Walking away from mortgage- please no flames here just advise or experiences

OP...its just a house. walk away if that is what is best for your family. :hug:

so what if your credit gets dinged, its just credit and it isn't forever 7-10 yrs at the most and your credit will recover in 1/2 that time enough for a car loan if needed. getting the lowest % rate or best credit card is not the end all of the world and not getting them isn't the end of the world.

life goes on and there are far more important things in life. do what is best for you. In the long run it may end up being the best for you. :goodvibes


I agree. :thumbsup2 Best of luck in whatever you decide to do. :hug:
 
Just wanted to pop back in to give you a little support - regardless of how you choose to handle this situation..

Think over the "good" advice given here; toss the negative/snide/superior junk in the garbage; and take your time making your final decision..

Best of luck to you! :goodvibes
 
Did you guys even read the article? Pretty interesting... I like these parts:

Businesses — in particular Wall Street banks — make such calculations routinely. Morgan Stanley recently decided to stop making payments on five San Francisco office buildings. A Morgan Stanley fund purchased the buildings at the height of the boom, and their value has plunged. Nobody has said Morgan Stanley is immoral — perhaps because no one assumed it was moral to begin with. But the average American, as if sprung from some Franklinesque mythology, is supposed to honor his debts, or so says the mortgage industry as well as government officials. Former Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. declared that “any homeowner who can afford his mortgage payment but chooses to walk away from an underwater property is simply a speculator — and one who is not honoring his obligation.” (Paulson presumably was not so censorious of speculation during his 32-year career at Goldman Sachs.)

and

Think of private-equity firms that close a factory — essentially deciding that the company is worth more dead than alive. Or the New York Yankees and their World Series M.V.P. Hideki Matsui, who parted company as soon as the cheering stopped. Or money-losing hedge-fund managers: rather than try to earn back their investors’ lost capital, they start new funds so they can rake in fresh incentives. Sam Zell, a billionaire, let the Tribune Company, which he had previously acquired, file for bankruptcy. Indeed, the owners of any company that defaults on bonds and chooses to let the company fail rather than invest more capital in it are practicing “strategic default.” Banks signal their complicity with this ethos when they send new credit cards to people who failed to stay current on old ones.

and

And given that nearly a quarter of mortgages are underwater, and that 10 percent of mortgages are delinquent, White, of the University of Arizona, is surprised that more people haven’t walked. He thinks the desire to avoid shame is a factor, as are overblown fears of harm to credit ratings. Probably, homeowners also labor under a delusion that their homes will quickly return to value. White has argued that the government should stop perpetuating default “scare stories” and, indeed, should encourage borrowers to default when it’s in their economic interest. This would correct a prevailing imbalance: homeowners operate under a “powerful moral constraint” while lenders are busily trying to maximize profits. More important, it might get the system unstuck. If lenders feared an avalanche of strategic defaults, they would have an incentive to renegotiate loan terms. In theory, this could produce a wave of loan modifications — the very goal the Treasury has been pursuing to end the crisis.


WHY is it OK for large businesses to get away with this CRAP and the peons (us) pick up all the slack? They have people at each others throats on their moral high horses and all these CEO's are laughing all the way to the bank. With our tax bailouts. We should be mad at them- not some single mom down on her luck.
 
FYI folks: a house can be awarded in a divorce without any money exchanging hands between parties. My divorce and that of another family member was that way.

Yes but it's value would have been included some ways. IE I keep the house you get the RV. It would have been on the table and decided/discussed in the settlement.

As far as not affording a house it has only been in recent history that everyone owned their own home renting used to be the norm for a lot of working families and you saved for many years before you bought your first home if you ever did.

I still say it is irresponsible to walk away and stick everyone else with your bills when you have money to pay it but just don't want to as the OP has stated.
 

White has argued that the government should stop perpetuating default “scare stories” and, indeed, should encourage borrowers to default when it’s in their economic interest. This would correct a prevailing imbalance: homeowners operate under a “powerful moral constraint” while lenders are busily trying to maximize profits. More important, it might get the system unstuck. If lenders feared an avalanche of strategic defaults, they would have an incentive to renegotiate loan terms. In theory, this could produce a wave of loan modifications — the very goal the Treasury has been pursuing to end the crisis.

Exactly!
 
Maybe the rest of us live within our means. DH could lose his job or divorce me( not likely, 20 years and happy :) ) and I could go to work full-time and afford to still make the mortgage payments.

Yea we could have afforded a way larger home but chose not to for the above reasons. When are people going to be held accountable?

As PP's have already stated sorry no hugs from me, I'm sick of people not taking responsiblity for what they created.


You could go to work full time THAT fast? Wow, please tell all of the other people suffering in looking for a job your secret. (Unless you have a job currently that has been begging you to go full time, I don't think you understand the job market now.)
 
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You could go to work full time THAT fast? Wow, please tell all of the other people suffering in looking for a job your secret. (Unless you have a job currently that has been begging you to go full time, I don't think you understand the job market now.)

Have to admit that I'm a bit curious now too.. A "full time job tomorrow".. I'll bite.. Doing what?

If jobs are that plentiful - and that easy to get in this particular posters area - I'm sure that many other folks would be very interested in hearing some particulars.. Many unemployed people are currently quite open to relocating - providing they can positively get a full time job in the area they would need to relocate to..:goodvibes

Please share,roliepolieoliefan...:goodvibes

Thanks! :thumbsup2
 
Congrats to those that have never had financial problems, may your good fortune continue forever!

To the OP, such big hugs, I know these types of decisions are stressful and heartwrenching

couple of things

1) CHECK your mortgage, including your mortgage insurance. If you have mortgage insurance on any loan, you won't owe on any deficiency and the insurer will be glad to do a short sale and have a lower loss to them then they would have through a foreclosure.

2) as for the divorce, if there is NO EQUITY in the home, then the party keeping the house has nothing to buy out from the other party.

3) talk to your attorney about your state laws regarding relocation of the minor child. I know ours are very particular and if you don't follow them and move the child you could have a lot more problems.

4) finally, if you were ordered to hold your ex harmless in getting the house and they go after him for the default, he can turn around and come after you and there is nothing you can do to stop it. That type of thing is NOT dischargeable in bankruptcy.

These are hard choices and much of it is out of the person's control. There are things that no matter how much planning you do, your just not going to survive it. A divorce will pretty much eliminate ALL savings because the other party (in most states) automatically gets half and then usually your using a lot of the rest for attorney fees (especially if it was contested). So someone who has $30k in the bank in savings can easily find themselves with 15k, paying their attorney 7.5k, (leaving 7.5k) then find themselves unemployed right afterwards and use the savings up in 2-3 months. Not to mention if they have orders to pay off marital debt, pay the other side etc..
 
Yes but it's value would have been included some ways. IE I keep the house you get the RV. It would have been on the table and decided/discussed in the settlement.

As far as not affording a house it has only been in recent history that everyone owned their own home renting used to be the norm for a lot of working families and you saved for many years before you bought your first home if you ever did.

I still say it is irresponsible to walk away and stick everyone else with your bills when you have money to pay it but just don't want to as the OP has stated.

Uhhhh. No. I was awarded the house. period. My niece was awarded her house. period. My ex and I had 11 acres and the house, together. Everything else one of us brought into the marriage. We each kept our own stuff and I got the house. My niece got her house and her hubbie got zilch. I do know what happened in my own divorce--thank you.

Honey, my pay wouldn't cover rent, much less a mortgage. I work to help with the bills but someone has to be available for our child and dh is gone most of the time.

It may not be the greatest choice to walk away, but I can guarantee you that it was between my child doing without and the bank losing money--I will choose my child every time.
 
If they needed both incomes to pay for that under $150K home and they had no extra money to save and no saving then YES they were living beyond their means.

We are a dual income family but only used one income to buy our home.
In our case we could pay our mortgage out of one salary but my DH had a heart attack and was fired and I had been laid off just a bit prior. The medical bills ate up savings.

My point is not to whine particularly since all of that is behind us now but to say that you just never know what might happen.
 
I appologize for not reading all the posts, but I wanted to tell you that the best source of informations is Hud.gov.

You can call and get in touch with a councelor who will work with you and be totally honest about what is best for you, and the ramifications that would go along with each action.

They are there to help. I promise you will not be disappointed if you speak with them.

Good luck and God Bless.
 
If they needed both incomes to pay for that under $150K home and they had no extra money to save and no saving then YES they were living beyond their means.

We are a dual income family but only used one income to buy our home.

That's great when you can do it, but the reality of working class America is that most families do need both incomes to get by. And savings only goes so far when you're dealing with repeated layoffd, prolonged unemployment, huge salary cuts, etc.

Frankly, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the banks when people who don't have other options walk away, because of the things I've seen happen with our friends... One family that we were very close with experienced several layoffs and a major medical issue all within a fairly short time, and fell 2 months behind on their mortgage. They both found new jobs and could afford the mortgage but not the lump-sum late payments the lender (Chase) wanted. When they tried to work something out, they were told they didn't have enough time in their current employment to qualify (well duh, if they'd had stable employment they wouldn't have fallen behind!), so the foreclosure process continued. Chase ended up selling that house for about 70K less than what was owed. How that was preferable to working something out so that they could keep their home and continue paying their mortgage, I don't know, but it is a story I've heard time and again. Mortgage modifications are there to help the morons who bought on no-money-down ARMs, interest only loans, and other foolishness, but don't do a thing for people who did the responsible thing, saved a down payment, stuck with conventional loans, but experienced a catastrophic loss of income, no matter how temporary.
 
You could go to work full time THAT fast? Wow, please tell all of the other people suffering in looking for a job your secret. (Unless you have a job currently that has been begging you to go full time, I don't think you understand the job market now.)

Have to admit that I'm a bit curious now too.. A "full time job tomorrow".. I'll bite.. Doing what?

If jobs are that plentiful - and that easy to get in this particular posters area - I'm sure that many other folks would be very interested in hearing some particulars.. Many unemployed people are currently quite open to relocating - providing they can positively get a full time job in the area they would need to relocate to..:goodvibes

Please share,roliepolieoliefan...:goodvibes



Thanks! :thumbsup2


I work in a surgery center in a large city hospital. Full-time jobs are posted weekly. So yes, if I wanted full-time I could bid and get one. No I wouldn't start tomorrow , I would have to give 2 weeks notice at my current position , but yes, I could go full-time pretty quickly if I wanted to.

And at my current position I could increase my hours as much as I want. We frequently call people in from other departments to help us out because we don't have enough staff . I am contracted to work 2 days a week but most weeks work 4 and my supervisor begs for alot of us to work 5 days.

We're busy, and can get the hours to work if we want to.,

As I said in my other posts, our area was somewhat hit by the economy but not as bad as places like Michigan and California. Our housing market took a small dip but I live in a new home subdivision and there are new homes being built in here everyday as well as in many sub-divisions around me. My son and daughter have got new kids in their classes, so there must be other jobs around here other than where I work.
 
There's ALWAYS been a risk that your house would go down in value, that you would lose your job, that bad things would happen. Just as there's also always been the chance that your house would appreciate in value, and that you would see windfall profits. Why people don't get this is beyond me. We are now in a period where values have declined. I don't get why the banks, and ultimately all other consumers, have to pay for this decline.
People don't "get this" because for the last 20-25 years, the housing market has been steadily increasing in value. We can see several reasons for this: Dual income families became a social norm, and that meant more money available for housing; demand increased. Credit became very easy to obtain, so people could buy much more than past generations could afford. Some people bought into "creative mortgages" that frankly were a bad idea. Housing became -- instead of simply an expense and a place to live -- an investment that grew and made large amounts of money for many people. Too many people were allowed to buy with zero down. Finally, all these things affected our society's perception of "middle class housing", and people began to expect more -- even to think that they deserved more. We as a society seemed to develop the notion that this is life: Investments always pay off, things always go our way, housing is a sure-fire way to grow your money.

Throw in the idea that today's young adults have been raised to think that nothing bad's allowed to happen to them. They weren't allowed NOT to make the team, they weren't allowed to fail a class, they were told that they were always winners (I was talking about this with some of my younger co-workers, and they KNOW that they've been raised this way, and yet they can't NOT think this way -- they KNOW it's hillarious). And now these are many of the people who are in trouble with housing; they're young, they haven't had time to pay down a large part of their mortgage, they don't have significant savings that can pull them out of this crisis, and anyway they're paying back higher student loans than any generation before them. Their parents, who haven't saved enough for retirement, aren't able to help them. They're not prepared for this financial and emotional blow.

Even though people talked about "the housing bubble", people didn't grasp the concept that what's become the norm for us could change. Well, it changed.
Yea, i can find a full-time job tomorrow. Hard to believe, sorry if you think it is. But there are some regions and careers that are still in need of people to fill job positions, even full-time ones with benefits. What do you think that there is not a full-time job to be found in this whole USA? :confused3.
No I don't think there's not a single full time job anywhere, :confused3 I also don't think you could go out tomorrow and just get hired that day. I think you might find it a little harder then you think to find a job. I'm glad you don't need to tho, it's good for you and your family and I'm being serious when I say that
The truth is somewhat in between you two:

I don't believe any of us could literally tomorrow find a good, professional job well-suited to our specific needs, a full-time job that we really want, with benefits and room for growth. Not literally tomorrow. Finding that kind of job takes time, then you'd have to wait for the interview, wait again for their decision (of course, you could use the time to arrange day care and make other arrangements that'd now be necessary for your change from stay-at-home to full-time worker), then you'd wait for your first paycheck. Do these jobs exist? Of course! Could you have one tomorrow? No.

On the other hand, most of the people I know -- and I'm talking about adults with good work histories, not the chronically unemployed without good job skills or educations -- aren't staying unemployed. They aren't necessarily finding jobs right away, and they aren't necessarily finding their dream jobs, BUT they are finding jobs -- even if they're working under the table, waiting tables, or running a cash register at Lowe's. The adults that I know who want to work are working, even if they're under-employed (meaning that they're doing a job that's technically beneath their education or ability level).

So the truth is somewhere in between Fantasy Land and Depression City.
I am contracted to work 2 days a week but most weeks work 4 and my supervisor begs for alot of us to work 5 days.
You already have a job. You could change your hours. That's a far cry from finding and obtaining a brand-new job.
 
In our case we could pay our mortgage out of one salary but my DH had a heart attack and was fired and I had been laid off just a bit prior. The medical bills ate up savings.

My point is not to whine particularly since all of that is behind us now but to say that you just never know what might happen.

This is why DH and I both have LTD insurance. If we can not do the job we are doing now then we get LTD. It kicks in after 3 months. Many also by STD for the first 3 months.

One never knows what is ahead but one can ask themselves what if X happens what will we do.

In the past few years both DH and I have had surgeries and we never missed a bill. Between the two of us we missed almost 4 months of income. We paid all of our deductibles and copays when then arrived to get a reduction in the bill.
 
I work in a surgery center in a large city hospital. Full-time jobs are posted weekly. So yes, if I wanted full-time I could bid and get one. No I wouldn't start tomorrow , I would have to give 2 weeks notice at my current position , but yes, I could go full-time pretty quickly if I wanted to.

I figured you were some kind of Nurse. Yes, I believe you could walk away from your job today and be working somewhere else tomorrow.
 
I work in a surgery center in a large city hospital. Full-time jobs are posted weekly. So yes, if I wanted full-time I could bid and get one. No I wouldn't start tomorrow , I would have to give 2 weeks notice at my current position , but yes, I could go full-time pretty quickly if I wanted to.

I figured you were some kind of Nurse. Yes, I believe you could walk away from your job today and be working somewhere else tomorrow.

So maybe you should count your blessings instead of coming off as "holier than thou" and realize that others may have chosen a different career path that hasn't been spared as yours has. Instead you come off as condescending, when all you have been is lucky. Hopefully healthcare reform will even the playing field for all.
 
Even though people talked about "the housing bubble", people didn't grasp the concept that what's become the norm for us could change. Well, it changed.

Forget about grasping the concept of a housing bubble, start with the concept of money. It's amazing to read so many comments about sticking it to the "greedy bankers", apparently they must think there is a "greedy bank tree" somewhere and the GB's just pick the money off of it. They either keep their money in a pillowcase somewhere or just don't get it. :confused3
 
So maybe you should count your blessings instead of coming off as "holier than thou" and realize that others may have chosen a different career path that hasn't been spared as yours has. Instead you come off as condescending, when all you have been is lucky. Hopefully healthcare reform will even the playing field for all.

I have said many times in this post I am lucky to have the job as i do. Did you miss that? :rolleyes1

You better hope healthcare reform isn't passed, because believe me , whatever the lay person may think this health care reform isn't good for anyone,

and aren't we a bit off-topic?
 


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