Was DVC required to close its resorts?

[Friendlyadvice2]

Prior to any governmental restrictions, TWDC mandated that the DVC resorts close along with the rest of the Disney resorts. DVCM, or any owner for that matter, had absolutely no say in the decision. If DVCM feels they’ve been wronged then they’ll have to deal with that accordingly.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

I repeat:
Just because something is legal does not make it right.

DVC is a luxury, not a necessity. Ethically, I cannot envision any scenario by which we, the members, should expect that hourly cast members, earning $13 per hour, attend to our resort needs and service our rooms during a national pandemic.

The entitlement expressed in many of these posts is egregious.

In Facebook posts on community boards and pleads on the local news, families, with individuals who have been laid off or furloughed, are reporting that they are struggling to claim unemployment benefits in New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Moreover, because many families do not have emergency funds, there is an increasing need for food donations.

To me, it is unfathomable that anyone could be concerned about the reopening of a DVC resort and use of points when families in our communities are confronted with an inability to feed their children and pay for essentials, such as electric, housing, and water.

If the resorts do not open this summer, then I will lose 54 points from my VGF contract. However, I am sincerely grateful to be employed by an organization that has allowed me to work from home. Had I been laid off, instead of posting about timeshare laws that I know nothing about and delineating what DVC owes me because of this pandemic, I would be actively searching for jobs and polishing my resume.

 

[Anal Annie]

Not only would it be unsafe for the CMs working at the resorts for them to remain open but when pretty much the entire country is under "stay at home" orders would it make good financial sense to remain open when in reality you shouldn't even HAVE any guests coming in? If everyone is following these rules there should be no guests. Why WOULD you stay open? It would be a drain on unnecesary utilities and would draw many more people out of their homes than necessary to staff them etc. In return there would be no revenue generated by the guests for food or shopping (well, potentially for a little "take out" food but enough to be worthwhile?) I do wonder how they'll keep up with things like landscaping which is probably being ignored and let go atm.

I have neighbors with a 2nd home at Nags Head and the island closed to everyone who is not full time residents. My neighbors would have loved to have gone down there to ride this out but now they wonder if they'll even be allowed to go at all this summer. But the residents of the island were smart to protect themselves. They don't have the medical facilities to cope with this sort of thing. I have 2 other neighbors who work for large international hotel chains. I know at least one of them closed their properties as well. Disney was smart to close to protect their employees if for no other reason.

The rooms will be collecting dust while they sit empty but do we think they'll have time to go in & dust every room before reopening? If they don't some moron will surely complain about how dusty their room is when they do reopen tho. There will be a lot of work for them to do in order to reopen. Food delivery orders which have been suspended will have to be reinstated to restock kitchens, someone will have to go through all of the food left on site to sort out all of the items which expired while they were closed. They'll have to develop some sort of system to check and monitor the CMs every day before they begin work to be sure the CMs aren't infected to be sure they're not spreading it to guests and other CMs. They'll have to stock up on a huge amount of PPE for the CMs. Is there even enough hand sanitizer left in the world for them to be able to put out enough sanitizer stations? It's going to be a huge undertaking for them. It will take a whole task force!

 

[Spridell]

I don't think anyone disagrees that it was 100% the right thing to do to shutdown DVC. For EVERYONE'S safety.

Now going FORWARD is what I am wondering how things will play out. We now know each state will be different in the coming months, we now know the NATIONAL emergency will NOT be extended when it expires, we now know the GOV of Florida WILL NOT extend the statewide Stay at Home when it expires on April 30th. Will local counties extend the orders?

So if there is no emergency in effect what does DVC do?

We all have different opinions on when it's safe to go back, we know LARGE CROWDS will be one of the last which includes Disney.

These are all questions that will be very interesting to see how it plays out over the coming weeks and months.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

The stories coming out from places with "essential" workforces are horrifying. It's challenging to believe that Disney cast members should be being "magical" for $13/hour during a pandemic.

From the outbreaks in meat packing plants, to cart handlers at Wal-Marts dying, to Amazon warehouse issues and Instacart strikes. I don't see Disney CMs as having a magic shell by which they stay clear, and I absolutely can see guests complaining about limited entertainment, a CM wearing gloves and a mask, no meet and greets, etc. etc.

 

[foreUT]

I’ve posted this a lot so I will summarize. The POS gives them emergency powers to close, once the state of emergency was declared by DeSantis in Florida, This came before the shut down, it didn’t order them to close, but did provide them with something that seems to have applied via contract,

My emails with DVC confirmed that this section, and elements of the Property Management agreement with Disney, which gives them power over the operations of the resort, played a role in making the decision to shut down DVC resorts legal.

Florida EO 20-52 is the State of Emergency Executive Order that you referenced DVC would use to support their closure. Based on the interpretation of "60 days", the SOE ends on May 8 or 9. Considering the Guidelines for a Phase 1 opening, a portion of Florida (at the least) meets those criteria, so doubt there will be another state-wide edict. The next government restrictions that DVC could use will need to come from Orange County, in conjunction w the State, probably.

 

[Spridell]

Florida EO 20-52 is the State of Emergency Executive Order that you referenced DVC would use to support their closure. Based on the interpretation of "60 days", the SOE ends on May 8 or 9. Considering the Guidelines for a Phase 1 opening, a portion of Florida (at the least) meets those criteria, so doubt there will be another state-wide edict. The next government restrictions that DVC could use will need to come from Orange County, in conjunction w the State, probably.

Very possible Orange County could have an order JUST for Disney and DVC allowing them to keep their places closed but that would not effect other local hotels.

 

[crisi]

While shutting down may have been allowed by the contract due to the state of emergency, DVCM also has the responsibility to do what's best for the members. You could argue that by shutting down, they're making things worse for all members in the future, especially when you consider the unborrowing (as I've posted on other threads, I think the long term impact of unborrowing is worse than the short term impact of not allowing unborrowing).

I'm not saying they should have stayed open. I just don't think it's clear if it was in the best interest of DVC members (purely from the points system and booking perspective).

Or you could argue that in staying open, Disney would have been negligent in the case of someone who was infected during a stay and died. Dying is also not in the best interest of members.

 

[DougEMG]

It shouldn't be Disney's job or have to be their decision to determine when resorts should be closed or when they should open because of a state/national emergency. That should be the job of the government. If the government isn't providing clear direction, then that is a failure on the part of the government.

My assumption is that Disney closed because of an order by the state government and they aren't going to open till the state government tells them they are allowed to. I am perfectly happy in that situation.

What I would not be happy about is if the government said it was safe to open and Disney decided to remain keep DVC resorts closed.

 

[Spridell]

Or you could argue that in staying open, Disney would have been negligent in the case of someone who was infected during a stay and died. Dying is also not in the best interest of members.

I want to state from the beginning I am not talking about what's morally right I am talking about the actual legality of this situation....

As we saw in the beginning with some travel insurance policies, viruses were not covered. So I don't know how Disney would of be negligent. It would be like any other person that dies at Disney from an infectious disease.

 

[dismedvc]

It shouldn't be Disney's job or have to be their decision to determine when resorts should be closed or when they should open because of a state/national emergency. That should be the job of the government. If the government isn't providing clear direction, then that is a failure on the part of the government.

My assumption is that Disney closed because of an order by the state government and they aren't going to open till the state government tells them they are allowed to. I am perfectly happy in that situation.

What I would not be happy about is if the government said it was safe to open and Disney decided to remain keep DVC resorts closed.

If your assumption is correct, and Disney did in fact close the resorts because of an order by the state government, it must be some top secret unpublished order. So far everything I have seen is DVC was not required to close the resorts, although I think almost everyone, including myself, think closing the resorts was the correct decision. I agree with your first paragraph, it shouldn't be Disney's job to determine when resorts should be closed or reopened. At least from what has been publicly available, the government isn't providing clear direction.

 

[Sandisw]

If your assumption is correct, and Disney did in fact close the resorts because of an order by the state government, it must be some top secret unpublished order. So far everything I have seen is DVC was not required to close the resorts, although I think almost everyone, including myself, think closing the resorts was the correct decision. I agree with your first paragraph, it shouldn't be Disney's job to determine when resorts should be closed or reopened. At least from what has been publicly available, the government isn't providing clear direction.

As I have shared, the language of the POS, once the state of emergency was declared, allowed DVCM to make the decision based on health and safety reasons,

Were they ordered closed? No. But, did thr government action of the issuing the state of emergency give them the authority to chose to close? Yes.

So, it was up to both DVCM by emergency powers and Disney through the property management agreement to make the decision once they had the legal authority to make that decision,

They chose it was in the best interest of all to close vs. remaining open. Once the government lifts the state of emergency, and if there are no local restrictions put in place, then I do think they have an obligation to to open ASAP, as those restrictions are gone.

 

[Spridell]

As I have shared, the language of the POS, once the state of emergency was declared, allowed DVCM to make the decision based on health and safety reasons,

Were they ordered closed? No. But, did thr government action of the issuing the state of emergency give them the authority to chose to close? Yes.

So, it was up to both DVCM by emergency powers and Disney through the property management agreement to make the decision once they had the legal authority to make that decision,

They chose it was in the best interest of all to close vs. remaining open. Once the government lifts the state of emergency, and if there are no local restrictions put in place, then I do think they have an obligation to to open ASAP, as those restrictions are gone.

Yes. The State of Emergency was key here. Just like with Hurricanes and Disney, when a State of Emergency happens for hurricanes lots of things change including Pets being in allowed in MOST hotels at Disney world to name one thing.

So really going forward we need to see what happens once the State of Emergency is dropped.

 

[Sandisw]

Yes. The State of Emergency was key here. Just like with Hurricanes and Disney, when a State of Emergency happens for hurricanes lots of things change including Pets being in allowed in MOST hotels at Disney world to name one thing.

So really going forward we need to see what happens once the State of Emergency is dropped.

And I will add that the governor opening some beaches, and projections lower than anticipated, that a June 1st opening of the resorts seems much more likely. I do think it would be a really good thing for at least the DVC ones to open to stop the point loss,

I just need him to remove the 14 day quarantine for NY by June 26th when I check in!

 

[Spridell]

And I will add that the governor opening some beaches, and projections lower than anticipated, that a June 1st opening of the resorts seems much more likely. I do think it would be a really good thing for at least the DVC ones to open to stop the point loss,

I just need him to remove the 14 day quarantine for NY by June 26th when I check in!

I agree. I really do think with regards to the DVC properties, social distancing CAN be obtained. There might have to be some modifications with restaurants and buffets and pool areas but it is very possible.

Now, we come to the topic of will people go to DVC if the parks are not open. I see that argument, BUT, just talking DVC here, like you said, the point loss would be stopped with this process. Is it ideal? NO WAY NO HOW. But it is one solution.

and FWIW I did hear at the Florida press conference the other day that one of the options being looked at going forward from people coming to Florida from NY would be NO quarantine but information being taken down just in case.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Having it be just NY is ridiculous. There are outbreaks in Iowa, Georgia, Louisiana. There are no real safe spots, especially when people have to travel between points.

 

[foreUT]

Having it be just NY is ridiculous. There are outbreaks in Iowa, Georgia, Louisiana. There are no real safe spots, especially when people have to travel between points.

Florida has addressed travelers from NY, NJ, CT, LA, and GA as coming from hot-spots requiring quarantine. The 14-day quarantines are in EO 20-80, 20-82, and 20-86. They all expire with the State of Emergency on 5/9, unless extended via another EO.

 

[4evryoung]

It's going to be a huge undertaking for them. It will take a whole task force!

Just flushing all of those toilets in rooms that haven't been used in months and dealing with any air locks in the plumbing will take a task force!

 

[Brian Noble]

My assumption is that Disney closed because of an order by the state government and they aren't going to open till the state government tells them they are allowed to. I am perfectly happy in that situation.

What I would not be happy about is if the government said it was safe to open and Disney decided to remain keep DVC resorts closed.

I wrote this in another thread, but I believe both the Orange County and State of Florida orders classified hotels and related lodging as essential services that were exempt from the order to close. If my interpretation is correct, Disney was not legally required to close the resorts.

I happen to think they were correct in closing them, but my opinion is worth what you've paid for it...

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Why does everybody dance around the fact that Disney closed the resorts because the revenue stream would be gone? My God, people. Follow the money. Peace, love and Donnie and Marie aren't always the answer. Disney couldn't keep the resorts open because they thought they'd lose money. Members' desires be darned. They didn't care, and they found cover in the POS we all signed. At least that's what they're betting on.

#OccamsRazor