WDW and DLR to get ESV standing scooters

[mechurchlady]

http://www.mouseplanet.com/articles.php?art=dl081215xx

3 guests from Illinois and Iowa sued Disney because Disney allows ECVs and rents out Segways but will not let guests use any two wheeled vehicle in the parks despite the fact that some disable people use Segways for transportation.

Starting April, 2009 all WDW and DLR parks will be making available for rent the Electric Standing Vehicles (ESV). It is a 4-wheel standing device that is sort of a cross between an ECV and a Segway. Disney decided it was easier to make the ESVs available than battle the lawsuit.

News articles
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=256609

http://www.netcot.com/thesite/2008/12/08/disney-settles-segway-suit/
This site says 15 of the new ESV. Between 6 parks that is kind of thin.

http://www.onpointnews.com/docs/segway4.pdf
The lawsuit, not sure as the PDF was pulling too hard.

The debate is that Disney will let guests come to the park and rent the ESV but not enter on their own ESV or a Segway. What if a perosn in a wheelchair was told that they must get into the park without their chair then have to rent a Disney chair? LUDICROUS is the screams heard round the world. That is the current point of people who use Segways for disabled mobility devices.

They feel that they should be able to take their Segways on public and private transportation like busses and monorails. The feel they should be able to use their segway the same way a scooter or wheelchair in that they should be able to drive right up to park gates and then drive through the parks.

I think the boards need a volunteer to test the ESV, uh, Sue where are you, lol?

 

[pugdog]

The difference is that the Segway is not a covered device under the ADA. That is how WDW can deny people from using them in the park. But settling the lawsuit and going this route makes everyone a winner.

 

[merryweather20]

I wasn't a big fan of this suit. Some promoter came on this site a while back, his position was that his people didn't want to use the wheel-chairs and ECV's available for rent, because they were demeaning. Huh? My wheel-chair is demeaning? I was kind of ticked off about that, if you think a common mobility aid is demeaning then that person needs to get over it! Not make a law-suit! According to their suit, standing or the Segway in particular did not effect functionality (over an actual mobility aid) at all it was all about wheel-chairs being "demeaning".

Disney in no way discriminates against mobility aids or standing mobility aids, I saw a gentleman in a modified standing ECV. He said he had Sciatic (I'm not familiar, but he said it made it difficult to sit). There were also two small children in standing wheelchairs, that I think were on wish trips. Many posters have mentioned using Rollators in the past.

I'm sure it would be tricky to find one of these modified ECV's for short-term use. Hopefully the "ESVs" will be rented by people who can truly benefit from them, and not used up by people like those in the law-suit

 

[mechurchlady]

The difference is that the Segway is not a covered device under the ADA. That is how WDW can deny people from using them in the park. But settling the lawsuit and going this route makes everyone a winner.

If they have their way then they would get the Segway covered under the ADA just like a rollator, ECV, powerchair, or wheelchair. This is a debate that can cause flame wars. I do not want to see another thread closed.

It is hypertheoretical on what could happen though it might never happen. I can use an ECV but could never use an ESV because I would be in severe pain in an hour as standing aggravates my seldom seen, thankfully, sciatica. I set on this board and see people do some really weird stuff but it works in that situation. If you are disable then you do what ever you can to have the best life possible whether it is using a Segway or cutting the crust off your kid's sandwich. I cannot see a use for a Segway as a disabled tool but then again who would think a lot of things I do as being helpful like ...

sorry dinner time.

 

[peemagg]

I almost was going to have to take my "peg leg" to Disney in May, due to the fact that I can't walk for long. It is actually a hands free crutch. I used it after my foot surgery. It was a whole lot more comfortable than using regular crutches or one of those rollalators. I can just see Disney telling me no way could I use that in the parks. I was going to use that instead of renting a scooter, but I now as of yesterday have my own scooter that will be traveling with us.

 

[honugirl]

I'd actually like to see one of these ESV's. I'm having trouble envisioning one. Is there a picture anywhere? I don't think I could ever use one for a full day, especially not right now. I'm prone to sudden dizziness, so sometimes I just need to sit down, which makes an ECV perfect!

 

[Hook's Girl]

I wasn't a big fan of this suit. Some promoter came on this site a while back, his position was that his people didn't want to use the wheel-chairs and ECV's available for rent, because they were demeaning. Huh? My wheel-chair is demeaning? I was kind of ticked off about that, if you think a common mobility aid is demeaning then that person needs to get over it! Not make a law-suit! According to their suit, standing or the Segway in particular did not effect functionality (over an actual mobility aid) at all it was all about wheel-chairs being "demeaning".

Disney in no way discriminates against mobility aids or standing mobility aids, I saw a gentleman in a modified standing ECV. He said he had Sciatic (I'm not familiar, but he said it made it difficult to sit). There were also two small children in standing wheelchairs, that I think were on wish trips. Many posters have mentioned using Rollators in the past.

I'm sure it would be tricky to find one of these modified ECV's for short-term use. Hopefully the "ESVs" will be rented by people who can truly benefit from them, and not used up by people like those in the law-suit

Thank you for saying what I was thinking! Exacatly!

 

[Mary976]

As with many things in life, it may take awhile for laws and regulations to catch up with technology. One of DD's friends has power assist wheels on her manual chair (these require less effort to propel than standard wheels, although they weigh a lot more). Great invention, in my opinion, but when they first came out, they weren't covered by some insurance plans because they were so new. I'm just glad Disney was able to work out a compromise here.

Mary

 

[Cheshire Figment]

I read the agreement (yes, I have this perverse interest in law and am a CPA). It is to Disney's advantage to have the case certified and concluded as a Class Action. One thing that happens is the two organizations are specifically part of the Class, and they can never bring any lawsuit or action on this matter as long as Disney lives up to the agreement.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

I wasn't a big fan of this suit. Some promoter came on this site a while back, his position was that his people didn't want to use the wheel-chairs and ECV's available for rent, because they were demeaning. Huh? My wheel-chair is demeaning? I was kind of ticked off about that, if you think a common mobility aid is demeaning then that person needs to get over it! Not make a law-suit! According to their suit, standing or the Segway in particular did not effect functionality (over an actual mobility aid) at all it was all about wheel-chairs being "demeaning".

Disney in no way discriminates against mobility aids or standing mobility aids, I saw a gentleman in a modified standing ECV. He said he had Sciatic (I'm not familiar, but he said it made it difficult to sit). There were also two small children in standing wheelchairs, that I think were on wish trips. Many posters have mentioned using Rollators in the past.

I'm sure it would be tricky to find one of these modified ECV's for short-term use. Hopefully the "ESVs" will be rented by people who can truly benefit from them, and not used up by people like those in the law-suit

Second that! Oh and give me any of those 'a wheelchair is demeaning to me'-people for breakfast, anyday! The only thing that can make it demeaning is ones own additude about it. Get over yourself already, djeez.


Another thing that has me a bit worried is the technology itself. From what I've seen, Segways are a potential danger. Fast going, and not too easy to use when it comes to making an emergency break. Heck, I was run into by a Segway-tour-leading CM last year and he could see me (and actually did!) from a long distance away. Thanks for me having a large protective powerchair. One a day kept the Segway-CM away (from my lap that is).

True, the ESV is said to be a combination of a Segway and ECV, but it does make me a tad bit anxious. The combination of rental (read; most of the times less experience, at the least with this particular one rented out) and perhaps any more speed and other system to slow down/break does sound possibly dangerous to me.


Overhere in the Netherlands, Segways are only permitted on any not privately owned ground, if one has an approval to use it as a disability aid. They are considered too dangerous to be around otherwise. And guess what? We CAN get it covered, but hardly ever see anyone with one. To be honest; I only see them when there's another item about it in the news.

 

[dclfun]

I hope the rental ESV's have a limit on speed. People run into my power chair and even sometimes don't "see" my service dog and walk straight into us. I don't want to be on the other end of a lawsuit due to a guest taking a joyride ( vs. someone who benefits from such a device) who has injured my SD. I can imagine Epcot during F&W at night with people who have had few too many wine samples driving such a device with little or no training...sigh.---Kathy

 

[peemagg]

Hopefully, if they do rent them, they require people to have some type of documentation to the fact that they need them, not that they just come in with the money to rent them.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

I hope the rental ESV's have a limit on speed. People run into my power chair and even sometimes don't "see" my service dog and walk straight into us. I don't want to be on the other end of a lawsuit due to a guest taking a joyride ( vs. someone who benefits from such a device) who has injured my SD. I can imagine Epcot during F&W at night with people who have had few too many wine samples driving such a device with little or no training...sigh.---Kathy

Yeiks! Didn't even think of that, but that sure doesn't sound very cosy.

 

[mechurchlady]

If Disney asks for proof of disability for an ESV the they would be in violation of the ADA. The ESV has to be treated just like an ECV except they could put age limits for safety reasons like the ECV. The only exception is if the service is above what a nondisabled guest would receive like free admission to State Park or San Diego's Wild Animal Park's companion gets in free offer.

The plans of mice and men, lol.

 

[tarkus]

The difference is that the Segway is not a covered device under the ADA. That is how WDW can deny people from using them in the park. But settling the lawsuit and going this route makes everyone a winner.

Thats hard to say. Will these new devices be FDA approved ?
There is no list of ADA approved devices nor does it state that they must be FDA approved, so this new ESV will be covered under the ADA.

Although I don't agree with the settlement, I'm very interested in the new device Disney is working on. They may have the next wave in aids for people that can stand but not walk distances.

Be Big,
Alan

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Ooops, meant to post this on the OTHER thread about this!

 

[pbrim]

I know the ADA won't let Disney require proof of disability, but can they require proof of competance in using the ESV? I have looked into several Segway tours, at Disney and elsewhere, and there is always an extensive training session beforehand. It seems to me that given their greater complexity, higher speed, and higher center of gravity, they are much more able to cause accident or injury to the user or to others.

I know you generally can't rent a power chair unless you use one regularly because of difficulty to use, and you can't use a powered mobility aid in the parks unless you are 18 or over, so it seems totally possible that they could require some kind of proof of competance in using the ESV.

 

[Talking Hands]

I know the ADA won't let Disney require proof of disability, but can they require proof of competance in using the ESV? I have looked into several Segway tours, at Disney and elsewhere, and there is always an extensive training session beforehand. It seems to me that given their greater complexity, higher speed, and higher center of gravity, they are much more able to cause accident or injury to the user or to others.

I know you generally can't rent a power chair unless you use one regularly because of difficulty to use, and you can't use a powered mobility aid in the parks unless you are 18 or over, so it seems totally possible that they could require some kind of proof of competance in using the ESV.

This is not entirely correct. You can use a powered mobility device if it is your own device even if you are under 18. I know young man who just graduated from Harvard who has been going to Disney since he was a small child and he has never been refused admission because of his power wheelchair. His current wheelchair is one that allows him to stand or sit. When in the stand mode his speed is cut automatically but it allows him the independence to do things he cannot do in a seated position as well have preserving muscle tone in his legs.

 

[SueM in MN]

Article here details the story about the Aug 31, 2012 ruling:
http://www.wdwinfo.com/news/General...als_Court_Upholds_Disney_s_Ban_on_Segways.htm

Basically, the Federal Appeal Court upheld that Disney did not violate the ADA in banning the use of Segways in their parks. In fact, it found that Disney had done a safety assessment that used the safety considerations written in the ADA to determine Segways in the parks would not be safe.

This covers both WDW and Disneyland Park.