WARNING about esta/visas MENTAL DISABILITES

[mandylou6]

my AUTISTIC 11 year old son has ben unauthorised to travel on est visa waiver scheme we are in the process of applying for a visa can take weeks we go on holiday in April.
If your child has behaviour problems associated with a disability etc they need a visa read info about esta and do it in plenty of time aslo cost

visa $140

courier service £25.00

esta denial $4.oo

phone number to get info and pay £1.20 PER MINUTE!!!!!.

FINGERS CROSSED WE GET A VISA FOR HIM OR IVE JUST SPENT YEARS SAVING FOR A HOLIDAY WITH NO REFUND

if any of you have gone through this please let me know because im really angry about it

 

[bookwormde]

If you can PM me a link to the info I will "investigate" this discrimination.

bookwormde

 

[Disneyadore]

If you can PM me a link to the info I will "investigate" this discrimination.

bookwormde

This is probably a case of being afraid for medical costs from the US government.
I think the OP is from outside the US? and it is very difficult to get a visa for a person with a medical problem.
I'm sorry but I can't put this a nicer way.

We had a similar case in my country. The parents of a young boy, almost beaten to dead by other children, wanted to come to the US to get a special treatment. Money was no problem because in our country we raised more than enough money for him. Hospital,flight,hotel,food cost,car,everything was payed for.
Well actually he could not fly,it was to dangerous so he came by ship.

The only problem was the visa. It was denied. After months and months of walking into a brick wall the mother finally came on television and asked our prime ministers of health and foreign affairs to help her and get in touch with the US embassy.
After that it took a few days and the visa was permitted.

The boy is now in Florida to get treatment.

http://www.help-jelte.nl/scheeps.html

http://www.help-jelte.nl/therapie-foto.html

http://www.help-jelte.nl/fotoalbum.html

I'm afraid the OP is facing a hard struggle. OP hoping you get your problems solved soon.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

Sounds like OP misread the questions asked on the VWP, before being able to retain an ESTA, subsequently answered one of them with "yes". That should automatically trigger the system to deny and thus having to go through the rougher route.

I'm so confident, I'm going to say it's about 95% sure this is what happened: OP came to the questions and for question A answered with "Yes". This question is directed in asking health questions, including mental health. Others have done the same thing, although thinking they filled it out correctly it is not. When applying for entry into another country one has the duty to read all of the info before jumping the gun and then blame others for things going wrong. When one clicks on the "explain" pop ups readily available when going through the VWP ESTA-process it will offer more info about what the US gouvernment actually wants to know. They will literally state an individual can answer "no" to the question when they do have all kinds off illnesses, disabilities and what not, as long as you are of no risk to the US public. Being on the autism spectrum is one of the many, many, many things that fall under the "we do not mean this, therefor you can answer no" standard.

I'm too lazy at this hour of day to go through the process fakely to get the questions in english (always make copies of my own ESTA, but doubt the questions being in Dutch will do most on this board any good ) but I can see no other possible cause of any denied entry and anybody going "we got discriminated against, they're forcing us to get visa based on a disability".

Before I get my head ripped off again -boy, you do not want to know how many folks have taken this road of answering "yes" without reading what US gouvernment means-; yes, I know fully well what I'm talking about. I ESTA for each trip and deal with my own range of disabilities and extra hoops I need to jump through in order to legally enter the US with my meds etc. While the US might not have worded their questions the easiest easiest ways, they sure don't make it that impossible to be able to understand what they'ld mean with those questions. There have been countries known to make you jump through alot more hoops before being able to get a visawaiver.

Getting a US visa on the other hand? Let's not get me started on that subject. Now that is a nasty bureaucracy crazed time consuming madhouse before you know it.

This will no longer help OP's son as he's now officially has been denied to travel under the VWP and can be confronted with that for live. So those that do read on here and haven't gotten their ESTA's sorted out yet; please learn from others. Do not ever assume you know what a question means; read the added info supplied in pop ups before you answer. If not sure; ask first before going forward. One "denied" is all it takes to get yourself in a not so easy situation. Rule of thumb; as soon as you answer any of the questions asked with a "yes" your entry under VWP will be denied, no ESTA. You will need to apply for a VISA first and from what I've seen; good luck getting that one after answering a "yes" that is a valid yes. Heck, I've seen anything from a quick smooth over upto big messes when dealing with the mess that results from misreading a question and wrongly answering yes.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

This is probably a case of being afraid for medical costs from the US government.
I think the OP is from outside the US? and it is very difficult to get a visa for a person with a medical problem.
I'm sorry but I can't put this a nicer way.

We had a similar case in my country. The parents of a young boy, almost beaten to dead by other children, wanted to come to the US to get a special treatment. Money was no problem because in our country we raised more than enough money for him. Hospital,flight,hotel,food cost,car,everything was payed for.
Well actually he could not fly,it was to dangerous so he came by ship.

The only problem was the visa. It was denied. After months and months of walking into a brick wall the mother finally came on television and asked our prime ministers of health and foreign affairs to help her and get in touch with the US embassy.
After that it took a few days and the visa was permitted.

The boy is now in Florida to get treatment.

http://www.help-jelte.nl/scheeps.html

http://www.help-jelte.nl/therapie-foto.html

http://www.help-jelte.nl/fotoalbum.html

I'm afraid the OP is facing a hard struggle. OP hoping you get your problems solved soon.

Let's not mix and match stories where they do not fit. The Jelte story is one that is totally different. Jeltes family wants to stay in the US for a longer time than is allowed under the ESTA. And thus Jelte and family had to apply for a standard VISA. Total different ballgame; a VISA apply or VWP for ESTA.

Next comes the reason for travel; tourist (in this case) versus seeking medical treatment. Again totally different animals when it comes to this subject. Not just for the US, but for most countries actually.

Another thing is the known course it takes before being able to get a US VISA. Anybody that knows the procedures and has seen the "outcry" of this family could see within seconds that the family made mistakes themselves in the process and were expecting unrealistic responses from US gouvernment. And then there are many many more factors in this specific story that make it a totally wrong situation to use if you'ld want to plee your case that US gouvernment isn't "keen" on allowing entry to the US for those with any medical or health problems. It could be a poster child for taking own responsibility when wanting to travel anywhere and knowing how the procedure works, but that's something else.


Apart from all of that, the US is not what you paint it to be. Not at all, esp. since the Obama registration finally tackled the "denied entry when infected with HIV". They very much welcome each and everyone of us that has health-issues and/or a disability, depending on the normal factors like reason for travel, duration of stay etc. etc. As long as an individual is no risk to the US or it's residents and fits all the other requirements for it, they'll happily hand out an ESTA. A lot can be said about the US and their immigration policy, but they're not the "we're out to get you if you're not in perfect health" bully at all. That, or they're asleep on the job while allowing entrance to millions of us that have no picture perfect health. Just for the "fun" of it; have you recently checked out our own national immigratiewetgeving? Honestly, case of a black pot calling a white cattle black.

 

[mandylou6]

We did ponder the questions very carefully and were told if self harm was involved at any point or damage to property you should answer yes to the question. Also another lady on another forum went through the same she actually rang the embassy for advice first about her child she was told that she would need to apply for a visa for her severy autistic daughter and they wanted to know all her medicenes and a current behaviour report. They also told her anyone who lied on esta were doing it illegally and could be prosecuted.

Youve been warned! lie at your own peril im from the uk.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

lie at your own peril

OK, you've officially got me confused. Where on this topic did anybody even suggest to lie? As far as I know, nobody has even implied anything alike.


As far as selfharm goes, it again all comes down to them looking for any possible risk of danger to the US or it's residents. On the form itself -or better said; the further explaining, when using the ?-button- they make it rather clear one can answer with "no" as long as they know such risk does not excist. Which is nothing more or less than telling the truth, US gov. is only looking for anybody that could pose a possible risk, in whatever way. When using a "yes"-answer, it basically reads as a "yes, I am a possible risk to the US and/or it's residents". Which will obviously instantly have a red light go off, result into denial and having to go through a more thourough procedure.


Or to paint it a bit more black and white; "damage to property" is a very wide range. If you drop a glass tomorrow because you just missed the countertop; bingbing! "Damage to property". I'm going out on a limb here and assume anybody can understand the US immigration couldn't care less about such an incident and would not be looking for that when asking the very broad question as stated in part A. Now on the other hand, if a person has a history of violent outbursts, is known not to be able to control themselves and has done serious damage to public property and/or others? Easy to see how an Immigration devision might want to look into that further before being able to determine if there might be any risk involved.

Those situations are pretty white and black and as always there are many more shades of grey. US Immigration makes it pretty clear on the forms that they aren't looking for the whites or white-greys. They make it clear that if one fits those, they can legally answer with a "no". Unlike the grey-blacks and blacks. That is what interests them, that is what should trigger a "yes" and will trigger more work.

Obviously I am not familiar with the situation of your child and how much risk could be involved. Having said that, many many individuals with autism or alike disorders travel to the US on ESTA, either solo or with a carer, loved one etc. In most of those situations there is no problem what so ever to travel on an ESTA, based on filling out the forms in an honest way. They simply do not fit what is considered a risk, even with selfharming behaviour to some extend.

As said, I know the pitfalls and headaches that come with dealing with VISA-application after putting a "yes" on the ESTA, for whatever reason. Not something I'ld ever advice even my worst enemy. I've seen people decide it is not worth it and can understand. Heck, I've seen a very seasoned individual when it comes to dealing with VISA, immigration and very strict rules for said, crumble and go "it's easier to just walk over water".

Right now it is as it is. Only you can judge the extent of the harmfull behaviour of your child and if it was correct to answer with "yes". And by now that doesn't matter anymore. It is as it is. If you answered the question with "yes" correctly, you might want to consider dropping the whole thing right now. Loosing money is one thing, but have you considered the consequences of being denied the VISA? With one denial, it's a cr*pshot they'll ever allow entry into the US at any later time of your or childs liking (whether it being for vacation, treatment, family visits, whatever). Even if it is after decades. Denial has to be reported and will trigger this procedure again. In some cases it can even come back to haunt when trying to gain access to a few other corners around the world outside of the US.

I know it doesn't sound fair, but in such a specific situation it could be wiser to withdrawel right now. Take your losses, see if you can use the funds for something else or what can be solvaged from it. Some time from now, try again if the child poses no risk to the US or it's residents and you know you can legally answer the question with "no". This ESTA-denial is annoying, but it will not haunt the child for live. A VISA-denial can.

 

[Disneyadore]

Let's not mix and match stories where they do not fit. The Jelte story is one that is totally different. Jeltes family wants to stay in the US for a longer time than is allowed under the ESTA. And thus Jelte and family had to apply for a standard VISA. Total different ballgame; a VISA apply or VWP for ESTA.

Next comes the reason for travel; tourist (in this case) versus seeking medical treatment. Again totally different animals when it comes to this subject. Not just for the US, but for most countries actually.

Another thing is the known course it takes before being able to get a US VISA. Anybody that knows the procedures and has seen the "outcry" of this family could see within seconds that the family made mistakes themselves in the process and were expecting unrealistic responses from US gouvernment. And then there are many many more factors in this specific story that make it a totally wrong situation to use if you'ld want to plee your case that US gouvernment isn't "keen" on allowing entry to the US for those with any medical or health problems. It could be a poster child for taking own responsibility when wanting to travel anywhere and knowing how the procedure works, but that's something else.


Apart from all of that, the US is not what you paint it to be. Not at all, esp. since the Obama registration finally tackled the "denied entry when infected with HIV". They very much welcome each and everyone of us that has health-issues and/or a disability, depending on the normal factors like reason for travel, duration of stay etc. etc. As long as an individual is no risk to the US or it's residents and fits all the other requirements for it, they'll happily hand out an ESTA. A lot can be said about the US and their immigration policy, but they're not the "we're out to get you if you're not in perfect health" bully at all. That, or they're asleep on the job while allowing entrance to millions of us that have no picture perfect health. Just for the "fun" of it; have you recently checked out our own national immigratiewetgeving? Honestly, case of a black pot calling a white cattle black.

I never painted the US black,just gave a realistic example of what is reality.
There is NO way you can even compare the immigrations laws. In our country you just have to get on a plane,throw your papers and passport in the plane toilet,get of the plane,should "asylum and I "deserve"a lawyer and you are in for a life time of free money,no working and living off tax payers money with a free house, flat screen,money,mobile phones.car,child care and even payed vacations to the country you had to "escape because they tried to kill you".

It's purely a matter of money,and trying to keep the American tax payers free from working and paying billions for people that just come to the country only to get free health care. Can you justify the fact that we in our country have to pay for almost every one that comes to our country stating he or she needs asylum and the only reason they come is to get a free trans gender operation? Can you justify the fact that non paying foreigners WITHOUT legal papers get treatment for almost everything while people that work more than fifty years and payed into the system like my mother in law,just have to die because she was "to old"? read to expensive and uneconomical.( 70 years) Yes we even invented a title for them. The uneconomical. That is were the "Obama health care " is heading to.
And yes I looked into and experienced the immigration law in our country. The outcome was very very sad. people that actually paid for health care were denied aces to life saving treatments while non paying foreigners got the same treatment for free.

In a few years people like Sue and her child or DLCFUN will be forced to pay for everything themselves or just stay at home. They will just have to fight the rules,needs and rights for every inch, even if they have "public" health care. And than,even if they get there rights,they will just fall out out the boat because there is no money left. "Try again next year".

That is realty in our country. We,as a country, see it and live it every day. 25% /35% of our health budget care goes to non payers in the system and that is after the reform system. The same system the US is heading to.
I can ask myself is this fair? Maybe not to me,as also being "damaged goods" but is it fair to the American taxpayers?
I have to admit it is.
Wow I even wish we had the same immigration law here.



Sorry Mandylou but you are just "paying" for a terrible bill called abuse. I know it is so unfair.
Again hoping you get your visa very soon

For the Mods. This in not a political judgment, just telling the truth what is the future for disabled persons and there rights.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

Come on, what was the purpose again of posting that on this topic? It helps anybody dealing with this subject in which way, again? You call it "just telling the truth", where in fact it's just venting your own opinion. All nice and peachy, when in a political topic. This isn't.

Fact is that OP now has to deal with what is. Just mho but they obviously are more benfitted by any correct information of their options at this moment and possible outcomes or consequences.

For those reading the thread now or later on, it can be very beneficial to read this thread and realizing the questions asked on the ESTA forms have a "direction" behind them. That they come with more clarification and reading that before answering is vital.

Heck, even just knowing that answering any question with "yes" and hit the send-button can result into more than one bargained for can be very benificial to all to know beforehand.

 

[livndisney]

I never painted the US black,just gave a realistic example of what is reality.
There is NO way you can even compare the immigrations laws. In our country you just have to get on a plane,throw your papers and passport in the plane toilet,get of the plane,should "asylum and I "deserve"a lawyer and you are in for a life time of free money,no working and living off tax payers money with a free house, flat screen,money,mobile phones.car,child care and even payed vacations to the country you had to "escape because they tried to kill you".

It's purely a matter of money,and trying to keep the American tax payers free from working and paying billions for people that just come to the country only to get free health care. Can you justify the fact that we in our country have to pay for almost every one that comes to our country stating he or she needs asylum and the only reason they come is to get a free trans gender operation? Can you justify the fact that non paying foreigners WITHOUT legal papers get treatment for almost everything while people that work more than fifty years and payed into the system like my mother in law,just have to die because she was "to old"? read to expensive and uneconomical.( 70 years) Yes we even invented a title for them. The uneconomical. That is were the "Obama health care " is heading to.
And yes I looked into and experienced the immigration law in our country. The outcome was very very sad. people that actually paid for health care were denied aces to life saving treatments while non paying foreigners got the same treatment for free.

In a few years people like Sue and her child or DLCFUN will be forced to pay for everything themselves or just stay at home. They will just have to fight the rules,needs and rights for every inch, even if they have "public" health care. And than,even if they get there rights,they will just fall out out the boat because there is no money left. "Try again next year".

That is realty in our country. We,as a country, see it and live it every day. 25% /35% of our health budget care goes to non payers in the system and that is after the reform system. The same system the US is heading to.
I can ask myself is this fair? Maybe not to me,as also being "damaged goods" but is it fair to the American taxpayers?
I have to admit it is.
Wow I even wish we had the same immigration law here.



Sorry Mandylou but you are just "paying" for a terrible bill called abuse. I know it is so unfair.
Again hoping you get your visa very soon

For the Mods. This in not a political judgment, just telling the truth what is the future for disabled persons and there rights.

I did not post yesterday when I first saw this thread, but this is really too much.

I'm sorry but I fail to see how this is "abuse" by the US. If you answer yes to a question about someone being a "threat", why would you be surprised by a denial? (I don't know that is what triggered the issue-but I am familar with INS forms)

That being said everyday people with autism enter the US legally, several post on this very board. SO clearly this is not a discrimination issue. Disabled people are welcome in the US.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

(I don't know that is what triggered the issue-but I am familar with INS forms)

Esp. after the second post of OP, it must be the very first question (A) regarding any healthisseus that pose a possible thread that was filled out with a "yes" and thus automatically resulted into a denial.

 

[Disneyadore]

I did not post yesterday when I first saw this thread, but this is really too much.


If the OP just had filled in no there wouldn't be a cloud on the sky.So obviously the answer for all this trouble is in the first question for the good readers.

 

[livndisney]

I never used the word discrimination.
Just stating the US is protecting there tax payers and try to weed out those that could cost millions by 'just' visiting and then trying to get "free" health care.
After all our reforms the ones that are paying the bill are the most vulnerable in our society. Disabled persons will pay the end bill ,just wait and see.
And just for you information the "bosses of your great insurance companies" have visited our country to see how they can save on the costs.
Are you really looking forward that your parents have to sit on a filthy diaper all day"? One diaper a day is the norm in our country for disabled and elderly people.
Tell me are you prepared to pay 20 dollars per walk? A walk for an disabled or elderly person will cost 20 dollars each day.
That is how deep we sunk after the reform.

What are earth are you talking about and how does it apply to this thread?

From what I gather from the OP entry to this country was denied. We don't know the reason, but suspect it has to do with the answers given to questions about behavior. What country is going to accept with open arms someone who will do harm?

As far as the discrimation comment, you did not say it, it was implied and posted by a pp.

 

[Disneyadore]

What are earth are you talking about and how does it apply to this thread?

From what I gather from the OP entry to this country was denied. We don't know the reason, but suspect it has to do with the answers given to questions about behavior. What country is going to accept with open arms someone who will do harm?

As far as the discrimation comment, you did not say it, it was implied and posted by a pp.

As you see I corrected my post and we will talk again in a few years.

 

[livndisney]

As you see I corrected my post and we will talk again in a few years.

Somehow I doubt that.


Just to clarify, the US does accept and welcome people with disabilities. I suspect the issue came from the answers given. As such, the questions should be answered truthfully as posted by the op.

 

[mandylou6]

ive never read such crap ,all i was tying to do was tell people my experience it asks you to answer have you ever caused any damage or harm to your self or anyone else ?
if your had chIld harmed how would you answer?

needless to say i have a new written report from my sons behaviour specialst and his school to prove that although this is true it happened over 18 months ago and my child is no threat to himself or others at the moment.If the forms were easier to answer and not a big grey area people would know what to say and not worry about giving the wrong answer!

needless to say i will let you know how i get on it quite clearly says on esta page if YOU MAKE A FALSE STATEMENT YOU COULD PERMANENTLY BE DENIED ENTRY.
i have also been on a site for disabled travellers rights and it also says on there about possible visa access. i thought this was supposed to be a site to offer support and helpfull advice to other disabled travlellers coming to disney?

 

[livndisney]

ive never read such crap ,all i was tying to do was tell people my experience it asks you to answer have you ever caused any damage or harm to your self or anyone else ?
if your had chIld harmed how would you answer?

needless to say i have a new written report from my sons behaviour specialst and his school to prove that although this is true it happened over 18 months ago and my child is no threat to himself or others at the moment.If the forms were easier to answer and not a big grey area people would know what to say and not worry about giving the wrong answer!

needless to say i will let you know how i get on it quite clearly says on esta page if YOU MAKE A FALSE STATEMENT YOU COULD PERMANENTLY BE DENIED ENTRY.
i have also been on a site for disabled travellers rights and it also says on there about possible visa access. i thought this was supposed to be a site to offer support and helpfull advice to other disabled travlellers coming to disney?

This is a thread to help people with disabilities. I am not sure what help you feel has not been given.

I don't think anyone suggested you lie on the form, so I don't think I understand.

 

[kaytieeldr]

i thought this was supposed to be a site to offer support and helpfull advice to other disabled travlellers coming to disney?

It actually is (especially if you ignore the off-topic discussion about U.S. healthcare ).

Although it's after the fact, you - well, others after you - seem to have gotten some pretty good advice from goofieslonglostsis on exactly what the ESTA form is asking, and how persons on the autism spectrum are generally exempt, i.e. able to answer "no" to that first question.

Yes, you can't lie - but it sounds as if the form is concerned with people who are likely to do harm to themselves or others, probably intentionally; not with people like the OP's child.

 

[clanmcculloch]

When it comes to immigration forms, it's ALWAYS very important to fully understand what you're filling out as well as the possible consequences to the answers. Waiver programs are not for everybody. Here's what I understood PPs as trying to explain.

1. Frequently people who think that they are supposed to answer yes to questions like these are not fully understanding what's really being asked and therefore incorrectly answer yes to such questions when they really could honestly answer no. It's very important to REALLY go through the detailed explaination of what's being asked and to confirm this understanding with INS.

2. If yes really is the honest answer then it's actually best to NOT apply for the waiver program but rather go through the full lengthy immigration process even for just a visitor visa in order to avoid possible future immigration complications which can unfortunately go on for years when answering yes on this type of form.

This was intended to be very helpful and for many I'm sure it will be. It's unfortunately that you didn't get this information until after you had already submitted your form.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

2. If yes really is the honest answer then it's actually best to NOT apply for the waiver program but rather go through the full lengthy immigration process even for just a visitor visa in order to avoid possible future immigration complications which can unfortunately go on for years when answering yes on this type of form.

Almost. A denial after trying to apply for travel with ESTA does not influence future trips, as far as I'm aware of. A denied or revoked VISA on the other hand, can and most likely will be a problem. Which is one of the reasons they actually ask on the forms if one has ever had a US-VISA denied or revoked. As such, it's not such a big mess if an ESTA gets denied, but a VISA denial can result into a huge mess, which can come back to haunt even decades later.

This was intended to be very helpful and for many I'm sure it will be. It's unfortunately that you didn't get this information until after you had already submitted your form.

It could be such a case, I've seen too many of them already. On the other hand, it can also be a case of this being a valid answer of "yes". We don't know the child, nor the behaviour of child. Either way it's a real shame this info was not available and/or searched for by OP before knowing what procedure they might've gotten themselves involved in. Not fingerpointing OP at all, any and all persons that want to travel should do themselves the 'favour' of finding out what they'ld have to do to get travel-authorization and are allowed into desired country, evaluate if it's doable and only book until it's certain they will be allowed travel to and entry into the country.

All I can say is that from both personal experience and way too many other stories it pays off to do that bit of homework. It can, has and will continue to make or break possible trips for people. Hopefully this thread can be a real mental sticky note for all that read it which will pop up again if they ever consider travelling abroad. If it can make the difference for just even one trip;