warning to fellow Canadians going to Florida

Timon

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This came into effect yesterday!! :earseek:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-shoot2605sep26,0,1520131.story?coll=orl-home-headlines


Gun foes to warn tourists on law
Beginning Saturday, Floridians can use deadly force in self-defense.
Linda Kleindienst
Tallahassee Bureau

September 26, 2005

TALLAHASSEE -- Warning that Florida streets have the potential to morph into the OK Corral, gun-control advocates are preparing to launch an international campaign through newspapers and the Internet to tell travelers about a new state law that allows people to use deadly force in self-defense.

"It's a particular risk faced by travelers coming to Florida for a vacation because they have no idea it's going to be the law of the land," said Peter Hamm, communications director of the Washington, D.C.-based Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "If they get into a road-rage argument, the other person may feel he has the right to use deadly force."

In a flier the group plans to pass out at Miami International Airport and possibly Orlando International Airport, tourists will be admonished to take precautions that include: "Do not argue unnecessarily with local people."

This Saturday, it will become legal to use force on an attacker without first trying to escape the confrontation. The new law seals the existing right of residents to protect their homes by shooting intruders -- known as the "castle doctrine" -- but now also extends that right to public places if people feel threatened with death or bodily harm.

Supporters say the new law, which they dubbed "Stand Your Ground," allows citizens to protect themselves by meeting force with force.

Opponents, who call it the "Shoot First Law," warn it could hand itchy trigger fingers a license to kill.

Championed by the National Rifle Association, the law also makes it legal for someone to use deadly force against anyone who unlawfully or forcefully enters their home or car -- even if they are not being attacked.

Marion Hammer, president of Unified Sportsmen of Florida and a former NRA president, said critics are off-base. Pointing out the castle doctrine dates back to the 1400s, she said the new law codifies the right of people to use any manner of force to protect their home and its inhabitants.

The law was needed, she contends, because Florida prosecutors and courts have imposed a duty to retreat on law-abiding people who are attacked by criminals.

"When they take away your basic rights and freedoms, every once in awhile you have to take it back. No law-abiding citizen should be forced to retreat from an attacker . . . in their homes or any place they have a legal right to be," Hammer said.

"Under existing law you have a duty to try to run and maybe get chased down and beat to death," she added. "Now, if you have a knife, firearm or pepper spray, you can use force to protect yourself."

Willie Meggs, who was president of the Florida Prosecuting Attorneys Association when the Legislature considered the bill this spring, said it solves a problem that doesn't exist.

"We may not have any problems with it and if we don't that's fine," said Meggs, the state attorney for Leon County. "But what I worry about, and I don't know if it will come to fruition, is that people who should be prosecuted will have a defense for using force when they didn't need to."

In signing the bill into law last spring, Gov. Jeb Bush defended the measure, saying it "defies common sense" to force people to retreat when they're in a life-threatening situation.

But the Brady Campaign, established by former presidential spokesman Jim Brady, who was wounded during an assassination attempt on President Reagan, and Brady's wife, Sarah, plans to aggressively advertise on the Internet to warn out-of-state tourists.

Hamm said that as of Wednesday when the phrase "Florida Vacation" is typed onto some search engines, a link to www.shootfirstlaw.org will pop up.

The group is also running ads in the travel sections of the Boston Globe, Detroit Free Press, Chicago Tribune and likely some London newspapers beginning Sunday. They will also be putting up billboards in places where they can be easily seen by tourists and passing out the airport fliers in English and Spanish.

"The biggest myth in Florida is this is about protecting people who use legitimate self-defense," Hamm said. "This law . . . sends a message to people who are potentially unstable and have an itchy trigger finger that as long as they can make a reasonable case they were in fear, they can use deadly force against somebody."

Linda Kleindienst can be reached at lkleindienst@sun-sentinel.com or 850-224-6214.
 
My family from Scotland UK and my family here in Canada always visit each other in Orlando and this is getting a little ridiculous. The guns that are used in both the US and here in Canada are really out of control. My cousin from the UK sent me the following article that was in his local newspaper.......



Fri 30 Sep 2005



Florida tourists warned that locals could shoot them

ALASTAIR JAMIESON

IT IS Britain's most popular transatlantic holiday destination, attracting more than 1.5 million visitors a year with its sun-drenched beaches, theme parks and wildlife.

But Florida's £30 billion tourism industry is under threat from a campaign launched by a gun-control group which warns visitors they could be killed.

A series of alarming adverts, to be placed in British newspapers, warns potential tourists about a new law allowing gun owners to shoot anyone they believe threatens their safety.

It means thousands of British families who travel to the Sunshine State are now caught up in the ongoing political row over gun control in the United States.

The Florida law, supported by the National Rifle Association, was approved by the state legislature in April.

The state's governor, Jeb Bush - whose brother is the US president - described it as a "good, commonsense, anti-crime issue".

Critics call it the "shoot first" law and say it allows gun owners to shoot if they engage in a simple argument in public. Supporters call it the "stand your ground" law and say criminals will think twice before attacking someone.

Previously, gun owners could only use their weapons if they first attempted to withdraw and avoid a confrontation, and were permitted to shoot threatening individuals only inside their home or property.

Now they can use "deadly force" if they "reasonably believe" that firing their gun is necessary to prevent a crime or serious injury. The law also effectively prevents civil legal action by victims of such shootings.

The Brady Campaign to Control Gun Violence, based in Washington DC, has pledged to "educate" tourists by placing adverts in US cities, and in key overseas markets such as Britain.

"Warning: Florida residents can use deadly force," says one of the adverts. Another reads: "Thinking about a Florida vacation? Please ensure your family is safe. In Florida, avoid disputes. Use special caution in arguing with motorists on Florida roads."

The Brady Campaign - named after Jim Brady, the spokesman for Ronald Reagan who was paralysed by a gunshot during the 1981 assassination attempt on the then-president - promises to also run adverts in French, German and Japanese newspapers. The campaign officers also plan to hand out leaflets on roads leading into the state.

Peter Hamm, the communications director of the Brady Campaign, said: "It's a particular risk faced by travellers coming to Florida for a vacation because they have no idea it's going to be the law of the land. If they get into a road rage argument, the other person may feel he has the right to use deadly force."

Tourism officials in Florida are furious at the move. Bud Nocera, the executive director of Visit Florida, said: "It is sad that such an organisation would hold the 900,000 men and women who work in the Florida tourism industry, and whose lives depend on it, hostage to their political agenda."

The Association of British Travel Agents yesterday said the posters were "a matter of concern", but said there was unlikely to be a drop in the number of visitors to Florida.

It said 1.4 million Britons made the journey last year, attracted by the weather and resorts such as Disneyworld and the Kennedy Space Centre.

A spokeswoman said: "We would offer the same advice about Florida as we would any other part of the United States. As far as we are concerned, nothing has changed."

More than 80 million tourists from around the world visited Florida last year, boosting an industry that accounts for one-fifth of the state economy.
:guilty:
 
...Maybe the "warning" to Canadians should be "don't plan on attacking the locals while in Florida!"
 
This law should be the other way around. Anyone remember Mark Fyke, the Canadian teen who was killed in March 1996 in Daytona? He was using a pay phone to call his Mom in Belleville, Ontario with a friend across from the Thunderbird Inn and were accosted by FLORIDA LOCALS and shot to death in the head.

Something tells me there will be many more headlines such as that.

Too tragic. Too senseless.
 

tone.def said:
This law should be the other way around. Anyone remember Mark Fyke, the Canadian teen who was killed in March 1996 in Daytona? He was using a pay phone to call his Mom in Belleville, Ontario with a friend across from the Thunderbird Inn and were accosted by FLORIDA LOCALS and shot to death in the head.

Something tells me there will be many more headlines such as that.

Too tragic. Too senseless.

I thought of the exact same case when I first read this ... didn't realize that it was THAT many years ago.


MaryLiz
 
Hi: That is frightening. Not that we would do anything wrong to anyone, but for the many gang members that would not think twice about shooting a person that accidently cuts them off or whatever.

Deb.
 
This really isn't going to affect us much. Not unless you plan on attacking florida residents or anyone else for that matter while you are on vacation. Personally, I tend not to anger alot of people when I am in the U.S.A. anyways because you never know who has a gun or a weapon and is willing to use it. Remember that in florida it is legal to buy brassknuckles, stun guns, butterfly knives, fake badges, lockpicking sets, etc. just check out the U Spy Store on international drive if you don't believe me. I have been in there manytimes. Quite a different society they have down there. You should always take security seriously when in a foreign country. Even the USA. Here is a stat to consider from the New York City police dept. One in four motorists has a gun in their car. Want to argue with one of those guys in traffic? So lesson here is DON'T MESS WITH MICKEY, he may shoot you....... :rotfl:

Rob (Snowwhite's DH)
 
Wow! That's really scary. So does that mean anytime someone uses a gun, they're going to claim "self-defence"?

tone.def said:
This law should be the other way around. Anyone remember Mark Fyke, the Canadian teen who was killed in March 1996 in Daytona? He was using a pay phone to call his Mom in Belleville, Ontario with a friend across from the Thunderbird Inn and were accosted by FLORIDA LOCALS and shot to death in the head.

Something tells me there will be many more headlines such as that.

Too tragic. Too senseless.

I remember that case... everytime I go to WDW, my mom reminds me of that as if it just happened :rolleyes: Weren't there also a couple other incidents involving tourists, I think it had something to do with their rental cars and the license plates. I remember all of those incidents combined had an impact on tourism. I wonder what's going to happen this time after a couple "self-defence" claims.
 
jersey shark said:
...Maybe the "warning" to Canadians should be "don't plan on attacking the locals while in Florida!"

Aww, Jersey! You take all the fun out of a Florida vacation. :rotfl:
 
maryliz said:
I thought of the exact same case when I first read this ... didn't realize that it was THAT many years ago.


MaryLiz

I know - time flies! It's going to be 10 years this coming March and I still remember him like it was last week... He did a mean Michael Jackson dance impression.

I actually didn't step foot into the US until 2004 because of that - I was scared!

While I highly doubt that anyone going to Walt Disney World will encounter any similar problems, I personally have ZERO deisre to see what the rest of the state offers. Off the plane, take me to Disney, leave Disney, go directly to the airport, period.
 
tone.def said:
While I highly doubt that anyone going to Walt Disney World will encounter any similar problems, I personally have ZERO deisre to see what the rest of the state offers. Off the plane, take me to Disney, leave Disney, go directly to the airport, period.

The rest of Florida actually has quite a bit to offer - St. Augustine is one place that comes to mind, and I've visited Talahassee a number of times. With respect to the recent law, I think this is another example of not having the complete picture (which I don't claim to possess). My grandparents lived in a remote area, near Talahassee for many years. Unbeknownst (sp?) to us, my grandfather had a permit to carry a concealed weapon! I don't think that the average Floridian is allowed to be "packin' heat" just for the sake of carrying a gun. I could be wrong - it would've been nice if the article addressed who could legally carry a weapon in FLA. Having said that, this new law seems to make the issue moot (i.e. How can I be allowed to fire first in self-defense, if I'm not allowed to carry a gun?).

Full disclosure: I'm a big fan of the US (Wow... this just in!). I unabashedly love the country, their constitution, their confidence. Where I absolutely disagree? Guns. I think they are just dead wrong (no pun) on guns. I hold the Liberals in absolute contempt, but I support the gun registry (I hope its the slippery slope gun activists claim it to be). Get rid of them all and I would be quite happy.
 
DisFan2 said:
The rest of Florida actually has quite a bit to offer - St. Augustine is one place that comes to mind

Let me put in my plug for St. Augustine as well. That place totally rocks! :cheer2:
 
Good to know, but I wouldn't worry about it and I doubt if it will change anything except in the area's of high crime.

When we lived in Atlanta, I was shocked and nervous to find out almost all of our neighbours had guns in their homes. They don't talk openly about it, but if asked they do. They want to protect their homes and families by the means in which they were allowed to under the constitution. However, I never heard an instance in our area where a gun had to be used.
After living there awhile, I never really thought about it. I did discuss it with my kids and what to do if they were ever shown the guns. They never were nor were they mentioned.

As other posters said, a good majority of people in the US own guns, so yes the chance of encountering them are greater. This has always been the case (as an aside - look at parts of Toronto this summer!)

However, I don't think this new law in Florida will have any impact on tourism unless you, as Jersey Shark said, ""...plan on attacking locals..." ;)

As far as the tragedy of the teen from Belleville, I don't think this new law will escalate the shooting and violence toward innocent people.

Go to Florida and have a great time. Just use common sence, like we should anytime we travel away from home.
 
It was very interesting to read this thread. As a newbie, I accedentaly talked about it on the community board, where there is quite a diffrent point of view then the one here. It's cool to hear the views of other Canadians on the law and your feelings about it.
 
We're not the only ones with nutcases.

I'll never forget the story of the blonde Canadian woman and her husband who killed the woman's sister and a number of other women. That is one of the scariest true stories I have ever heard! :earseek:
 
Please don't remind me of that evil b@#$!. I can't believe she's out on parole. People like that make me wish we had the death penalty. Even if she was afraid of her husband(she was a full partner IMO) there is no way she should have chosen her life over her sisters. I would risk my life anyday for my little sister.

Umm back to the gun control. I think all guns should be test fired, databased, and have serial numbers secreted within the gun somewhere. I think this law is just asking for trouble. Raod Rage is already a problem and now this. You know what I think it all comes down to a sense of entitlement. Too many people these days seem to feel that they deserve more then they have. How many times have you heard somebody say I don't deserve this or I deserve better. Sometimes I'd just like to sit them down and ask them why you? Frankly I'm grateful to have a job that pays the bills, a family that loves me and my good health. All the goodies I can get with time or do without. All anybody deserves is to be treated with respect. Don't even get me started on the lack of manners in our society today. Seems that people reserve their good behavour for special occasions.
 
Hi: Karla Homolka, was her name. I live about 40 minutes from where the house was that they killed those poor victims. That was a horrible time around here. I was afraid for my teen daughter to go anywhere alone.

She only received 12 years because of a deal to put paul behind bars, and she just got out in july. She is living in montreal now, but i bet she does it again with someone elses help.

That was the only woman that I can think of who did terrible crimes.

Deb.
 
Hello,
I just read the original article and I think it may have been taken out of context. I can't see Floridians going around shooting each other because of road rage.

The law seems to be more on the lines of if you are "in fear for your life" you have a right to defend yourself ....and shooting a gun would be your defense. Of course you have to prove probable cause. You cannot just shoot people because you are slightly threatened. This law protects many victims who shoot their attacker....ie rape, vandalizing your house.....

I'm from Pennsylvania and we have the right to carry guns...only after a complete background check and approval of a right to carry permit. Also, the cartridge cannot be in the gun, nor a bullet in the chamber. If you are convicted of any crime, you lose your right to carry and your guns will be confiscated.

I don't know...I don't think the Floridians are going crazy and start shooting tourists.
 
Hi:

I wonder what will happen if a person from florida has some sort of car trouble and most people are willing to assist someone in need.

They may perceive they are being threatened by someone walking up to their car to assist them and shoot before asking.

Deb.
 














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