WBRepo-Ship of Thieves-Remember the Magic Pt3

[edna mode]

We lived in Anaheim in '71. I slept thru it, but Dennis said I was bouncing a foot or so off the bed. Sound sleeper.

So, you're really good with rough seas!


A friend just received this article this morning:

EXTRACT FROM DOUG COPP'S ARTICLE ON THE: 'TRIANGLE OF LIFE'

My name is Doug Copp. I am the Rescue Chief and Disaster Manager of the
American Rescue Team International (ARTI), the world's most experienced
rescue team. The information in this article will save lives in an earthquake.

I have crawled inside 875 collapsed buildings, worked with rescue teams
from 60 countries, founded rescue teams in several countries, and I am a
member of many rescue teams from many countries..

I was the United Nations expert in Disaster Mitigation for two years. I
have worked at every major disaster in the world since 1985, except for
simultaneous disasters.

The first building I ever crawled inside of was a school in Mexico City
during the 1985 earthquake. Every child was under its desk. Every child
was crushed to the thickness of their bones. They could have survived by
lying down next to their desks in the aisles. It was obscene, unnecessary and
I wondered why the children were not in the aisles. I didn't at the time
know that the children were told to hide under something.

Simply stated, when buildings collapse, the weight of the ceilings
falling upon the objects or furniture inside crushes these objects, leaving a
space or void next to them. This space is what I call the 'triangle of life'.
The larger the object, the stronger, the less it will compact. The less the
object compacts, the larger the void, the greater the probability that
the person who is using this void for safety will not be injured. The next
time you watch collapsed buildings, on television, count the 'triangles' you
see formed. They are everywhere. It is the most common shape, you will see,
in a collapsed building.




TIPS FOR EARTHQUAKE SAFETY

1) Most everyone who simply 'ducks and covers' WHEN BUILDINGS COLLAPSE are crushed to death. People who get under objects, like desks or cars, are crushed.

2) Cats, dogs and babies often naturally curl up in the fetal position.
You should too in an earthquake.. It is a natural safety/survival instinct. You can survive in a smaller void. Get next to an object, next to a sofa, next to a large bulky object that will compress slightly but leave a void next to it.

3) Wooden buildings are the safest type of construction to be in during
an earthquake. Wood is flexible and moves with the force of the earthquake.
If the wooden building does collapse, large survival voids are created.
Also, the wooden building has less concentrated, crushing weight. Brick
buildings will break into individual bricks. Bricks will cause many injuries but
less squashed bodies than concrete slabs.

4) If you are in bed during the night and an earthquake occurs, simply
roll off the bed. A safe void will exist around the bed. Hotels can achieve a
much greater survival rate in earthquakes, simply by posting a sign on The back of the door of every room telling occupants to lie down on the floor, next to the bottom of the bed during an earthquake.

5) If an earthquake happens and you cannot easily escape by getting out
the door or window, then lie down and curl up in the fetal position next to
a sofa, or large chair.

6) Most everyone who gets under a doorway when buildings collapse is
killed. How? If you stand under a doorway and the doorjamb falls forward or
backward you will be crushed by the ceiling above. If the door jam falls sideways you will be cut in half by the doorway. In either case, you will be killed!

7) Never go to the stairs. The stairs have a different 'moment of
frequency' (they swing separately from the main part of the building).
The stairs and remainder of the building continuously bump into each
other until structural failure of the stairs takes place. The people who get
on stairs before they fail are chopped up by the stair treads - horribly
mutilated. Even if the building doesn't collapse, stay away from the
stairs. The stairs are a likely part of the building to be damaged. Even if the
stairs are not collapsed by the earthquake, they may collapse later when
overloaded by fleeing people. They should always be checked for safety,
even when the rest of the building is not damaged.


8) Get Near the Outer Walls Of Buildings Or Outside Of Them If Possible
- It is much better to be near the outside of the building rather than
the interior. The farther inside you are from the outside perimeter of the
building the greater the probability that your escape route will be
blocked.

9) People inside of their vehicles are crushed when the road above falls
in an earthquake and crushes their vehicles; which is exactly what happened
with the slabs between the decks of the Nimitz Freeway.. The victims of
the San Francisco earthquake all stayed inside of their vehicles. They were
all killed. They could have easily survived by getting out and sitting or
lying next to their vehicles. Everyone killed would have survived if they had
been able to get out of their cars and sit or lie next to them. All the
crushed cars had voids 3 feet high next to them, except for the cars that had
columns fall directly across them.

10) I discovered, while crawling inside of collapsed newspaper offices
and other offices with a lot of paper, that paper does not compact.
Large voids are found surrounding stacks of paper.

Spread the word and save someone's life... The Entire world is
experiencing natural calamities so be prepared!

 

[edna mode]

How strong was that one?

When the Indiana-Illinois quake hit April 18 slept through it. We have a water bed and sleep through the movement of each other so maybe that is what it seemed like. The aftershock came when I was driving and they said it is not as noticable in a moving car unless things around you start to go.

The first quake was a 5.2 or 5.4 (depending on which source you read) but the epicenter was 165 miles southwest of us. It was felt in Chicago, middle of Michigan, Cincinnati, etc.

Jan

The 1971 San Fernando earthquake struck at 6:00:55 a.m. PST on the morning of February 9, 1971. The earthquake that rocked the northern San Fernando Valley, near Sylmar measured magnitude 6.6 on the Richter magnitude scale.[1] It lasted over one minute, which feels like 30 min. when you are moving that much.

 

[mishoe01]

We lived in Anaheim in '71. I slept thru it, but Dennis said I was bouncing a foot or so off the bed. Sound sleeper.

I slept through an earthquake (I think in Chile) when I was about 5 - my sister told me she woke up, looked over at me and saw me asleep in my bed with my bed going across the floor.


Glad to hear everyone is ok.

 

[granmaz]

Kelly, that is life saving info there.

Of course we never have to prepare for earthquakes, but from what I have seen said on tv I would have gone under a table.

 

[Tink rules]

& just to make a little light of it...

I'd have grabbed Chocolate and taken it with me!!!

 

[granmaz]

& just to make a little light of it...

I'd have grabbed Chocolate and taken it with me!!!

Now, is chocolate included in the earthquake kit?

 

[HollyTyler]

We lived in Anaheim in '71. I slept thru it, but Dennis said I was bouncing a foot or so off the bed. Sound sleeper.

 

[JLSE50]

I am sure I brought these pictures of Deborah's over but Olivia is SO CUTE I am copying them over here again!

Olivia at Westbound Panama Canal May 08

Aruba

Scottishwee35

ACAPULCO

see the people as they were shouting 'WE WANT MICKEY'

Scottishwee35

ACAPULCO

Finally Pluto came out

Scottishwee35

ACAPULCO

and the Minnie came out too

Scottishwee35

 

[gaylean93]

Those pictures bring back great memories of Disney going above and beyond in Acapulco. I hated that port and it was a highlight to see those kids screaming and watching the characters. I think I even shed a tear or two.

 

[JLSE50]

The 1971 San Fernando earthquake struck at 6:00:55 a.m. PST on the morning of February 9, 1971. The earthquake that rocked the northern San Fernando Valley, near Sylmar measured magnitude 6.6 on the Richter magnitude scale.[1] It lasted over one minute, which feels like 30 min. when you are moving that much.

Wow long and strong.

Jan

 

[JLSE50]

More of Deborah's pictures. I am having such a good time seeing these again! I hope you all do not mind me posting them here.

Jan

Castaway

Scottishwee35

Early morning at Panama Canal

Scottishwee35

At night after through the Panama Canal

Scottishwee35

 

[JLSE50]

So, you're really good with rough seas!


A friend just received this article this morning:

EXTRACT FROM DOUG COPP'S ARTICLE ON THE: 'TRIANGLE OF LIFE'

My name is Doug Copp. I am the Rescue Chief and Disaster Manager of the
American Rescue Team International (ARTI), the world's most experienced
rescue team. The information in this article will save lives in an earthquake.

.......

Spread the word and save someone's life... The Entire world is
experiencing natural calamities so be prepared!

I copied this to save it and when I did, a link appeared under his name so I clicked that and found an article from the American Red Cross that says American construction is different from other countries so safety practices in an earthquake is different.

American Red Cross response to "Triangle of Life" by Doug Copp
Sent from Rocky Lopes, PhD
Manager, Community Disaster Education
American Red Cross National Headquarters

Recently it has been brought to my attention that an email from Doug Copp, titled "Triangle of Life," is making its rounds again on the Internet. "Drop, Cover, and Hold On" is CORRECT, accurate, and APPROPRIATE for use in the United States for Earthquake safety. Mr. Copp's assertions in his message that everyone is always crushed if they get under something is incorrect.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Recently, the American Red Cross became aware of a challenge to the earthquake safety advice "Drop, Cover, and Hold On." This is according to information from Mr. Doug Copp, the Rescue Chief and Disaster Manager of American Rescue Team International (a private company not affiliated with the U.S. Government or other agency.) He says that going underneath objects during an earthquake [as in children being told to get under their desks at school] is very dangerous, and fatal should the building collapse in a strong earthquake. He also states that "everyone who gets under a doorway when a building collapses is killed." He further states that "if you are in bed when an earthquake happens, to roll out of bed next to it," and he also says that "If an earthquake happens while you are watching television and you cannot easily escape by getting out the door or window, then lie down and curl up in the fetal position next to a sofa, or large chair." These recommendations are inaccurate for application in the United States and inconsistent with information developed through earthquake research. Mr. Copp based his statements on observations of damage to buildings after an earthquake in Turkey. It is like "apples and oranges" to compare building construction standards, techniques, engineering principles, and construction materials between Turkey and the United States.

We at the American Red Cross have studied the research on the topic of earthquake safety for many years. We have benefited from extensive research done by the California Office of Emergency Services, California Seismic Safety Commission, professional and academic research organizations, and emergency management agencies, who have also studied the recommendation to "drop, cover, and hold on!" during the shaking of an earthquake. Personally, I have also benefited from those who preceded me in doing earthquake education in California since the Field Act was passed in 1933.

What the claims made by Mr. Copp of ARTI, Inc., does not seem to distinguish is that the recommendation to "drop, cover, and hold on!" is a U.S.-based recommendation based on U.S. Building Codes and construction standards. Much research in the United States has confirmed that "Drop, Cover, and Hold On!" has saved lives in the United States. Engineering researchers have demonstrated that very few buildings collapse or "pancake" in the U.S. as they might do in other countries. Using a web site to show one picture of one U.S. building that had a partial collapse after a major quake in an area with thousands of buildings that did not collapse during the same quake is inappropriate and misleading.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), which collects data on injuries and deaths from all reportable causes in the U.S., as well as data from three University-based studies performed after the Loma Prieta (September, 1989) and Northridge (January, 1994) earthquakes in California, the following data are indicated: Loma Prieta: 63 deaths, approximately 3,700 people were injured. Most injuries happened as a result of the collapse of the Cypress Street section of I-880 in Oakland. Northridge: 57 deaths, 1,500 serious injuries. Most injuries were from falls caused by people trying to get out of their homes, or serious cuts and broken bones when people ran, barefooted, over broken glass (the earthquake happened in the early morning on a federal holiday when many people were still in bed.) There were millions of people in each of these earthquake-affected areas, and of those millions, many of them reported to have "dropped, covered, and held on" during the shaking of the earthquake.

We contend that "Drop, Cover, and Hold On" indeed SAVED lives, not killed people. Because the research continues to demonstrate that, in the U.S., "Drop, Cover, and Hold On!" works, the American Red Cross remains behind that recommendation. It is the simplest, reliable, and easiest method to teach people, including children.

The American Red Cross has not recommended use of a doorway for earthquake protection for more than a decade. The problem is that many doorways are not built into the structural integrity of a building, and may not offer protection. Also, simply put, doorways are not suitable for more than one person at a time.

The Red Cross, remaining consistent with the information published in "Talking About Disaster: Guide for Standard Messages," (visit http://www.disastereducation.org/guide.html ) states that if you are in bed when an earthquake happens, remain there. Rolling out of bed may lead to being injured by debris on the floor next to the bed. If you have done a good job of earthquake mitigation (that is, removing pictures or mirrors that could fall on a bed; anchoring tall bedroom furniture to wall studs, and the like), then you are safer to stay in bed rather than roll out of it during the shaking of an earthquake.

Also, the Red Cross strongly advises not try to move (that is, escape) during the shaking of an earthquake. The more and the longer distance that someone tries to move, the more likely they are to become injured by falling or flying debris, or by tripping, falling, or getting cut by damaged floors, walls, and items in the path of escape. Identifying potential "void areas" and planning on using them for earthquake protection is more difficult to teach, and hard to remember for people who are not educated in earthquake engineering principles. The Red Cross is not saying that identifying potential voids is wrong or inappropriate. What we are saying is that "Drop, Cover, and Hold On!" is NOT wrong -- in the United States. The American Red Cross, being a U.S.-based organization, does not extend its recommendations to apply in other countries. What works here may not work elsewhere, so there is no dispute that the "void identification method" or the "Triangle of Life" may indeed be the best thing to teach in other countries where the risk of building collapse, even in moderate earthquakes, is great.


The article is here:
http://www2.bpaonline.org/Emergencyprep/arc-on-doug-copp.html

Jan

 

[scottishwee35]

Hello Everybody

I still need catch up pages

To all LA/Calofornia people - glad you all are okay with earthquake!!

Those pictures bring back great memories of Disney going above and beyond in Acapulco. I hated that port and it was a highlight to see those kids screaming and watching the characters. I think I even shed a tear or two.

I know me too, I was emotional too to watch them.

Okay

I am off to bed and I will catch up tomorrow as I was very tired today and had been working too.

Have a nice evening to all

Scottishwee35

 

[edna mode]

Kelly, that is life saving info there.

Of course we never have to prepare for earthquakes, but from what I have seen said on tv I would have gone under a table.

They are interviewing all the people visiting from out of town at Disneyland about their thoughts on the earthquake.

Now, is chocolate included in the earthquake kit?

Smart people do!

I copied this to save it and when I did, a link appeared under his name so I clicked that and found an article from the American Red Cross that says American construction is different from other countries so safety practices in an earthquake is different.

American Red Cross response to "Triangle of Life" by Doug Copp
Sent from Rocky Lopes, PhD
Manager, Community Disaster Education
American Red Cross National Headquarters

Recently it has been brought to my attention that an email from Doug Copp, titled "Triangle of Life," is making its rounds again on the Internet. "Drop, Cover, and Hold On" is CORRECT, accurate, and APPROPRIATE for use in the United States for Earthquake safety. Mr. Copp's assertions in his message that everyone is always crushed if they get under something is incorrect.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Recently, the American Red Cross became aware of a challenge to the earthquake safety advice "Drop, Cover, and Hold On." This is according to information from Mr. Doug Copp, the Rescue Chief and Disaster Manager of American Rescue Team International (a private company not affiliated with the U.S. Government or other agency.) He says that going underneath objects during an earthquake [as in children being told to get under their desks at school] is very dangerous, and fatal should the building collapse in a strong earthquake. He also states that "everyone who gets under a doorway when a building collapses is killed." He further states that "if you are in bed when an earthquake happens, to roll out of bed next to it," and he also says that "If an earthquake happens while you are watching television and you cannot easily escape by getting out the door or window, then lie down and curl up in the fetal position next to a sofa, or large chair." These recommendations are inaccurate for application in the United States and inconsistent with information developed through earthquake research. Mr. Copp based his statements on observations of damage to buildings after an earthquake in Turkey. It is like "apples and oranges" to compare building construction standards, techniques, engineering principles, and construction materials between Turkey and the United States.

We at the American Red Cross have studied the research on the topic of earthquake safety for many years. We have benefited from extensive research done by the California Office of Emergency Services, California Seismic Safety Commission, professional and academic research organizations, and emergency management agencies, who have also studied the recommendation to "drop, cover, and hold on!" during the shaking of an earthquake. Personally, I have also benefited from those who preceded me in doing earthquake education in California since the Field Act was passed in 1933.

What the claims made by Mr. Copp of ARTI, Inc., does not seem to distinguish is that the recommendation to "drop, cover, and hold on!" is a U.S.-based recommendation based on U.S. Building Codes and construction standards. Much research in the United States has confirmed that "Drop, Cover, and Hold On!" has saved lives in the United States. Engineering researchers have demonstrated that very few buildings collapse or "pancake" in the U.S. as they might do in other countries. Using a web site to show one picture of one U.S. building that had a partial collapse after a major quake in an area with thousands of buildings that did not collapse during the same quake is inappropriate and misleading.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), which collects data on injuries and deaths from all reportable causes in the U.S., as well as data from three University-based studies performed after the Loma Prieta (September, 1989) and Northridge (January, 1994) earthquakes in California, the following data are indicated: Loma Prieta: 63 deaths, approximately 3,700 people were injured. Most injuries happened as a result of the collapse of the Cypress Street section of I-880 in Oakland. Northridge: 57 deaths, 1,500 serious injuries. Most injuries were from falls caused by people trying to get out of their homes, or serious cuts and broken bones when people ran, barefooted, over broken glass (the earthquake happened in the early morning on a federal holiday when many people were still in bed.) There were millions of people in each of these earthquake-affected areas, and of those millions, many of them reported to have "dropped, covered, and held on" during the shaking of the earthquake.

We contend that "Drop, Cover, and Hold On" indeed SAVED lives, not killed people. Because the research continues to demonstrate that, in the U.S., "Drop, Cover, and Hold On!" works, the American Red Cross remains behind that recommendation. It is the simplest, reliable, and easiest method to teach people, including children.

The American Red Cross has not recommended use of a doorway for earthquake protection for more than a decade. The problem is that many doorways are not built into the structural integrity of a building, and may not offer protection. Also, simply put, doorways are not suitable for more than one person at a time.

The Red Cross, remaining consistent with the information published in "Talking About Disaster: Guide for Standard Messages," (visit http://www.disastereducation.org/guide.html ) states that if you are in bed when an earthquake happens, remain there. Rolling out of bed may lead to being injured by debris on the floor next to the bed. If you have done a good job of earthquake mitigation (that is, removing pictures or mirrors that could fall on a bed; anchoring tall bedroom furniture to wall studs, and the like), then you are safer to stay in bed rather than roll out of it during the shaking of an earthquake.

Also, the Red Cross strongly advises not try to move (that is, escape) during the shaking of an earthquake. The more and the longer distance that someone tries to move, the more likely they are to become injured by falling or flying debris, or by tripping, falling, or getting cut by damaged floors, walls, and items in the path of escape. Identifying potential "void areas" and planning on using them for earthquake protection is more difficult to teach, and hard to remember for people who are not educated in earthquake engineering principles. The Red Cross is not saying that identifying potential voids is wrong or inappropriate. What we are saying is that "Drop, Cover, and Hold On!" is NOT wrong -- in the United States. The American Red Cross, being a U.S.-based organization, does not extend its recommendations to apply in other countries. What works here may not work elsewhere, so there is no dispute that the "void identification method" or the "Triangle of Life" may indeed be the best thing to teach in other countries where the risk of building collapse, even in moderate earthquakes, is great.


The article is here:
http://www2.bpaonline.org/Emergencyprep/arc-on-doug-copp.html

Jan

Thanks, I'm going to send this to my friend who sent the other one. You can see where different perspectives can have different opinions. It's all about what they've experienced. I like all of it - having as much info as possible to draw on. Good clicking, Jan!

 

[fourmcds]

Glad to hear that you guys are all ok!

 

[JLSE50]

....
Thanks, I'm going to send this to my friend who sent the other one. You can see where different perspectives can have different opinions. It's all about what they've experienced. I like all of it - having as much info as possible to draw on. Good clicking, Jan!

Thanks, that's what I figure--more info is always good. I have saved both articles now.

Thanks for sharing what you shared. Since we had the earthquake in April, we may have another--this is the New Madrid Fault and a few radiating faults off it.

Jan

 

[nskjerven]

We got the word last night that the buyer is ready to move forward!!! We sign the paperwork tomorrow and close on Aug 5! My last day of work will be THIS THURSDAY! Wow, 2 more days! Dennis is working his last day today!!

Great news

 

[HollyTyler]

Those pictures bring back great memories of Disney going above and beyond in Acapulco. I hated that port and it was a highlight to see those kids screaming and watching the characters. I think I even shed a tear or two.

What was going on? What kids? What was Disney doing?

 

[nskjerven]

How about Nan and her family? Aren't they driving to where Wilson's race will be?

She is far away. She may have felt it but not like us.

We're fine and didn't feel it at all.

Glad to see you are all okay.

The boys are at the track (in racing heaven I believe) and Molly and I have been hanging in our hotel room and Gaylean we are approaching being...

BORED

Tomorrow I'll drop them at the track and we will have the car to mess around town. Then Thursday is the big race

 

[iankh]

How is that possible when I've gotten ten calls since it happened? My cell seems to be down but the house is fine. Which is strange because we have been having problems with the house phone going out for a month now.

Gaylean, we are so relieved to hear that you are ok.