Was Pierzynski OUT or NOT?

[Tigger&Belle]

There is 1 good thing about all of this though!!!

It teachs those that do not know the full rules of baseball a little more than trying to explain it. My wife keeps telling me stirke 3 he's out...but I had to explain the dropped ball with noone on first rule...then she understood. She told me she never understood when she see's me telling the kids to run during a game even though it was stirke 3...now she....and many others know

True! I remember when my older son was on a team that was finally old enough to have the dropped strike rule. The first time it happened none of the parents knew that the rule was now followed (those that even knew about the rule) and the kids on my son's team obviously didn't know. The look on their faces when the kid who was just struck out ran to first was priceless. LOL They must have been thinking, "WTH?"

 

[foolishmortal]

You can't compare the NFL and MLB when it comes to something like this. One main reason -- referees use the same signal with regards to the end of a play, no matter who the ref is. The whistle blow.

But in MLB, where umpires are regarded as some sort of deity (ever wonder why there's never an instant replay of a close call shown in a MLB park?), every umpire feels like he has to have a "style" One ump makes a big show of calling a strike three, while another one barely acts like he's awake and so on. So you end up with 17 interpretations of whether or not an ump's fist in the air is a strike three call or an out call.

I'm not disputing that this didn't lose the game for the Angels, because it didn't. Heck, I'm not even arguing whether or not the ball bounced. I'm just arguing that every time one of these calls happens in baseball, the umpires are always quick to come up with all these defenses as to why they're always right and everyone else was wrong.

So I understand where you're coming from then..I agree with you on that!!!!!

 

[Tigger&Belle]

But in MLB, where umpires are regarded as some sort of deity (ever wonder why there's never an instant replay of a close call shown in a MLB park?), every umpire feels like he has to have a "style" One ump makes a big show of calling a strike three, while another one barely acts like he's awake and so on. So you end up with 17 interpretations of whether or not an ump's fist in the air is a strike three call or an out call.

I didn't realize that this was the case in MLB. It's one of my complaints watching my son's 13U team play. Some umps clearly call everything out and some can't be heard even when sitting near them. Sometimes we'll think it's a ball and it's really a strike or visa versa. They should be able to project their voice so everyone close at least can hear.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

I'm not disputing that this didn't lose the game for the Angels, because it didn't. Heck, I'm not even arguing whether or not the ball bounced. I'm just arguing that every time one of these calls happens in baseball, the umpires are always quick to come up with all these defenses as to why they're always right and everyone else was wrong.

We don't know if it did or not--it would have ended the 9th inning, tied, and we don't know what would have happened in the 10th, etc inning.

 

[CharlesTD]

He was out and that was a terrible call especially when the home plate ump clearly signaled he was out. This is going to go down as one of the worst calls in layoff baseball history and rightfully so. Kinda funny because I hate baseball and even I could see that was a terrible call to overturn the home plate ump.

 

[MUFFYCAT]

I think he was out. But the Angels weren't exactly robbed. The score was tied at that point. It wasn't like the Sox were behind and that play let the inning go on for come from behind win.
It was a bad call that happens alot because baseball doesn't use instant reply.

 

[disneydude91]

They showed multiple replays during the broadcast and there was no doubt that the catcher caught the ball. This is a cheap win for the White Sox! The play would not have ended the game but it would have taken it to extra innings. Even after the game the umpire still thought he was right even after seeing replays. If the Angels lose this series by one game it will be because of this one bad call!

 

[Tigger&Belle]

This is a cheap win for the White Sox!

You sound just like my DH! He was so mad--he is ok with the Angels not winning a game, but not on a bad call.

 

[wvrevy]

I hate major league baseball (well, "hate" is probably too strong a word, but I'm certainly not a big fan), and could care less who won the game. If anything, I'd like to see the Sox win it, just 'cause they haven't in so long and Chicago could use the lift That said, the ump blew the call. Period. If the catcher had a doubt in his mind at all that he caught the ball cleanly, he'd have tagged the batter or thrown to first. He didn't do either, because he knew he'd caught it cleanly.

This is the reason that instant replay is important. The game should be decided by the players, not some self-important wannabe athlete that wasn't good enough to play. That goes for football, baseball, basketball, tennis, and every other sport on the face of the planet. We have easy access to the technology that would ensure that human error on the part of a non-participant does not decide the game. How anyone with any sense at all could argue against that is simply beyond my understanding.

 

[Dan Murphy]

I agree with FM here. Strange play, but according to the letter of the rules, as MLB is played, sometimes plays do seem strange, especially in comparison to a 'normal' play. So many of the 'little rules' make the difference in a game, and sometimes even moreso in playoffs.

 

[foolishmortal]

whoo hoo I'm not alone.....

 

[Bob Slydell]

whoo hoo I'm not alone.....

Pssst -- it's you and two Chicago-ites.

 

[LvsTnk]

Pssst -- it's you and two Chicago-ites.

Make that 3!!!!

Pierzyinski is one smart baseball player and that's all there is to it...Glad he is a Chicago White Sox.

No out was called period, yes watch the replays, a strike was signaled.

To quote Scioscia "There's alot of focus on that play, but the bottom line is we didn't play at a high enough level to win the game".

No question about it the WS will have to play their hearts out to win tonight, but that's what makes this series so awesome the match up is perfect. I sat through all nine innings on Tues. at the cell and it ended 2-1, tells you something. This is 2 GREAT teams.

 

[pozey]

To reiterate.....I am a Cardinals fan, so I don't care who wins this series....but..

No out was called period, yes watch the replays, a strike was signaled.

This is incorrect. This particular umpire during the game, when calling a strike, would stand up, turn to the side and point his finger when calling a strike.

On this play, he stood up, put out his arm with a flat palm - which is generally used to signal swing, but no contact - then he CLEARLY clenched his fist with a bent elbow - which is a universal sign for out.

 

[Doctor P]

No one has responded to the major points that has been made over and over by the former players who have been analyzing the play. 1) AJ had this play in mind because he got burned by it last year while catching in SF and made the same mistake Josh Paul did; 2) AJ was in front of this umpire the whole night and was fully aware of the verbalizations the guy was using to call people out--especially on strikeouts---Josh Paul was new into the game. The only Angels catcher they quoted about the thing was Benjie Molina who was not catching last night (but was in the lineup). Jose Molina has been conspicuously silent through this whole thing--PERHAPS because he knows the same thing that AJ does--the ump was verbalizing his out calls in a particular way all night; 3) in real time, the delay by AJ was very slight (much less of a delay than it looked like when I first saw it)--he didn't hear the out call and it suddenly registered with him so he took off.

That said, the ump didn't steal second base for Ozuna, nor did he throw the hanging splitter that Crede rapped to the wall on an 0-2 count. It was unfortunate that there was any doubt put into the White Sox win, because the LAA simply played worse than the White Sox for most of the game last night and were somewhat lucky given their mistakes to even have a bottom of the ninth (though the White Sox made enough mistakes also to get them to the bottom of the ninth). Bottom line is that Buehrle really deserved to win the game the way he pitched.

 

[LvsTnk]

To reiterate.....I am a Cardinals fan, so I don't care who wins this series....but..


This is incorrect. This particular umpire during the game, when calling a strike, would stand up, turn to the side and point his finger when calling a strike.

On this play, he stood up, put out his arm with a flat palm - which is generally used to signal swing, but no contact - then he CLEARLY clenched his fist with a bent elbow - which is a universal sign for out.

Incorrect by who...all the umpires agreed... he had been doing it all night for a strike. Weather the average person agrees I guess is what this thread is about. As I teach my kids you can argue all you want with an umpire or reff but that is who calls the game. I still say Pierzynski is one smart ball player.

 

[jellymanoffspring]

OK I am confused ..that happened to be the only play I saw last night...
if the ball had touched the ground before it got into the catchers mit it would have been like a wild pitch"?? The swing(strike) would not count since the ball was "dropped" and the catcher would have had to have thrown the batter out???
Is that the essence of waht happened?

 

[Doctor P]

In essence, that is correct. If the ball hit the ground, the batter needed to be tagged or the ball thrown to first to get him out.

 

[Bob Slydell]

Incorrect by who...all the umpires agreed...

Of course they all agreed!! Have you ever, in your life, seen an umpire publicly say that a fellow umpire was wrong on a call.

 

[jellymanoffspring]

In essence, that is correct. If the ball hit the ground, the batter needed to be tagged or the ball thrown to first to get him out.

Thanks Doctor.....

so the problem is that the ump made no verbal call and the one team left the field while the runner took his base??

Wow that has to be one of the strangest plays.......interesting even to a non- baseball fan.......

That is one for the newsreels from now 'til eternity........