WDW to prevent AP holders from visiting parks many mornings

[whiteness]

My apologies.

I think we can all agree that new and exciting attractions are a good thing, and long lines are to be expected at them. I think where perhaps we have a divergence of opinion is that these new E-Ticket spectacular additions shouldn't come at the expense of other attractions or activities that provide options for people to remain engaged and busy. Was there really a need to kill off the Great Movie Ride in order to build MMRR? Why can't we have both?

They have lots of room to expand. Look at those massive surface parking lots...

Disneyland was a masterfully efficient use of space and they still maintained a distinct sense of place in every land. There's still so much more they could do with what they have here in Orlando.

 

[Madame]

Disney should've given GMR an extensive refurb and put Runaway Railway where the Star Wars Launch Bay is (maybe remove Little Mermaid or the Disney Junior show if more space is needed). Every time I go to HS when the park is packed, the Animation Courtyard looks like a ghost town.

RIP the animation class!! I had forgotten

 

[lowlight]

If you look at the "things to do" section on the main website, and click on VIP tours, you'll see that more than half are listed as "temporarily unavailable"- and that's after they straight up deleted a bunch of them from that page.

It could be as simple as some bean counter did a calculation and realized the cheaper tours were cannibalizing the expensive tours because of the overlap in customers between the two, and more profit could be made by just offering one. We are both making a lot of assumptions, the only people that know the answer are the ones who did it and all we’ve heard from them is they want the higher end spendy customers.

 

[whiteness]

It could be as simple as some bean counter did a calculation and realized the cheaper tours were cannibalizing the expensive tours because of the overlap in customers between the two, and more profit could be made by just offering one. We are both making a lot of assumptions, the only people that know the answer are the ones who did it and all we’ve heard from them is they want the higher end spendy customers.

That's a good point. There has been a trend towards bifurcation in wealth and spending. Maybe Disney is starting to focus more on deep pocketed guests that want an up market experience. It kind of feels that way.

 

[Jonfw2]

It could be as simple as some bean counter did a calculation and realized the cheaper tours were cannibalizing the expensive tours because of the overlap in customers between the two, and more profit could be made by just offering one. We are both making a lot of assumptions, the only people that know the answer are the ones who did it and all we’ve heard from them is they want the higher end spendy customers.

My travel agent has told me multiple times since Covid that its 100% staffing related.

Also, the price points are so different between the private and group VIPs that I really think you’re talking about two different levels of appeal.

 

[whiteness]

My travel agent has told me multiple times since Covid that its 100% staffing related.

Also, the price points are so different between the private and group VIPs that I really think you’re talking about two different levels of appeal.

Is your travel agent a Disney Cast Member? Even Cast Members don't always have full information behind management decisions.

 

[Jonfw2]

Is your travel agent a Disney Cast Member? Even Cast Members don't always have full information behind management decisions.

She's an "insider".

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Does anybody happen to remember what the original topic of the thread was?

 

[RoseGold]

I'm not denying it but those people walking around need somewhere to go and there are only 9 rides in the entire park. On super crowded days, those 9 rides have 60+ minute waits. In AK it's even worse ride wise.

AK at least has the train and all that animal stuff back there and the shows. HS just has those rides.

 

[Sandisw]

Does anybody happen to remember what the original topic of the thread was?

Well the discussion is about the park reservations system, and a potiental change to it for APs, so much of the discussion is relevant, even when diverging to crowds, reasons, staffing. etc.

All those could really be behind the rumor!

(How‘d I do getting us back?)

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Do you think the labor shortage is unique to Disney?

The depth and severity of it right now? Yes. Universal is not having the same issues that Disney is right now. They are having some, but not to this level. Of course, as i understand it, Universal pays better.

 

[Jonfw2]

The depth and severity of it right now? Yes. Universal is not having the same issues that Disney is right now. They are having some, but not to this level. Of course, as i understand it, Universal pays better.

According to a Google search, WDW had 77,000 employees at the beginning of Covid. Universal Orlando had 25,000.

The scope of the two operations in Orlando is very tough to compare.

Also, the pay between the two appears very similar.

 

[whiteness]

Also, the pay between the two appears very similar.

It's probably easier to work at Universal. My perception, visiting both parks, is that Disney CMs tend to be more "in character" regardless what role they are playing. That's probably not always easy. Especially given everything that's happened in the past 2 years.

I've never worked at either parks, but it seems to me that recruiting and training people to be at Universal is generally easier than Disney.

 

[tjkraz]

If Universal hires 25,000 workers, they're fully staffed.

If Disney hires 25,000 workers, they still need up to 52,000 more. (going by @Jonfw2's numbers)

Without even getting into things like working conditions, appeal of each organization, benefits and other factors, the sheer numbers reflect the much greater challenge Disney faces.

 

[Jonfw2]

It's probably easier to work at Universal. My perception, visiting both parks, is that Disney CMs tend to be more "in character" regardless what role they are playing. That's probably not always easy. Especially given everything that's happened in the past 2 years.

I've never worked at either parks, but it seems to me that recruiting and training people to be at Universal is generally easier than Disney.

I'll push back here, in the friendly and polite way you all know me for earboy2:

Working at Disney World is an aspiration that many people have the life goal of reaching that transcends how hard the job is or how little it pays. No comparison with Universal there.

 

[New Mouse]

Disney could pay more and staff fully. They choose not to because of the profit margins. Right now most upper level management in America have cover due to the "staffing shortage".

The shortage exists but the corporations such as Disney, Walmart, Costco, etc. All have the ability to solve it and remain profitable.


Disney in particular was going through a staffing revolution of sorts for about 10 to 15 years before the pandemic where a focus was on turning full time labor into pt, seasonal and cp labor. They were having staffing struggles across the board at that time, they just weren't as apparent as now.

It's currently a cost benefit analysis where they have determined the revenue they would bring in are not worth the costs it would take to bring in that revenue.

Disney works with a minimum profit margin goal per staff, per food item, per merch item, etc. If they can't hit those percentages, it's better not to offer the product.

It used to be that they overlooked it for things that enhanced the guest experience, but they don't anymore. Look at the cutback in resort activities to see that on a smaller level.

 

[Jonfw2]

Sorry, but I just don't buy any of the arguments here that ignore or brush off the labor shortage. It's worldwide, historic, and in the US we still have two jobs available for every worker. Disney is not immune to this and when they make business decisions to reflect it, they're not being nefarious or greedy any more than any other company is.

 

[tjkraz]

Disney could pay more and staff fully. They choose not to because of the profit margins. Right now most upper level management in America have cover due to the "staffing shortage".

If Disney raises their minimum pay by $1-2 per hour, Universal and others will be forced to follow suit because they're all still grappling over the same labor pool.

Meanwhile, adding that much compensation for the workforce is a massive financial hit. It's not going to take the theme parks from a profit to a loss, but we're dealing with Wall Street who expects to see steady growth. Hiring bonuses don't have the long term implications of salary increases, but again it's mostly a tug-o-war with other area employers.

 

[whiteness]

Disney could pay more and staff fully. They choose not to because of the profit margins. Right now most upper level management in America have cover due to the "staffing shortage".

The shortage exists but the corporations such as Disney, Walmart, Costco, etc. All have the ability to solve it and remain profitable.


Disney in particular was going through a staffing revolution of sorts for about 10 to 15 years before the pandemic where a focus was on turning full time labor into pt, seasonal and cp labor. They were having staffing struggles across the board at that time, they just weren't as apparent as now.

It's currently a cost benefit analysis where they have determined the revenue they would bring in are not worth the costs it would take to bring in that revenue.

Disney works with a minimum profit margin goal per staff, per food item, per merch item, etc. If they can't hit those percentages, it's better not to offer the product.

It used to be that they overlooked it for things that enhanced the guest experience, but they don't anymore. Look at the cutback in resort activities to see that on a smaller level.

Yes, I've heard this as well from "insiders." This trend generally exists in American businesses, today, but some are trying to be "better" at it than others.

Their focus on managing capacity is an aspect of that. Which ties into the original point of this thread.

Of course, labor shortages exist and that explains part of the staffing problems that Disney is having, and the delays in returning rides and attractions to "normal." But it doesn't explain everything. Disney is not a powerless victim of circumstances.

As to Disney being an aspirational job: that may be true, but just because you aspire to something doesn't mean you are qualified to do it, nor does it mean you are local or can afford to self-relocate for the salary and benefits that Disney offers entry level front line CMs.

And I'd guess that a lot of talented, experienced former CMs moved on after the layoffs and might not be coming back. After an experience like that, where a company that you loved and thought loved you back, showed you how little they truly cared...well, maybe it's not quite as aspirational anymore? Maybe some of that magic is gone for potential job seekers, too.

If, as is suggested, Disney relies on public perception to increase it's potential labor pool and recruit good people while keeping costs relatively low, then it's unfortunate for them that circumstances, and Disney's reaction to them, caused that perception to become tarnished in the eyes of many. Disney's most valuable asset (and driver of future profits) is our perception of Disney, in my opinion.

 

[Smugpugmug]

If, as is suggested, Disney relies on public perception to increase it's potential labor pool and recruit good people while keeping costs relatively low, then it's unfortunate for them that circumstances, and Disney's reaction to them, caused that perception to become tarnished in the eyes of many. Disney's most valuable asset (and driver of future profits) is our perception of Disney, in my opinion.

I agree with almost everything you said, but I absolutely agree with this part here. Disney has relied on it's brand and nostalgia for that brand for decades, especially when it comes to hiring employees and paying them low wages. Nostalgia doesn't pay the bills and many potential employees are realizing that and choosing to work elsewhere.

Also an important aspect here is Disney's usage of the College Program. Disney has utilized the College Program for cheap labor for a long time and is doing a lot of the staff offloading onto them. On my last trip I noticed way more CMs than normal discussing their college classes/issues with the program/plans after work directly in front of guests. These college program kids have 12-14 hour shifts, get paid very little and have high rents at the Flamingo Crossing apartments where they live.