WDW and DL Pirates to change Redhead scene

[rootbeerkid]

Just please leave Old Bill unchanged.



"Here kitty, kitty, kitty. Have a little tot of rum with Old Bill, aye?"

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Just please leave Old Bill unchanged.

View attachment 247900

"Here kitty, kitty, kitty. Have a little tot of rum with Old Bill, aye?"

PETA: Alcoholism in cats is not a laughing matter!

 

[bladiator]

Lots of people don't like change. Lots of people don't like change that seems tied to an agenda.

This wraps the entire conversation in concise manner.

When watching it, the "Native American" scenes are terribly racist.

Expect a new Blu-Ray version any day now: "What makes the maroon colored individual that particular hue of pigmented coloration?"

The harsh reality of what this scene is clearly depicting has been severely muted by the ride's iconic status to the point where people are actually defending a scene of this nature, and not only that but genuinely angry about it... It is mind-boggling. What if it were Columbus and the Native Americans? Or the actual African slave trade? But no.. it is funny because it is women and you are just used to seeing that scene. And then it gets blamed on "feminism" "SJW" and "tree hugging hippies".

I'm going to keep responding to these posts until I get some more responses. Has anyone watched an R-rated comedy in the last 5 years? Don't they make fun of some of the most unholy things imaginable? I'm not saying that POTC and Disney should stoop to the levels of R-rated comedies, but it's very odd to me that people continue to say that they find no entertainment in something because it is "bad". People find entertainment in bad things ALL THE TIME! Let's not be two-faced about these things. Or at the very least, make the concession that it needs to be changed only because of children.

This is why it's being defended. Because we live in a world that is all about indulging in things that could be seen by a portion of the population as morally objectionable. So why single this one out?

 

[OSUZorba]

Some of you guys are blowing this wayyy out of proportion. This decision came from Disney. And I say this as somebody who is a huge Pirates of the Caribbean fan.

This has nothing to do with political correctness. It is literally a scene showing women being sold.. which is slavery. Since when is being anti-slavery just another SJW brigade? It's not. It has nothing to do with education or preservation of history either. Historical fact does not equal theme park appropriate. And besides that fact, Disney is not the freakin Smithsonian. Students aren't taught about racism and slavery until middle school. Students aren't taught about rape until middle school. Hell, students aren't even taught about human sex trafficking until college. The scene is barely changing and they are removing something that, frankly, IS problematic because it is a depiction of sex trafficking. The harsh reality of what this scene is clearly depicting has been severely muted by the ride's iconic status to the point where people are actually defending a scene of this nature, and not only that but genuinely angry about it... It is mind-boggling. What if it were Columbus and the Native Americans? Or the actual African slave trade? But no.. it is funny because it is women and you are just used to seeing that scene. And then it gets blamed on "feminism" "SJW" and "tree hugging hippies".

Honestly I am so disappointed in this fandom right now for this level of outcry. Is it sad that they are removing part of Walt's legacy? Of course! But it is time it is gone. The new scene looks badass. The concept art appears to show very minimal changes and I would hope that they will attempt to preserve the more iconic portions of the scene such as the line "we wants the redhead".

Just for the record pirates were/are terrible horrible people that did lots of very bad things and continue to do them to this day. So why is this the only scene that is over the line? For whatever reason, we as a society have decided that pirates are fun to dress as, watch movies/tv of, make fun of, and play as. But if we really want to take a moral stand against depiction of evil in theme park rides, I am not sure how you can say every act against men and property is fine, but this one scene against women is bad.

Also the United States has a federal holiday for Columbus, so I don't know that is a great example that everyone would be outraged about.

 

[DisBabe94]

I'm going to keep responding to these posts until I get some more responses. Has anyone watched an R-rated comedy in the last 5 years? Don't they make fun of some of the most unholy things imaginable? I'm not saying that POTC and Disney should stoop to the levels of R-rated comedies, but it's very odd to me that people continue to say that they find no entertainment in something because it is "bad". People find entertainment in bad things ALL THE TIME! Let's not be two-faced about these things. Or at the very least, make the concession that it needs to be changed only because of children.

This is why it's being defended. Because we live in a world that is all about indulging in things that could be seen by a portion of the population as morally objectionable. So why single this one out?

I'm not saying that it wasn't entertaining, sure it was entertaining just as those raunchy R-rated films are! Disney is a self-professed family destination, so I don't see the weight in saying hey, people like R-rated movies, what gives? Plenty of adults don't like those R-rated movies. Is "people find it entertaining" the minimium threshold for theme park appropriateness? And further, why should it not be changed for children? Further still, children are not the only people who should be "shielded" from these depictions... rape victims, domestic abuse victims, victims of kidnappings, victims of sex trafficking, anybody who is particularly empathetic, anybody who deeply cares for somebody who was a victim of the aforementioned crimes, anybody who has deeply studied these topics, etc.

This is singled out because it is a blatant depiction of sexual slavery, that is treated with a light-hearted tone, featured in a ride that is open to all ages in a family destination.

 

[dlavender]

Just please leave Old Bill unchanged.

View attachment 247900

"Here kitty, kitty, kitty. Have a little tot of rum with Old Bill, aye?"

Too late:

 

[DisBabe94]

Just for the record pirates were/are terrible horrible people that did lots of very bad things and continue to do them to this day. So why is this the only scene that is over the line? For whatever reason, we as a society have decided that pirates are fun to dress as, watch movies/tv of, make fun of, and play as. But if we really want to take a moral stand against depiction of evil in theme park rides, I am not sure how you can say every act against men and property is fine, but this one scene against women is bad.

Also the United States has a federal holiday for Columbus, so I don't know that is a great example that everyone would be outraged about.

This is a great point and I can't really say as to the "appropriateness" of the rest of the ride. Personally, I don't see the burning as being problematic, the well-dunking scene however I do find to be a bit problematic as well as the suicide in Haunted Mansion. Maybe I am more sensitive to the auction scene because I am a woman.

As for Columbus day still being a holiday... don't get me started

 

[adelaster]

Too late:

View attachment 247903

Funny! But milk messes with cats too, so I'm not sure that's an improvement. (Cats of yore liked the cream that rose to the top of freshly milked milk, but are usually lactose intolerant.)

 

[adelaster]

Also the United States has a federal holiday for Columbus, so I don't know that is a great example that everyone would be outraged about.

Curious, do you know people that actually celebrate the day and the man? I've never met anyone who actually thinks he's worth celebrating, but have met plenty of people who think he's not.

 

[Yassdvclb]

What's next? Cruella Deville and her coat?

 

[Dfan79]

rape victims, domestic abuse victims, victims of kidnappings, victims of sex trafficking, anybody who is particularly empathetic, anybody who deeply cares for somebody who was a victim of the aforementioned crimes, anybody who has deeply studied these topics, etc.

This is singled out because it is a blatant depiction of sexual slavery, that is treated with a light-hearted tone, featured in a ride that is open to all ages in a family destination.

Come on, don't you think you're taking it too far?

"Pirates" does not show women being abused or raped. Like Rteetz said earlier "This goes right over the kids heads". And as for adults, they know it is wrong to have a Lady Auction. But these aren't good men, they aren't supposed to be doing good things. Most of the things shown throughout the ride are bad things.

The ride wouldn't be the same if they were playing "Jump Rope" and "Hopscotch". It has to show at least some of the evil crap that pirates delve into. Believe me, it could be worse.

 

[rootbeerkid]

Funny! But milk messes with cats too, so I'm not sure that's an improvement. (Cats of yore liked the cream that rose to the top of freshly milked milk, but are usually lactose intolerant.)

Well then at least don't change the scalawag Gibbs:



He's quiet and apparently loves animals.

 

[OSUZorba]

This is a great point and I can't really say as to the "appropriateness" of the rest of the ride. Personally, I don't see the burning as being problematic, the well-dunking scene however I do find to be a bit problematic as well as the suicide in Haunted Mansion. Maybe I am more sensitive to the auction scene because I am a woman.

I was actually just about to ask you about the suicide scene at Haunted Mansion.

Like I said earlier I don't really have an issue with the scene changing. But I don't like whitewashing history/art, and I'd rather my daughter see uncomfortable things and have an open conversation with her about it than shelter her. The other problem is if you try to rid the world of everything offensive to someone, there would be nothing left. So then you always have double standards in your implementation of what needs to go and stay, so you are going to always have disagreement about where the line is because different people react to different things differently.

I personally try to look at the intent. I don't think this scene is trying to encouraging sex trafficing or attempting to say it is a good thing, yeah it does depict it humorously, but the entirety of the ride shows that pirates are bad people. Just like I don't think the suicide scene in Haunted Mansion is attempting to encourage suicide. However, there are many racist and sexist things in the world where the intent is obviously to marginalize and hurt other people, and I do think those things should be rooted out and eliminated.

As far as being a women, that obviously affects your views on the issue, but make sure you don't fall into the belief that all women agree with you. My wife is far more upset about this change than I am.

As for Columbus day still being a holiday... don't get me started

I have a feeling you and I would agree quite a bit on this subject.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Just for the record pirates were/are terrible horrible people that did lots of very bad things and continue to do them to this day. So why is this the only scene that is over the line? For whatever reason, we as a society have decided that pirates are fun to dress as, watch movies/tv of, make fun of, and play as. But if we really want to take a moral stand against depiction of evil in theme park rides, I am not sure how you can say every act against men and property is fine, but this one scene against women is bad.

Also the United States has a federal holiday for Columbus, so I don't know that is a great example that everyone would be outraged about.

Well, a lot of places no longer celebrate Columbus Day - we were out in California one year at that time and there was no day off for anyone there for it and no celebration

Meanwhile, where I live in New York it isn't contained to one day but they have celebrations for Columbus Day across multiple weekends

 

[OSUZorba]

Curious, do you know people that actually celebrate the day and the man? I've never met anyone who actually thinks he's worth celebrating, but have met plenty of people who think he's not.

Yes, it is still celebrated in elementary schools all over the place. There are a ton of people that also fight against removing the holiday.

BTW: I really didn't want to start a debate about Columbus. I was just saying it wasn't a good example of something that would cause universal outrage, as opposed to the implication that only some people were outraged by sex trafficing.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Curious, do you know people that actually celebrate the day and the man? I've never met anyone who actually thinks he's worth celebrating, but have met plenty of people who think he's not.

Columbus Day is a multi-weekend celebration around where I live with festivals and parades

 

[adelaster]

Well then at least don't change the scalawag Gibbs:

View attachment 247906

He's quiet and apparently loves animals.

One of my cats tries to get booze and icecream whenever he can. He even dipped his paw in the glass once! I must be ever so much more vigilant than a drunken pirate.

 

[adelaster]

Columbus Day is a multi-weekend celebration around where I live with festivals and parades

Well, a lot of places no longer celebrate Columbus Day - we were out in California one year at that time and there was no day off for anyone there for it and no celebration

Meanwhile, where I live in New York it isn't contained to one day but they have celebrations for Columbus Day across multiple weekends

Yes, it is still celebrated in elementary schools all over the place. There are a ton of people that also fight against removing the holiday.

BTW: I really didn't want to start a debate about Columbus. I was just saying it wasn't a good example of something that would cause universal outrage, as opposed to the implication that only some people were outraged by sex trafficing.

Wow! I would be very interested to see a regional map of the celebrations. Everyone does not even get it off where I live, and that's in a city named after him!

ETA: It appears that some cities are changing it to "Indigenous Peoples Day" - there's a lot of news stories on the topic. I was unaware!

 

[dlavender]

Well then at least don't change the scalawag Gibbs:

View attachment 247906

He's quiet and apparently loves animals.

Stop giving them ideas!

 

[DisBabe94]

Come on, don't you think you're taking it too far?

"Pirates" does not show women being abused or raped. Like Rteetz said earlier "This goes right over the kids heads". And as for adults, they know it is wrong to have a Lady Auction. But these aren't good men, they aren't supposed to be doing good things. Most of the things shown throughout the ride are bad things.

The ride wouldn't be the same if they were playing "Jump Rope" and "Hopscotch". It has to show at least some of the evil crap that pirates delve into. Believe me, it could be worse.

I'm not sure what you mean about Jump rope.. plenty of the debauchery will live on... With just a splash less sexual slavery. Of course it could be worse.. the things that pirates did were horrendous. But that doesn't make it appropriate for a theme park, in my opinion. They have to draw the line somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more alterations to the ride in the future, the well-dunking scene comes to mind there. Torture isn't a family-friendly concept, in my opinion. I also wouldn't be surprised to see the suicide scene changed in Haunted Mansion eventually.

I'm not saying that Disney should change the ride *solely* to preserve the feelings of people who are victims of these crimes.. the reasons are many. I was pointing out that there are more groups of people who would be affected by this scene other than children. Do you have any experience with victims? How can you say that that scene wouldn't affect those people?