WDW Wants to develop more wetlands than planned - Orlando Sentinel Article

[DanBoris]

Long term plan for a possible 5th gate?

I think that is very likely within the 30 time horizon of this plan.

 

[7series]

This land was purchased by WDW before there was any such thing as "wetland preservation" laws, and I seriously doubt the original plans for the land included anything to do with "wetlands preservation". My opinion, which many won't agree with, is that Disney should be free to do with their land as they please. It's a bit late to start wanting them to "preserve the wetlands".

That said, Disney has done way more than most companies would have done towards wetlands preservation.

Bravo.

 

[ParrotBill]

To my mind capacity of the rides is a bigger issue. I know everyone wants the E-tickets but they tend to attract additional guests. You need to have ride capacity for those guests, either by making the E-tickets people eating machines or having B & C ticket rides that can keep people occupied.

I agree, that's what I was trying to say earlier. I think they messed this up with the MK Fantasyland expansion. Little Mermaid, Mine Train, Dumbo and Belle's Storytime all are low capacity in guests per hour! They need to imagineer some things that move people through in greater numbers.

 

[OldsDr]

In a perfect world all the rides would have the exact same capacity. If you have 5 rides that support (numbers are for illustrative purposes only) 100 riders and hour and 2 more that support 1000 everyone will pouring out of the 1000/hour and clogging up the 100/hr rides. This assumes everyone wants to ride everything, and I know theory can and probably has been manipulated as a reason to reduce capacity at some locations.

(in the perfect world it would be all 1000/hr rides not 100 that way I can get back to the hotel and swim)

 

[MOpGrad2013]

Wondering of they are thinking of a more price friendly Golden Oaks project. When I first looked at their sales page, homes were starting 1.5-2 million. Now, the beginning price is 5 million, but there are no finished home pictures..just artist renderings. Did anyone ever move in?

I admittedly won't be. But if the homes were more in line with Osceola county and Windermere pricing, it'd be a thought. I would still need to win the lottery.

Oh! Maybe they are going to add a college campus.

Agreeing it's probablh just parking structures and roadways.

 

[rteetz]

Wondering of they are thinking of a more price friendly Golden Oaks project. When I first looked at their sales page, homes were starting 1.5-2 million. Now, the beginning price is 5 million, but there are no finished home pictures..just artist renderings. Did anyone ever move in?

I admittedly won't be. But if the homes were more in line with Osceola county and Windermere pricing, it'd be a thought. I would still need to win the lottery.

Oh! Maybe they are going to add a college campus.

Agreeing it's probablh just parking structures and roadways.

Yes people have moved in and do live there. They just started selling bigger more expensive home as well.

 

[eliza61]

Maybe. But definitely hotels and more commercial uses. The article and the RCID documents talk about how many services are offered to visitors. And it says future developments will be "more dense" than before to squeeze more onto less land.

On the map I just posted, I see an expansion north side of Animal Kingdom, and a development space big enough for a 5th park on the east side of World Drive opposite where the Speedway is today.

I don't understand why. they say that the explosion of people into the parks is the reason why they are going to tiered pricing and increasing prices across the board, yet they build more hotels to cram more people into the parks?

Personally I'd be more happy if I finally saw some of the "plans" for the parks come to fruition. I keep hearing about star wars lands, I've yet to see alight saber. now rumors of e-tickets (extra charge of course) and other things. sorry I'm one of those that no longer believes any of the "rumors". I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[rteetz]

I don't understand why. they say that the explosion of people into the parks is the reason why they are going to tiered pricing and increasing prices across the board, yet they build more hotels to cram more people into the parks?

Personally I'd be more happy if I finally saw some of the "plans" for the parks come to fruition. I keep hearing about star wars lands, I've yet to see alight saber. now rumors of e-tickets (extra charge of course) and other things. sorry I'm one of those that no longer believes any of the "rumors". I'll believe it when I see it.

Disney isn't building any new hotels...?

Star Wars is confirmed was announced at D23 along with toy story for DHS.

 

[ParrotBill]

I don't understand why. they say that the explosion of people into the parks is the reason why they are going to tiered pricing and increasing prices across the board, yet they build more hotels to cram more people into the parks?

Personally I'd be more happy if I finally saw some of the "plans" for the parks come to fruition. I keep hearing about star wars lands, I've yet to see alight saber. now rumors of e-tickets (extra charge of course) and other things. sorry I'm one of those that no longer believes any of the "rumors". I'll believe it when I see it.

I think it's because growth in visitors is outpacing their investments. And, they make more money from hotels and shopping and restaurants than they do from parks - parks have high labor and maintenance costs. I agree on the park plans needing to come to fruition. Disney needs to build its expansions faster. Universal is much faster.

Disney isn't building any new hotels...?

We're speculating on what will be built given the article and the land use plans I found... which clearly suggest new hotels and hotel expansions. The RCID plans suggest that mixed commercial uses are their main targets for development. Remember this is for the next 30 years. Even the plan I found were designed through 2020 and they had a LOT more suggested development that it seems never happened or was delayed by the recession.

 

[rteetz]

We're speculating on what will be built given the article and the land use plans I found... which clearly suggest new hotels and hotel expansions. The RCID plans suggest that mixed commercial uses are their main targets for development. Remember this is for the next 30 years. Even the plan I found were designed through 2020 and they had a LOT more suggested development that it seems never happened or was delayed by the recession.

Ok I thought they were saying that Disney is currently building hotels. I can definitely see new hotels within the nest 30 years.

 

[tjkraz]

I don't understand why. they say that the explosion of people into the parks is the reason why they are going to tiered pricing and increasing prices across the board, yet they build more hotels to cram more people into the parks?

More hotels does NOT equal more park guests. Hotels are NOT a draw to Walt Disney World. Nobody says "Hey, let's go vacation at that 'Disney Elite Suites' that just opened, and maybe visit the Magic Kingdom while we're there."

The parks beget hotels. People staying in those hotels have already decided to visit Walt Disney World.

When Disney builds new hotels, it's because they believe they can attract more guests who would otherwise stay off site. Keeping people entirely within WDW property is the master plan. Every guest they can lure from an I-drive hotel to Art of Animation is a guest who is likely to spend more time at the parks, more money at Disney restaurants, Disney Springs, etc.

As for the idea of a 5th theme park, conventional wisdom says that the money would be better spent in the 4 current parks. I've said that many times myself.

But if there's any internal push for a 5th park, I'd say it's again centered on this idea of keeping people on property. Give WDW guests yet another destination to visit and they are even less likely to venture off site to Universal and elsewhere. Disney Springs will soon be a destination unto itself--to many people, it's no longer just a shopping plaza that you can sweep through in an evening. Five theme parks, two waterparks, Disney Springs and other on-site entertainment. During the traditional 7-8 day vacation, it's that much harder to visit anything off property.

Just spitballing...

 

[rteetz]

As for the idea of a 5th theme park, conventional wisdom says that the money would be better spent in the 4 current parks. I've said that many times myself.

I think everyone can agree with this but 30 years from now the 4 current parks may be ok and they can go ahead with a 5th gate. AK, and DHS are getting lots of love, MK doesn't need a whole lot right now, Epcot hopefully gets some love 5-10 years from now.

 

[middlechild]

Yet they convert hotel rooms to DVC, moving throughout the complexes and sell those off to ownership shares. Must be the cash flow from dues equates to better profits than rack rate. I wonder if those future hotels are actually further DVC properties?

 

[Eoghann]

Yet they convert hotel rooms to DVC, moving throughout the complexes and sell those off to ownership shares. Must be the cash flow from dues equates to better profits than rack rate. I wonder if those future hotels are actually further DVC properties?

I don't know if it's better profits, but it is more reliable. You basically know every quarter what you're going to get in revenue from DVC dues, whereas hotel rooms are a bit more random.

Consistent predictable income is a big thing for a publicly traded company that needs to hit its quarterly targets.

 

[tjkraz]

Yet they convert hotel rooms to DVC, moving throughout the complexes and sell those off to ownership shares. Must be the cash flow from dues equates to better profits than rack rate. I wonder if those future hotels are actually further DVC properties?

Just because they're converting Deluxe rooms to DVC doesn't mean there isn't demand in other segments. By all accounts, the suites at Art of Animation have been very well received by guests.

 

[rteetz]

Just because they're converting Deluxe rooms to DVC doesn't mean there isn't demand in other segments. By all accounts, the suites at Art of Animation have been very well received by guests.

And let the rumors start flying but a permit was just filed for a model room at the Pop. Could be just a model for a refurb or a rumor is that they could convert rooms to suites instead.

 

[101disneyfan]

And let the rumors start flying but a permit was just filed for a model room at the Pop. Could be just a model for a refurb or a rumor is that they could convert rooms to suites instead.

Does that coincide with the "Pop Century becomes Art of Animation Part II" rumor from a few years ago?

 

[Planogirl]

Wow. I'm picturing wall to wall people in the parks with the only way to ride anything requiring a reservation system. I'm also seeing many more resorts such as Art of Animation while more of the deluxe resorts convert to private ownership.

We must be weird because the heavy crowds help drive us offsite to at least tour other attractions even when we stay onsite. Until they gate WDW and don't let anyone out, I don't see that changing.

And Disney Springs is still an outdoor mall. A VERY nice outdoor mall but that's what it is and I am looking forward to seeing it when it's done.

 

[Eoghann]

Wow. I'm picturing wall to wall people in the parks with the only way to ride anything requiring a reservation system. I'm also seeing many more resorts such as Art of Animation while more of the deluxe resorts convert to private ownership.

We must be weird because the heavy crowds help drive us offsite to at least tour other attractions even when we stay onsite. Until they gate WDW and don't let anyone out, I don't see that changing.

We have generally scheduled our visits specifically to avoid the heavy crowds. So far successfully but it seems that will just get more and more difficult. I don't do lines over 30 minutes regardless of the ride so if that was to become the new normal we'd just go elsewhere.

And Disney Springs is still an outdoor mall. A VERY expensive outdoor mall but that's what it is and I am looking forward to seeing it when it's done.

Fixed that for you.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Long term plan for a possible 5th gate?

I think a fifth gate is a fantasy...

Not because they couldn't eventually fill it...because they lack the will to spend for it.

Gates require massive amounts of infrastructure before they are even close to going vertical...then a locked in guarantee of longterm labor and support costs that escalate over time.

They are also longterm financed debt...which Disney now has big time in two spots that aren't the slam dunks Orlando is: Paris and the overpopulated toxic dump known as mainland China.

Just don't see it.

Back to the pricing...we all seem to agree that their recent policies is to create almost a new "Disney class" of wage earners that are insulated and will always have a discretional cash...

To take the "50 mil" attendance and get it to 75+ to justify another gate you have to have a legion of "middle income" patrons. That is the foundation of Disney parks.

That pool is not going to be replaced...they are positioning the consumer to be forced to one of the poles:

The very wealthy who frankly have little use for Disney's "not quite excellent service"...and the lower tier that will never be able to beg, borrow, or steal enough cash to get there.

The "victory of capitalism"