Want to buy Boulder Ridge but concerned about short contract

[dolewhipdreams]

Hey everyone. I've been creeping the DVC forum for a while now, trying to wrap my head around DVC. I've just about convinced my DH that it's a good choice for us and I'll be taking a tour later this month at SSR.

Here's my issue- based on a lot of factors, we think Boulder Ridge is the resort for us (theme, MK location, price point, etc). However since it was one of the first DVC resorts, there are much (many?) fewer years left on the contracts. We're in our mid-20s now and looking to purchase in the next year or two so Lord willing we'll have several years after the contract expiration to still enjoy WDW vacations.

I know that Disney could always extend the contracts - like they did with OKW - but they might not.

Does the short contract mean that buying BRV has less value since we'll most likely have to buy at a second resort at some point? Should we find a different resort with a later contract expiration?

I'm very new at this and not a financial person at all so any insight or advice you gurus out there can give would be very much appreciated.

 

[JETSDAD]

We chose to not buy BRV due to the shorter contract but others don't have an issue with it (and we also really like AKV). If that's where you want to stay and CCV is out of your price range then that's going to be what makes you happy. Spending a lot of money to stay at places that you don't like is a bigger waste of money than buying something you like with a shorter contract.

 

[chalee94]

I know that Disney could always extend the contracts - like they did with OKW - but they might not.

Does the short contract mean that buying BRV has less value since we'll most likely have to buy at a second resort at some point? Should we find a different resort with a later contract expiration?

OKW was extended but that was at a high cost which most of us had no interest in paying.

If you want to stay at BRV during the fall, you probably need to own there.

If you are happy just to be onsite, then SSR is a great value. But if you spend the trip disappointed that you're not at BRV, that seriously crimps SSR's relative value.

If you prefer to travel during the summer, maybe owning SSR to trade for BRV can work. If you are happy staying at SSR and visiting WL for a meal or 2 during a trip, maybe SSR is fine.

But if you really want to stay at BRV while the Christmas decorations are up, you will most likely have to pony up to buy in there.

 

[Drewferin]

How much did / does Disney want to extend a OKW contract per point?

 

[bobbiwoz]

Why not CC? Same location, longer contract, plus GVs and cabins.

 

[chalee94]

How much did / does Disney want to extend a OKW contract per point?

$25 per pt (discounted to $15 for a short time) for an extra 15 years - this was over 10 years ago so I'd expect at least $40-50 per pt or more now if Disney were to try again. But OKW was such a disaster, I don't expect that they would.

 

[dolewhipdreams]

OKW was extended but that was at a high cost which most of us had no interest in paying.

If you want to stay at BRV during the fall, you probably need to own there.

If you are happy just to be onsite, then SSR is a great value. But if you spend the trip disappointed that you're not at BRV, that seriously crimps SSR's relative value.

If you prefer to travel during the summer, maybe owning SSR to trade for BRV can work. If you are happy staying at SSR and visiting WL for a meal or 2 during a trip, maybe SSR is fine.

But if you really want to stay at BRV while the Christmas decorations are up, you will most likely have to pony up to buy in there.

Part of the draw are the Christmas decorations, for sure. But we're flexible travelers so we go at random times of the year. One thing I definitely want to avoid is buying at a different resort and sitting there the whole time thinking we were at BRV

Why not CC? Same location, longer contract, plus GVs and cabins.

CC is a little out of our price range right now. Resale contracts are harder to come by and BRV generally has a lower cost per point. Although I'm not completely ruling it out, for all the reasons you mentioned.

 

[Wakey]

In your 20s do not buy a contract with so few years left.
Even if you keep it 10-15 years it will be starting to lose value on resale. People won't keep on paying top dollar as these contracts start nearing their end.

 

[disneynutz]

Based on the thousands of resale contracts, my guess is that many owners keep their contracts for less than 10 years. Will you really commit to annual vacations at Disney beyond that?

Bill

 

[dolewhipdreams]

Based on the thousands of resale contracts, my guess is that many owners keep their contracts for less than 10 years. Will you really commit to annual vacations at Disney beyond that?

Bill

So are you saying that it might be more advantageous to buy a longer contract with a (potentially) better resale value if we decide we want to sell down the road?

 

[disneynutz]

I'm saying that it depends on you. What is more important, what makes you happiest, and do you need to justify a longer purchase?

For us we bought all of our contracts based on loving the resorts at the time and wanting to be sure that we would get what we want by booking there at 11 months. We don't expect to make any money back if and when we sell. We will adjust our holdings based on our changing feelings for the resorts and the rental market for any points that we don't use for ourselves.

Bill

 

[_auroraborealis_]

CCV isn't actually less per point when you consider contract length using most calculations. It's less out of pocket up front, yes. But not necessarily less per point.

Given a 100 point contract, CCV is $182 per point, and 100 points isn't enough for builder incentives. Dues are 7.26 per point. Not taking into account current/future value of capital or any assumption of financing the purchase, CCV costs $10.90 per point per year, and annual dues on 100 points is currently $726. (182/50 + 7.26, assuming you buy a current UY)

BRV in resale is likely to cost ~$110 or so for a 100 point contract. Dues are currently $6.93 per point, although I would expect them to catch up somewhat to CCV in the next few years. The 2042 expiration means you're at $11.51 per point per year, and annual dues at $693.

If you figure that dues are an ongoing expense, the higher dues at CCV might end up making it costlier in 10 years, but, as I said: I suspect the BRV dues will end up leveled out very close to CCV's within 3 years.

Obviously, $11,000 up front (BRV) is easier to handle than $18,200 (CCV). But for that up-front expenditure, you do get the additional 25-26 years, and when you factor that out... cost is competitive.

 

[dolewhipdreams]

CCV isn't actually less per point when you consider contract length using most calculations. It's less out of pocket up front, yes. But not necessarily less per point.

Given a 100 point contract, CCV is $182 per point, and 100 points isn't enough for builder incentives. Dues are 7.26 per point. Not taking into account current/future value of capital or any assumption of financing the purchase, CCV costs $10.90 per point per year, and annual dues on 100 points is currently $726. (182/50 + 7.26, assuming you buy a current UY)

BRV in resale is likely to cost ~$110 or so for a 100 point contract. Dues are currently $6.93 per point, although I would expect them to catch up somewhat to CCV in the next few years. The 2042 expiration means you're at $11.51 per point per year, and annual dues at $693.

If you figure that dues are an ongoing expense, the higher dues at CCV might end up making it costlier in 10 years, but, as I said: I suspect the BRV dues will end up leveled out very close to CCV's within 3 years.

Obviously, $11,000 up front (BRV) is easier to handle than $18,200 (CCV). But for that up-front expenditure, you do get the additional 25-26 years, and when you factor that out... cost is competitive.

That’s a good point. This is the financial stuff that I have a hard time wrapping my head around.

I have a couple of newbie questions:
What are builder incentives?
Why do you think BRV annual dues will catch up to CCV? Continued expenses at WL overall?

We are hoping to pay cash for the contract so the lower upfront cost is really appealing. But I’ve recently been considering financing (with a hefty down payment).

 

[_auroraborealis_]

For newly built resorte, Disney sometimes offer a discount if you buy at least 200 points or similar.

I think BRV catches up because a lot of the dues cover similar things - pool, desk staff, transport. Property taxes as well. It would make sense if a lot of the expenses go in lockstep. BRV may increase faster for a few years until they are close in dues.

 

[PaintsWithAllTheColors]

Hi!

My husband and I were in your shoes a year ago. We’re early-mid twenties and asked ourselves the same questions. We ended up paying cash for 160 points at AKV. Our thought was that it was cheap ($78pp at the time) and had a long life. We honestly love it and are considering adding on with another contract at BLT or Boulder Ridge/CC.

Everyone above me has given a lot of great advice as to which resort to choose and why. Don’t forget to factor in whether or not you plan on having kids as having a longer contract might be nice for future family trips. My biggest advice to you is this: try and pay cash.

 

[rkstocke5609]

I second the “pay cash” . Timeshares are a luxury and their value is greatly diminished if you are paying finance costs. Also, consider that you may be able to afford more points if you by a BRV resale. We actually bought 180 VGF points direct 5 years ago and recinded to buy 210 VWL points via the resale market. Those 30 points have made a lot of difference in our flexibility. I always tell people to buy 20% more points than their calculations tell them they need/want. This small difference has allowed us to do studios one year and 1BR’s the next. Your observations about points/night at BRV are correct, however CCV is the same and did not incur the point per night inflation that we saw at VGF and Poly. Good luck!

 

[PatMcDuck]

We just bought WL BR points. Works for us, as we are 59/60 years old. I sold our BCV points, they sold for $35 more than we paid for the BR points, I think BCV is overpriced considering the years left there. We no longer care about Stormalong Bay, and prefer the WL pools, various food options, location, and atmosphere.

I caution younger people about buying the original shorter term resorts, when asked my opinion. But they are wonderful resorts, of course.

 

[dolewhipdreams]

Thank you for all the advice everyone! You've given us a lot to consider.

I just rented points to stay in BRV next January so we'll take that time to explore WL and see if it's the right location for us. If we love it, we might just have to switch to CC!

 

[Dean]

Hey everyone. I've been creeping the DVC forum for a while now, trying to wrap my head around DVC. I've just about convinced my DH that it's a good choice for us and I'll be taking a tour later this month at SSR.

Here's my issue- based on a lot of factors, we think Boulder Ridge is the resort for us (theme, MK location, price point, etc). However since it was one of the first DVC resorts, there are much (many?) fewer years left on the contracts. We're in our mid-20s now and looking to purchase in the next year or two so Lord willing we'll have several years after the contract expiration to still enjoy WDW vacations.

I know that Disney could always extend the contracts - like they did with OKW - but they might not.

Does the short contract mean that buying BRV has less value since we'll most likely have to buy at a second resort at some point? Should we find a different resort with a later contract expiration?

I'm very new at this and not a financial person at all so any insight or advice you gurus out there can give would be very much appreciated.

It affects the value $$$ wise but not the reasonableness of the option. Just look at all variables including the cost ones. Don't buy something just because it has a later RTU but don't overpay for a shorter one either. Taking the cost and dividing by the remaining RTU doesn't give one a good picture since the end years are worth far less today than the ones that are m much closer.

 

[TexasChick123]

I would like to chime in on this as I am one of those "makes a spreadsheet for every purchase" people. I was also a big naysayer when it came to any resort that was expiring in 2042. However, I have changed my tune somewhat. There is a factor that MANY ignore which is that you don't need to own as many points for a stay with the older resorts. That means less upfront cost. You cannot ignore that when looking at everything. For example, to stay for 7 nights next March in a standard 2-bedroom is 468 points at VGF. To stay in a standard 2-bedroom at BWV is 301 points. That is a difference of a whopping 167 points for the same length of time. That's HUGE. Also, you can buy something like BCV, BWV, or BRV and just hang onto it until it expires. They will still rent out for a premium and more so (I think) as things get added to the parks. Is it as good of an investment as one with a longer contract life, maybe not, but it isn't a terrible idea either. However, with BCV at $130+ per point, I have a harder time justifying that one. BRV and to a lesser extent BWV are not that terrible to buy now as I originally thought. If we look at this in a vacuum regarding value per point, then they are bad buys. However, something that is hard to monetize is how far your points go at any particular resort. That does play into why people buy somewhere. Hopefully, this came together as concisely in this post as it is in my head...