Wedding photos

Hello to all! I have been absent from the photography board for some time. The little bit I've been on the boards at all has pretty much been over on the cruise board, coming up fast:cool1:

My question is two fold, regarding my new D90:cloud9: and my nephews upcoming wedding on October 10. The couple is young, and he is in the Army. They have put this wedding together quite fast, and on a tight budget. I have been nominated to take photos. Mind you, I am in NO WAY a photographer. I like to take photos. Some are great, some are not. I'm starting to feel the pressure. I know lighting in churches is usually funny at best. I have a decent understanding of composition, but can't recall it quickly and accurately enough to get great results.

My questions are 1) Suggestions for an older church with only natural light through the windows. Will be shooting in RAW, so they can be tweaked, but I'd love a good starting point.
and 2) For photos in a busy park, suggestions for settings to blur the background, and focus on the wedding party.

I appreciate all suggestions...and luck:rolleyes1
 
LOL, just saw the thread started about wedding photography and a D90, will start there. Should have searched first. Still accepting input, though!
 
First of all, remind your nephew that if you're the photographer you can't enjoy the wedding as a guest. By asking you to photograph his wedding, he's essentially uninviting you as a guest. I don't think many couples who ask a relative to be their official photographer realize that. I know you said he's on a budget, but if he can swing a professional photographer, even if it means only a few hours of coverage, he should try to go for that (at least for the ceremony and formals). They might want to reallocate money from the flowers, decorations, food for photography. Flowers die, food gets consumed quickly, and no one will remember or think about those things the next day, much less years from now, so don't spend more money than necessary on them unless you can afford it. Photographs are forever and will be cherished for generations to come, so it should be a priority. If that's out of the question, then here's my advice for you.

Make sure you have enough memory cards to last all day without deleting any of them. If you get an error on a card stop using it immediately, so you can maximize your chances of recovering the files later. Don't clear any of your memory cards until you have the images saved on at least two other drives/discs (computer's hard drive/external drive and DVD backups) and you have VERIFIED that those copies aren't corrupted. If you can, get a backup camera, lenses, and flash. Equipment goes down all the time, and as the official photographer there are NO excuses for not being able to continue shooting. I've had friends who had two professional cameras and flash units break down during a wedding; It was a good thing they had another camera body in their car or used a second shooter's camera. I can't tell you how many times I've had equipment go down on me -- lenses, flash units, camera bodies. If you can't swing for an extra DSLR, then at the very least bring along a point and shoot as a backup (last resort). Also bring extra batteries. Don't rely on RAW to save your images. RAW is wonderful, but it's not fool-proof.

Remember: THIS IS THE COUPLE'S DAY! Don't do anything that will distract attention from them and call undue attention to yourself. The most important and solemn part of the day is the ceremony, so absolutely do not under any conditions use flash in the church during the ceremony. I'll say it again DO NOT USE FLASH IN THE CHURCH DURING THE CEREMONY. It's annoying, unprofessional, and it disrupts the flow and mood of the event. Just because the couple is on a budget doesn't mean their ceremony doesn't deserve respect. Check with the priest to see what you can and can't do and where you are not allowed to be. Photographers often get kicked out of church ceremonies for being too distracting or for doing stupid stuff, like walking up by the altar to get shots. This is a wedding, for crying out loud...you wouldn't walk up on stage during a Broadway play, would you? Even when priests say that they're okay with flash, it's just not cool at all. The only time it's okay to use flash in a church is up until the bride completes her walk down the aisle. Once she reaches the altar stop using flash. You can use flash again when the official ceremony is over, they kiss, and the couple starts coming back up the aisle. (Flash is okay for outdoor ceremonies because it's only fill flash and it not really noticeable in the bright sunlight) Inside the church crank up your ISO. On your camera that may mean 1600 or 3200 (no higher than that). Get a long lens, and maybe a tripod, and take pictures from the back of the church during the ceremony. If you don't already have fast glass (max aperture of at least 2.8) rent some and open up that aperture in the dark church. Don't forget to change your settings when you leave the dark church into the bright outdoor light.

Get your formal shots done, if they want formal. It's easier to start with the largest group and work your way down to minimize moving people back and forth. This is often the most unpleasant part of the day. Work fast. Keep reminding the people who you are photographing that YOUR camera is the one they should be looking at, NOT the other 100 cameras that guests behind and all around you are using. Despite your constant reminder of this fact, expect lots of shots with people looking in other directions. This where experience helps. It's more than just taking nice pictures. It's consistently taking nice pictures in a split-second's notice, and controlling/directing masses of people without appearing to be rude. If your "keeper" rate of good photographs isn't high, then you shouldn't be photographing weddings. Don't shoot indiscriminately; anticipate and shoot at the right moment.

In your second question you mentioned a busy park. I assume that's where the reception will take place. Well, for shallow depth of field you'll want to use large apertures. Depending on distance to the subject and focal length, that could be f/4 or f/5.6 and larger (larger means the f-stop number is lower...so f/1.8 is larger than f/5.6 and would have shallower depth of field). Distance to subject also controls depth of field. Remember to focus on eyes. If the subject's eyes are in focus, it will be more acceptable if other parts are blurry. You didn't say what time of day the reception will be, but if it's in bright daylight, then a large aperture will necessitate very fast shutter speeds and low ISO. If you have mixed lighting, where subjects are in shade, the differences in light can be dramatic, and settings that work for subjects in bright light would cause drastic underexposure for a subject in shade. In fast-changing light the semi-automatic modes (aperture priority or shutter priority) can be your friend. Don't be afraid to get a creative with reception shots. While the bride is the star of the show, and you should always know where she is and what she's doing, remember to get lots of detail shots and guest expressions during the ceremony and the reception. Those shots really "tell the story" and years from now they will transport the couple back to their special day. The couple is often so busy during their wedding day that the photographer captures moments they couldn't see themselves. If you know that people the couple rarely see are present and came a great distance, make sure you get shots of them. Ditto for guests who may not be around for long (I know that sounds a little morbid, but the couple will be so grateful to have that shot of great grandma after she's gone). Don't forget to eat and stay hydrated, and wear comfortable shoes (a fresh pair of socks can feel like heaven part-way through the day). I know people who exercise regularly, yet they still feel like they were hit by a train after shooting a full wedding.

Finally, know that no matter what you tell the bride; no matter how low you try to set her expectations, saying that you're not a professional photographer, she WILL be disappointed if you don't deliver professional results. I hear it all the time when couples ask friends/relatives to shoot for them. They may not tell it to your face, because they don't want to hurt your feelings (but sometimes they do), but I hear the regrets all the time. People have even sued their free photographers because they were unsatisfied with the photography and can't re-live that moment in time. That's why pros carry indemnity insurance and always get contracts, even when they shoot for free. Weddings are draining and stressful. A high percentage of wedding photographers get burned out and stop shooting weddings. There are lots of pros who do portraiture and other types of photography who would never consider doing weddings because they're scared to death of them!

Have fun!
 

Ditto 110% GrillMouster on every single point.

Do not for a second think that you will have the opportunity to enjoy the wedding. If you do, you start missing the important stuff. I might also add... brides REALLY don't know what they want in terms of final product. Prior to the wedding, they will express to you how important 'photojournalistic' shots are to them and how they want no formals. After the fact, and they realize they don't have a picture with grandma that they are always disappointed. So make sure you know what is truly and ultimately important. All the brides who tell me that photojournalistic pics are their favorite and they ones they want, are NEVER the pictures they actually buy.

I cannot stress what GrillMouster said enough about expectations. No matter WHAT they have told you - they do have expectations that their photos will be beautiful. Don't rely on RAW alone to get you through.

Lastly, you will feel like a semi-truck hit you at the end of the day. The day after a wedding, I feel hung-over, like I had way too much to drink the night before... when all I drank was a ton of water. Feet ache, hips hurt, arms and back ache. It's incredibly stressful on your body - and I exercise everyday and walk 3+ miles everyday as well (and I'm a mother of an active 3 year old that I chase around all day).
 
As a note, I photographed my sister's wedding because I enjoy it. :) (They were not going to hire a pro like I fully recommended).

My uncle's wedding gift to me was his wedding video service (I worked with him for many years doing wedding videography). And I knew him well enough that he would enjoy the wedding as both a videographer and a guest. He would have been just looking over the shoulder of whoever we hired anyways. My wedding album even has a page of him doing what he does best (video). It was that important to me. :)
 
:thumbsup2, GrillMouster! If that doesn't scare people away from doing wedding photography, I don't know what will! :) (just kidding. I know that I'm very very scared of wedding photography now...not that I have ever been asked).

Flowers die, food gets consumed quickly, and no one will remember or think about those things the next day, much less years from now, so don't spend more money than necessary on them unless you can afford it. Photographs are forever and will be cherished for generations to come, so it should be a priority.

I think it's very ironic that couples will spend lots and lots of money on things that are enjoyed only for a few hours, but want to spend $0 for items that are to be enjoyed forever. :confused3

For the OP (shancan911), if you can't otherwise get wedding photography experience between now and the wedding, you can check out some wedding photography books at your local bookstore. You should be able to find lots of information and tips there. :)
 
...brides REALLY don't know what they want in terms of final product. Prior to the wedding, they will express to you how important 'photojournalistic' shots are to them and how they want no formals. After the fact, and they realize they don't have a picture with grandma that they are always disappointed. So make sure you know what is truly and ultimately important. All the brides who tell me that photojournalistic pics are their favorite and they ones they want, are NEVER the pictures they actually buy.

Sooooo true. Brides say all the time that they don't want posed stuff, and they want photojournalistic (PJ), but they complain later that there weren't any formal group shots with family guests, etc. And when you do take formals (because experience teaches you that they usually want them later), the formals are usually what they order for albums and prints, not all the PJ stuff, and especially not all the "table shots" of guests (some 'togs do okay selling these directly to the guest online).

A lot of new togs label themselves as PJ shooters, but in many cases that's just because they don't know how to pose people and interact with people. Real PJ done right is great, but with many newbies it's just snapshots. The same with some who say "I only shoot available light". If you read between the lines it usually means "I'm scared to death of flash and don't know how to use it." I love natural light and use it whenever I can. I'll use scrims and reflectors to work with natural light. But no light source is perfect for every circumstance. Therefore, it's my professional duty to know how to use flash when necessary. If my flash is available to me, it's available light.
 
Good afternoon all.
Let me start by saying I am in agreement with everything read here so far. With the risk of family seeing me on this board let me also continue with, I did not offer to do this. I was literally nominated. "Shannon can take pictures". I sure can. I can take lots of them, for my family. The person who told me this is the mother of the groom, and has never had a formal wedding (3 marriages). She is also my sister in law. At the time of my appointment, the wedding was just a quickie, throw together back yard concept. My skills are par with that. then the groom's stepmother got involved. And while it's still quickie, it's a lot more involved. Low end, but still traditional. I did tell SIL this weekend to keep the stepmom in check, because if she starts treating me like hired help, or ordering me to do stuff I don't know about (because I'M NOT a photographer), that the camera would be put away. Don't know if she believed me or not. If it wasn't family, no way in Haiti would I be even considering this. But I will do the best I can. And the first thing I thought of was that I'm not going to enjoy the wedding. Not much I can do about that. In my heart of hearts, I don't really even support it. They've dated on and off for 4 or 5 years, with the "on time" probably adding up to less than 2 years. And when they're together, they argue. We'll see...hopefully I'm dead wrong. As far as the professional courtesy in the church? Totally, and that it is courtesy that should be understood for even folks without cameras.

D90 kit lens. I have a tripod. May get a remote shutter release, only because I was shopping them anyway. I will not be purchasing additional equipment for this. I have a 16 gig high speed card, and a 2 gig regular. The wedding is 3:30, pictures in the park, and then reception in a hall. I am planning on getting ready pics for bride and groom, family before, ceremony, bridal party at church, fam at church, candids, receiving line if there isw one, front of church, posed and candids at park, grandpa's house with bride, party in the limo, posed and candids at reception, front of hall, cake, flowers, head table, bridal dance, garter dance. And lots more, just throwing out some things I thought of.

Thanks to anyone who has read and posted!
 
...If that doesn't scare people away from doing wedding photography, I don't know what will!...

LOL That wasn't ENTIRELY my intent! LOL (I got the part where you said "just kidding").

Really, though, I think I provided a lot of useful information for anyone thinking of photographing a wedding, regardless of whether I personally believe you should or should not be doing so. Why share that info? Because ultimately I want every bride to have a good experience and good photography. I think sharing information helps push me and the industry forward. I don't mind sharing with newbies, as long as they're honest with me, themselves, and their customers (and, yes, brides getting free coverage count as customers, too).
 
Wow, Shannon. You've got quite a situation there with the mother of the groom, the stepmother of the groom, etc.. You had me laughing with the "keep her in check" part. Well, I hope the "happy" couple have a "happy" marriage to go with their "happy" wedding (we'll see, huh?) :)

Sounds like you've got a plan. Be prepared for the plan to get changed around at the last minute, especially if this couple doesn't have photography as its priority. All it takes is for one thing (the bride, usually) to be late, and everything gets pushed back, squeezed in, or tossed out.

Good luck!
 
I also got roped into shooting a wedding with no experience at it - but I got some useful tips from pros before shooting the wedding. The two best ones were:

1) Go to the wedding rehearsal! That way you know exactly what the set up is going to be like, and you can find some good vantage points for shooting. You can also play with your camera settings to get them where you want them before the wedding.

2) The second tip was to, if possible, meet with the Bride and Groom beforehand to find out exactly what their schedule that day will be like, and to find out what kind of photos they specifically want you to take. You don't want to hear later that they wanted a specific shot with "uncle Bob" but since you had no idea you didn't take one.

My personal tip would be to wear comfortable shoes. ;)

I know it seems overwhelming, but you can actually do a good job if you look online at wedding photos to see what kind of posing the pros used and go from there.

I hope it goes well, keep us posted! :goodvibes
 
To the OP, I"m sure the couple will truly appreciate your photography!

We recently had a friend do our daughter's wedding. No, it is not the same job we would have had from a $5000/day photographer but were pleased with the results.

The wedding was planned in just one week (she married a serviceman who got 2 days of last minute leave) but even if we'd have more time, our daughter did not want us to go into debt for her wedding (she just graduated college, for which we picked up the tab and currently have two other children in college).

Having a very talented amateur help us out made the difference between having nice photos of the day or going with family point and shoots.
 
If you're shooting RAW, that 16 gigs is going to go fast and in the heat of the moment, you may not have time to stop, look and delete the non-keepers. I would buy another SDHC card just in case. Not that I'm a pro or anything...
 
What is your kit lense? (Sorry, I shoot Canon:)) I ask because usually kit lenses are in the 3.5-5.6 range and are not good in low light (such as churches). That being the case, I saw that you asked for a place to "start" for camera settings. If you really don't know where to start with the available light, put the camera in "P" mode (program... I'm guessing that is the same as Canon, that is the mode where you pick the ISO, the camera does the rest) and look at the settings the camera "chooses", and start there, resetting the aperture and shutter speed depending on the histogram.

I guess I should ask, are you planning on shooting in manual mode? If not, ignore the previous suggestions and just shoot in "P", understanding it's limitations. Good luck to you, you're in a tough position and I hope it works out for you. You're a good aunt:goodvibes!

Chris
 
Sorry, should have put that out there...18-105mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 is the kit lens. When set to RAW, the card shows 750 ish available files. I probably won't shoot in complete manual mode, P sounds like it could be a plan. I hope the rehearsal is early enough so that I'll get a better idea of the light. Nephew coming home from training tomorrow! Hopefully I'll get a chance to talk to the two of them before hand.
Thanks again everyone for the ideas!
 
First, I must say I have never shot a wedding. I own a Canon XSi. However, I got this because my daughter is in her high school choir. Many of their performances are in churches where flash isn't permitted and I have to get by with natural light.

I understand that you are shooting in less than ideal conditions, etc. I don't remember what your lenses were either. I deduce from your post that your intent to conquer the low-light is primarily shooting in raw for post-processing, is that correct?

I got some better lenses and still have difficulty in the low-light situations because I am farther in the back and my depth of focus for that aperture isn't the best. So, your most challenging part of the wedding will be the natural lighting in the church. If you are primarily using the lens you mentioned, you will be challenged.

I'd strongly suggest not only attending the rehearsal, but also attending a church service as close to the time of the wedding as you can get, if possible, so you can judge the lighting. Explain to someone in the church before hand what you are doing and see if you can take pictures after the service is over.
 
I was a wedding photographer a long time ago and I got the "oh so and so will do it", and I would say " so and so will not do it" or "after you see my prices (naturally inflated) you may want to use someone else". With that I would get the " You got to be kidding". "No I'm not"

Didn't take long to not get volunteered.

Today I move as fast as the old man character that Tim Conway portrays, so there isn't anymore danger of being asked.

If you feel uncomfortable about doing it don't be shy in declining.
 
Shannon, we just had the same scenario for our daughter's wedding in August. Her finance got one week notice from the Army for a 2 day leave.

A friend who's just starting a business with her D60 offered to help out with less than a weeks notice. She came to the rehearsal and talked to the priest about what was allowed or not (cannot be on the alter, could use flash, could shoot from up in the balcony,etc.). She had another friend with a high end camera helping so we have photos from different angles & perspective.

Between the two of them and a few other friends "best shots" thrown in, I don't see much difference between my daughter's album and my nephew's (who got married a month earlier and paid $3500 for photographer).

Good luck!
 
Remember: THIS IS THE COUPLE'S DAY! Don't do anything that will distract attention from them and call undue attention to yourself. The most important and solemn part of the day is the ceremony, so absolutely do not under any conditions use flash in the church during the ceremony. I'll say it again DO NOT USE FLASH IN THE CHURCH DURING THE CEREMONY. It's annoying, unprofessional, and it disrupts the flow and mood of the event. Just because the couple is on a budget doesn't mean their ceremony doesn't deserve respect. Check with the priest to see what you can and can't do and where you are not allowed to be. Photographers often get kicked out of church ceremonies for being too distracting or for doing stupid stuff, like walking up by the altar to get shots. This is a wedding, for crying out loud...you wouldn't walk up on stage during a Broadway play, would you? Even when priests say that they're okay with flash, it's just not cool at all. The only time it's okay to use flash in a church is up until the bride completes her walk down the aisle. Once she reaches the altar stop using flash. You can use flash again when the official ceremony is over, they kiss, and the couple starts coming back up the aisle. (Flash is okay for outdoor ceremonies because it's only fill flash and it not really noticeable in the bright sunlight) Inside the church crank up your ISO. On your camera that may mean 1600 or 3200 (no higher than that). Get a long lens, and maybe a tripod, and take pictures from the back of the church during the ceremony. If you don't already have fast glass (max aperture of at least 2.8) rent some and open up that aperture in the dark church. Don't forget to change your settings when you leave the dark church into the bright outdoor light.



Have fun!



Well, not exactly. I worked for a studio and we shot during the ceremony with flash. However there were very few shots taken. I would take a shot of the whole party at the alter from the alter (permission granted) and that special moment (look) during the ceremony, and the kiss. If it was a catholic service a shot of the bride at the virgin mary. Also try to get a shot of the bride's parents during the service. Not many shots but some. You would be surprised if you didn't take them the couple would ask where they were when they got the proofs.

If done right they don't even know you are there. I got lectured for not taking enough photo at one wedding until I showed him the rolls of film. He didn't even know I was shooting.

I don't know if this was mentioned, get all the important must shots before anyone gets drunk. Pictures of drunk bloodshot eyes subjects are not pleasing at all. Matter of fact stay away from drunken subjects period. And if you have to take a picture at their insistance fake it. Trigger the flash and walk away they will never remember. Also if you take pictures of people who don't look drunk and it is a full shot look at the picture before you put it in the proofs. Flash is powerful and some people wear thin cloths and some don't quite make it to the bathroom and there is that tell tale spot. You will never spot it in a dimly lit room.

Never, never,embarrass the client!!!

Get permission from the minister, priest and rabi for flash in the church first.
 

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