WDW and Universal. Who wins?

[Monykalyn]

Agree completely! The C suite has lost sight of what their brand is and how they were once the industry leader. You can't assume you are always going to be in that position if you forget how to be the leader.

Said perfectly.
Disney had a rough patch and was target of hostile takeover before too. Eisner (early years with the other guy who made Eisner wild dreams grounded -great partnering) saved Disney. I suspect Disney is heading to that again but not there yet. Especially if they ditch the parts that don’t work (heloooooo ESPN).
Universal is also playing long game with hook families early with the regional park in TExas. Geared towards younger families.

 

[mercuryvenus]

I want Disney to bring back the value for the vacation. I want Disney to bring back the quality of their theme parks. I disagree with the paying for fast passes in the current iteration because I think it is overly complicated and costs too little. I would rather how other theme parks do it.

I remember in the past Disney was:

• So clean with street cleaners everywhere
• The standby lines went much quicker and when they added Fastpass originally it was only for a few rides. I would rather they go back to that model. (incidently I went to Disney the September of 2020 and really enjoyed not having the Fastpass system. The lines moved a bit faster. The one thing that made the lines worse was the distance between everyone in line meant lines were far past shade barriers and then of course the spacing out in the rides meant that only so many could ride at a time. Finally the cleaning of the rides would lead to a long wait)
• The EMH hours for all hotel guests was a nice perk
• The longer hours at each park for all guests really spread out the crowds
• Park hopping at any time
• Rides operating so that they were running to full capacity to reduce wait times not throttling to reduce staff
• Good quality food at the QS and TS restaurants - quality greatly diminished with the dining plan unfortunately
• Adequate staffing at food service restaurants and the carts around the parks
• A nighttime parade at MK in addition to more fireworks and less projections
• Overall maintenance of the parks from paint to ride maintenance. Disney has given up on this.

So I think this is about way more than just free fastpasses for most. It is about QUALITY & VALUE that Disney has lost. I don't ever remember rides going down regularly while visiting the parks in the past. That is just one indication of why Disney is becoming a lot worse.

They may never be knocked out of the top spot and I agree it can still be a good vacation but it isn't going to be restored to its former glory without a lot of work and effort from Disney management. I also think Universal growing and becoming more immersive will force Disney to have to step up their game and that would only be a good thing. But I don't think Disney has gotten the message yet but I'm pretty sure it will become more evident as the years go by.

You want to pay for more FP? Also, rides went down constantly when we were at Universal. Finally, rides went down when I was at Disney as a kid. Problem was, without an app, there was no way of knowing until you got there.

Park hopping at any time is coming back in January.

The projections are what sets Disney apart from a random town’s fireworks.

 

[Jrb1979]

You want to pay for more FP?

I do. Charging more would also mean less guests have it and than they can drop the return times.

 

[Brian Noble]

One of G+'s biggest problems is too many people buy it, increasing waits for LL returns and making the standby line move even more slowly.

Making it more expensive solves this. But it might also reduce the total revenue it brings in, so Disney might not be that enthusiastic about it.

 

[mercuryvenus]

Said perfectly.
Disney had a rough patch and was target of hostile takeover before too. Eisner (early years with the other guy who made Eisner wild dreams grounded -great partnering) saved Disney. I suspect Disney is heading to that again but not there yet. Especially if they ditch the parts that don’t work (heloooooo ESPN).
Universal is also playing long game with hook families early with the regional park in TExas. Geared towards younger families.

Our group had a hard time with rides for young kids, especially at IoA. If a kid is under 48’’, there’s one ride for them at HP in IoA.

 

[mercuryvenus]

One of G+'s biggest problems is too many people buy it, increasing waits for LL returns and making the standby line move even more slowly.

Making it more expensive solves this. But it might also reduce the total revenue it brings in.

But here’s the problem. Lots of people complain about paying for it. But then people say it’s not expensive enough. So the company can’t win.

 

[Smugpugmug]

But here’s the problem. Lots of people complain about paying for it. But then people say it’s not expensive enough. So the company can’t win.

People also complained when it was free so Disney will not win regardless of what they do. Brian is right in that a big issue is Genie+ is that too many people are buying it.

 

[BrianL]

People also complained when it was free so Disney will not win regardless of what they do. Brian is right in that a big issue is Genie+ is that too many people are buying it.

And, honestly, I'm not sure there is a ceiling on that price. People will pay it. Too many can't stand the idea of waiting in lines, and their WDW vacation is worth anything to them. Again, when we complain about prices, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

[mercuryvenus]

People also complained when it was free so Disney will not win regardless of what they do. Brian is right in that a big issue is Genie+ is that too many people are buying it.

But we still barely wait when we have it. It’s worked really well.

 

[etherealcaitiff]

I do. Charging more would also mean less guests have it and than they can drop the return times.

The option to pay more for better service already exists, it's VIP tours. Every time this conversation comes up, someone says they'd pay more for fastpass, but that they can't afford a VIP tour. So the issue is really that you want Disney to specifically make a product that you can afford that is cheaper than their current option of doing a VIP tour. So really it's the same boat as it is now where some people can afford better service, the others cant, and everyone that can't afford the VIP service complains.

 

[Smugpugmug]

And, honestly, I'm not sure there is a ceiling on that price. People will pay it. Too many can't stand the idea of waiting in lines, and their WDW vacation is worth anything to them. Again, when we complain about prices, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

People willingly pay for those VIP tours, so they'll definitely pay for a $200/person per day skip the line service. I plan on paying for premier access when I go to TDR so yup agree that vacation time is precious and worth the cost.

 

[mercuryvenus]

People willingly pay for those VIP tours, so they'll definitely pay for a $200/person per day skip the line service. I plan on paying for premier access when I go to TDR so yup agree that vacation time is precious and worth the cost.

But if Disney did that—which would put them in line with Universal and other parks that price their fast pass equivalent to the cost of the ticket—people would complain that Disney is too expensive.

Honestly, I was surprised at how long the express pass lines were at Universal, given how expensive they are. Likely it’s because they give it out to everyone at the deluxe hotels.

 

[Smugpugmug]

But if Disney did that—which would put them in line with Universal and other parks that price their fast pass equivalent to the cost of the ticket—people would complain that Disney is too expensive.

Honestly, I was surprised at how long the express pass lines were at Universal, given how expensive they are. Likely it’s because they give it out to everyone at the deluxe hotels.

Like I said above, people complained when it was free. Remember all of the complaints about not being able to get Mine Train, FOP and Slinky? Remember in the paper Fastpass days when people complained about E Tickets being gone within an hour or so after park open? How you'd have to basically run with the bulls to the Fastpass kiosk, which heavily disadvantages those with mobility issues?

All I'm saying is that no matter what Disney does, even give it out for free, people will complain.

 

[mercuryvenus]

Like I said above, people complained when it was free. Remember all of the complaints about not being able to get Mine Train, FOP and Slinky? Remember in the paper Fastpass days when people complained about E Tickets being gone within an hour or so after park open? How you'd have to basically run with the bulls to the Fastpass kiosk, which heavily disadvantages those with mobility issues?

All I'm saying is that no matter what Disney does, even give it out for free, people will complain.

Oh I totally agree. You have people wishing for a return to paper FP, saying it was so stress free. I want to be like “did you and I visit different parks?” I don’t want to go back to the days of running to a machine.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Oh I totally agree. You have people wishing for a return to paper FP, saying it was so stress free. I want to be like “did you and I visit different parks?” I don’t want to go back to the days of running to a machine.

It was stress free for those that weren't the designated runner. I was the runner lol I remember sprinting as if my life depended on it for Soarin and Toy Story Mania.

 

[mercuryvenus]

It was stress free for those that weren't the designated runner. I was the runner lol I remember sprinting as if my life depended on it for Soarin and Toy Story Mania.

Yep, same! I’m sure it was great for the people sitting and waiting for their kids. I was that kid.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The option to pay more for better service already exists, it's VIP tours. Every time this conversation comes up, someone says they'd pay more for fastpass, but that they can't afford a VIP tour. So the issue is really that you want Disney to specifically make a product that you can afford that is cheaper than their current option of doing a VIP tour. So really it's the same boat as it is now where some people can afford better service, the others cant, and everyone that can't afford the VIP service complains.

Eh..there's a difference in the VIP tours and what's being talked about.

VIP tours still exist for those willing to pay but they are on a much higher level of cost scale.

I don't think people remember what the VIP tours are when they talk about them

Straight up from Disney's website:

• Pricing: Ranging from $450 to $900 per hour, depending on the season (valid park admission is required for each park visited on tour and is not included in the price of the tour).
• All Private VIP Tours must be booked for a minimum duration of 7 continuous hours, and your party may include up to 10 Guests, including infants.

Per hour...so no it's not the same boat of people. The highest cost of the EP for our trip was $189.99 for a day per person for Unlimited Park to Park. It can get higher but no not the same as a VIP tour.

Could we personally afford $3,150 for one day (at the lowest end)? I mean yes financially we could but then you're talking about adding on park tickets too.

So no, the VIP tours are not the same as wanting to increase the cost of a paid get ahead of the line system.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Oh I totally agree. You have people wishing for a return to paper FP, saying it was so stress free. I want to be like “did you and I visit different parks?” I don’t want to go back to the days of running to a machine.

To me there's a group of people who used Legacy FP to the greatest advantage and then those that casually used them. My husband and I used Legacy FP for only a few times back in 2011. We def. did not use it to the greatest advantage and could never get one for TSMM. On the other hand back in those days Legacy FP was not as needed in the grand scheme of things and we toured the parks just fine without it, no angst, very little stress, rode quite a lot with the main one being TSMM we did not due to wait times and no FPs available. I'm trying to remember but I don't think Disney had Legacy FP on as much attractions as they did with FP+ and now Genie+/ILL.

These days as time has gone on what you're really seeing is the basic necessity essentially to utilize Disney's system. It was fairly miserable at DL when we didn't use MP so we forked over the $30 per person per day for it for 5 out of 6 days in 2019 (two separate trips three days each). People did lament FP+ absolutely but it's even more ire with a paid system because your experience can be extremely different without paying for it. This emotion is very strong at Disney. It's a bitter pill to swallow when you feel like the only way to really tour a park is to pay money for their system and when you compare it to other parks, WDW especially (DL to a lesser degree at Genie+/ILL works better over there) has a system with just too many people using it, it degrades the experience of those purchasing it, it degrades even further those that don't. If you don't get this more basic aspect you'll probably never understand the complaints towards the system.

 

[Brian Noble]

All I'm saying is that no matter what Disney does, even give it out for free, people will complain.

And that's because, fundamentally, there just isn't a way for everyone to get what they want.

The average attendance at MK is about 47,000 people, give or take, not counting people who started in a different park and hopped there.

The theoretical hourly capacity of that ride is 1,650 guests per hour. That's not what they actually achieve, it's what they would achieve if no train ever took too long to load, every seat was filled, and there was no downtime.

If they ran the ride perfectly for all 24 hours in a day, they'd give about 39,600 rides.

So, even if they never closed the park, never missed a dispatch interval, and filled every single seat on the train, they still can't get everyone who enters on the ride even once. So, no matter what Disney does, someone is going to be disappointed.

(That THRC number is probably pretty close; touringplans has produced some exit counts of guests at various attractions running between about 1100 and 1500 and change per hour.)

 

[HokieRaven5]

And that's because, fundamentally, there just isn't a way for everyone to get what they want.

The average attendance at MK is about 47,000 people, give or take, not counting people who started in a different park and hopped there.

The theoretical hourly capacity of that ride is 1,650 guests per hour. That's not what they actually achieve, it's what they would achieve if no train ever took too long to load, every seat was filled, and there was no downtime. You would need to run the ride for almost 23 hours a day to make sure every one of those guests rode it even once.

If they ran the ride perfectly for all 24 hours in a day, they'd give about 39,600 rides.

So, even if they never closed the park, never missed a dispatch interval, and filled every single seat on the train, they still can't get everyone who enters on the ride even once. So, no matter what Disney does, someone is going to be disappointed.

(That THRC number is probably pretty close; touringplans has produced some exit counts of guests at various attractions running between about 1100 and 1500 and change per hour.)

This is where if Epic actually does wind up eating into the daily guests at Disney World, that’s a good thing for the overall guest experience at hopefully all of the parks in the area.