessed to live where I live.

 

[Scurvy]

This is completely OT, but I wanted to just give out a little warning on the bolded part. My son and his wife kept their back yard fence locked too. No children, two pit bull dogs. Then there house caught on fire. When the fire department got there, ds was trying to get his dogs out and they made him get back (the fire was getting too bad). The fire department finally did get his dogs, but for a bit there we thought it wasn't going to happen. (his were locked from the inside and the fire men had to bust the gates to get the dogs out). No one in our family locks their dogs or their kids in their back yard anymore. It was too frightening.

This may be completely impossible to happen in your yard, but I just wanted to throw out that warning for anyone who it could happen to.

That's horrible - I had never thought about the possibility of something like that. Thanks for the warning! Fortunately something like that would not be an issue with a yard like mine but I'll remember it if our next yard is different. I often hear people complaining that their dogs have gotten out (and often have to help catch those dogs) after neighborhood kids open someone's gate to visit their dogs and then forget to close it. With my current yard, that's more of a concern for me since I can't see the gates from the door where I let my dogs out.