Walking a reservation

[BeachClub2014]

The way to fix it is to right-size supply and demand with point cost... There's a reason why this isn't an issue every day....

Okay. You'll get no argument from me.

 

[PolyRob]

Just to add, the fee we pay MS to manage the program is fixed…it’s 12% of the operating budget.

So, the more costs, the less cushion DVC has within their budget.

Meaning, owners can’t pay DVC more…DVC would have to take it from that same 12% they get now.

OH I honestly didn't realize that. So DVC would have to shift funds from other operating expenses in order to staff more MS? Or would DVC have to cover costs above the 12%?

I'm sure the braintrust at DVC can figure out the details of any changes to be implemented to reduce/eliminate walking without harming the average member.

Not sure where the reference to phone calls to member services originates, but not from me. I try to avoid calling them at all.

End of the day, stopping walking is easily accomplished, should DVC desire to do so. That is why I emailed them with my opinion as opposed to just complaining about it here.

I really have 0 faith in this considering how bad the online booking tool is.

The reference to MS phone support is relevant because that was the initial reason for the change in booking this way.

Maybe I am a pessimist, but nothing, especially when dealing with Disney/DVC, is easy.

 

[BeachClub2014]

OH I honestly didn't realize that. So DVC would have to shift funds from other operating expenses in order to staff more MS? Or would DVC have to cover costs above the 12%?


I really have 0 faith in this considering how bad the online booking tool is.

The reference to MS phone support is relevant because that was the initial reason for the change in booking this way.

Maybe I am a pessimist, but nothing, especially when dealing with Disney/DVC, is easy.

Okay. I do have faith in their ability to manage DVC and also address this problem, should they choose to do so, and I hope they do.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Okay. I do have faith in their ability to manage DVC and also address this problem, should they choose to do so, and I hope they do.

It’s a simple algorithm…. will an action cost them money or make them money this quarter. If it’s going to cost them more money (new IT, more calls to MS)… probably not going to happen….

 

[Sandisw]

OH I honestly didn't realize that. So DVC would have to shift funds from other operating expenses in order to staff more MS? Or would DVC have to cover costs above the 12%?


I really have 0 faith in this considering how bad the online booking tool is.

The reference to MS phone support is relevant because that was the initial reason for the change in booking this way.

Maybe I am a pessimist, but nothing, especially when dealing with Disney/DVC, is easy.

DVC gets 12% from us via dues and so that is all they get from us.

Any costs above and beyond that amount would have to come from other income DVC gets. Things like rentals, OTU points, etc.

So, there is a big incentive for DVC to keep costs balanced against that the amount they get from dues since the rest gets to stay with them as profit.

If they had to increase MS to handle more calls, which is what happened when it was book from check out, it’s would eat up more of their budget, which most likely IMO would come from reducing staffing elsewhere and not from dipping into other sources…

 

[BeachClub2014]

It’s a simple algorithm…. will an action cost them money or make them money this quarter. If it’s going to cost them more money (new IT, more calls to MS)… probably not going to happen….

Okay. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and clearing up the issue. I won't debate whether DVC management will or won't make any changes, as there is very little upside to that argument.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm sure the braintrust at DVC can figure out the details of any changes to be implemented to reduce/eliminate walking without harming the average member.

Not sure where the reference to phone calls to member services originates, but not from me. I try to avoid calling them at all.

End of the day, stopping walking is easily accomplished, should DVC desire to do so. That is why I emailed them with my opinion as opposed to just complaining about it here.

The phone calls reference was made by the board last year.

They explained that the reason behind the change to the booking process from check out to check in plus 7 was because the goal was to reduce the amount of time owners need to contact MS to get the trips booked.

 

[BeachClub2014]

The phone calls reference was made by the board last year.

They explained that the reason behind the change to the booking process from check out to check in plus 7 was because the goal was to reduce the amount of time owners need to contact MS to get the trips booked.

Okay. I was just clarifying in my post that I hadn't ever suggested a return to calling MS for reservations. I'm not sure why anyone would want to go back to that hassle.

 

[Sandisw]

My view is the whole situation could be most easily rectified by having a points chart that accurately reflected demand trends...

December - particularly early December is "too good a deal"... which results in this feeding frenzy and pandemonium... The points chart needs to be redone - December is too low for example.... and other seasons - including parts of the summer - are too high in my view.

Much of the year doesn't have this problem. It's these few times that the demand and points are completely out of alignment.

I do not believe they have the ability to adjust the relationship between studios and 1 bedrooms, but that is another part of the problem as well...

Moving between room sizes is definitely something people have a different take on.

Lock offs are declared as 2 bedrooms and several can exist within a unit. So, I don’t think it’s as simple to determine.

We know they can’t raise the lock off premium so whatever that is, can’t be increased.

Point chart adjustments is definitely a good step and they have attempted to do that.

Since we should be getting those in the next month or so, it will be interesting to see if they did anything as a way to deal with this topic?

They also have to submit updated documents every December with the new budget info, which is also when we found out about the new transfer rules last year.

So if they have any plans to update things, then I’d expect owners to find out at the meetings in 3 weeks.

 

[airjay75]

My view is the whole situation could be most easily rectified by having a points chart that accurately reflected demand trends...

https://www.dvcrofr.com/tools/dvc-vs-rack-rates

Your point prompted me to spend a little time looking at dvcrofr's tool that compares points cost to rack rates and the percentage savings. Much of December really is an outlier in terms of the savings you'll get on DVC over paying Disney's cash rates for the same room. I don't really see any other month with so many days in it that has that kind of savings. Interestingly, the month that sticks out to me as having the most savings after December is September, perhaps, suggesting points could also be too low for that month. May also seems to be a month with some consistently higher than average savings. Summer and some parts of the spring seem to be the times where points result in less savings. Of course, I'm sure this is only part of the puzzle to determining points charts.

Will be interesting to see what, if any, changes are made with the 2027 points charts. Could give an indication whether this is part of Disney's response to the commercial renting and walking issues or whether we're left with a "personal use" box and, perhaps, something else (or nothing at all).

 

[Sandisw]

https://www.dvcrofr.com/tools/dvc-vs-rack-rates

Your point prompted me to spend a little time looking at dvcrofr's tool that compares points cost to rack rates and the percentage savings. Much of December really is an outlier in terms of the savings you'll get on DVC over paying Disney's cash rates for the same room. I don't really see any other month with so many days in it that has that kind of savings. Interestingly, the month that sticks out to me as having the most savings after December is September, perhaps, suggesting points could also be too low for that month. May also seems to be a month with some consistently higher than average savings. Summer and some parts of the spring seem to be the times where points result is less savings. Of course, I'm sure this is only part of the puzzle to determining points charts.

Will be interesting to see what, if any, changes are made with the 2027 points charts. Could give an indication whether this is part of Disney's response to the commercial renting and walking issues or whether we're left with a "personal use" box and, perhaps, something else (or nothing at all).

IIRC, when DVC first came to be, the point charts and seasons matched closely to cash bookings.

So, that is why early December was always low points,,,it was not a popular time for WDW.

Fast forward and DVC owners capitalized on that and why December remains so popular.

DVC has a responsibility to try to make the charts match supply and demand of DVC owners as best they can.

But, summer is hot and fall are the holidays so it’s never going to be perfect.

We shall see if they do make adjustments for 2027 to help with making December more points.

 

[Cfabar1]

DVC has a responsibility to try to make the charts match supply and demand of DVC owners as best they can.

But, summer is hot and fall are the holidays so it’s never going to be perfect.

Yes, and Summer is becoming less and less popular it feels to me...

 

[muppets3d]

Yes, and Summer is becoming less and less popular it feels to me...

Folks seem a lot more willing to take their kids out of school for vacations these days. Or maybe homeschooling/year-round schools with breaks during the year are more popular. Or maybe it is all the DINK Disney Adults.

 

[Add-On-Itis]

https://www.dvcrofr.com/tools/dvc-vs-rack-rates

Your point prompted me to spend a little time looking at dvcrofr's tool that compares points cost to rack rates and the percentage savings. Much of December really is an outlier in terms of the savings you'll get on DVC over paying Disney's cash rates for the same room. I don't really see any other month with so many days in it that has that kind of savings. Interestingly, the month that sticks out to me as having the most savings after December is September, perhaps, suggesting points could also be too low for that month. May also seems to be a month with some consistently higher than average savings. Summer and some parts of the spring seem to be the times where points result in less savings. Of course, I'm sure this is only part of the puzzle to determining points charts.

Will be interesting to see what, if any, changes are made with the 2027 points charts. Could give an indication whether this is part of Disney's response to the commercial renting and walking issues or whether we're left with a "personal use" box and, perhaps, something else (or nothing at all).

The tool really highlight the poor value from 1-bedrooms

 

[muppets3d]

The tool really highlight the poor value from 1-bedrooms

It would be suicide for DVC to do it but they really need to rebalance the points between studios and 1 bedrooms as much as possible to ease demand and make 1 bedroom villas a better deal.

 

[AstroBlasters]

It would be suicide for DVC to do it but they really need to rebalance the points between studios and 1 bedrooms as much as possible to ease demand and make 1 bedroom villas a better deal.

 

[lowlight]

It would be suicide for DVC to do it but they really need to rebalance the points between studios and 1 bedrooms as much as possible to ease demand and make 1 bedroom villas a better deal.

Same with views.

 

[toesmom]

The whole reason this is a hot topic is because it’s a very polarizing idea and it does frustrate people.

And, as I said, people do it because they are afraid of getting shut out because too many other owners want the same thing.

This comes up at this time every year because now is the time when people have begun walking in earnest toward those October to December trips!!!

I don’t think it’s because too many owners want same thing, rather appears many commercial renters book these and sell reservations. I may be wrong. I understand it is sensitive subject.

 

[CarolynFH]

It would be suicide for DVC to do it but they really need to rebalance the points between studios and 1 bedrooms as much as possible to ease demand and make 1 bedroom villas a better deal.

The original iteration of the 2020 points charts increased points for both studios and 1BR in order to decrease points for 2BR. It caused great furor, and DVC was forced to back down and issue revised 2020 points charts that simply adjusted for seasons as usual. Many owners, including myself, believe it's illegal for them to reallocate between villa sizes (even though they got away with it on the SSR treehouses). So I sincerely doubt that they'll reallocate between studios and 1BR in existing resorts; maybe LSL, being new, will have 1BR points costs set to make them "a better deal."

 

[Sandisw]

I don’t think it’s because too many owners want same thing, rather appears many commercial renters book these and sell reservations. I may be wrong. I understand it is sensitive subject.

Walking has occurred for years and it was before some of the big players began doing confirmed offerings.

5 to 7 years ago, that was not a big thing. Matter of fact, it really exploded after Covid and seems to have continued.

There are definitely room types and times of year where the number of owners who want specific rooms and dates outweighs the number of rooms available.

That doesn’t mean that those who grab them to regularly to rent don’t play some role…they do…..but it’s just not accurate that if that was 100% stopped that no one would need to walk and everyone would get what they want.

Please don’t interpret this to mean that it’s not frustrating or that DVC shouldnt try and find a way to balance the ability to make lead guest changes and modifications to reservations for your average owner against stopping those who do it well above what would be typical because they are in it for rental reasons or walking.

Studios at CCV are walked for December because there are just not enough of them for those owners who want them and WL has always been one of the most popular places to stay for the holidays. It is for cash guests as well.

Do some who rent to the degree that they appear to be violating the commercial use policy snagging these rooms? Yes, of course it plays a role.

However, regular owners do get them without walking too..

Now, I certainly understand why some would like them to stop owners ability to do it because they feel it’s fairer.

IMO, the fairest way is to use the special seasons preference list for the rooms that are most impacted.

But, to say that there would be no issue booking those AKV CL rooms or those BWV RV rooms if walking didn’t exist is simply not accurate.

What the board stated about this topic last year was they are open to changes but any would be carefully weighed against the potential consequences of that change.

IMO, since nothing as been done yet, it means they are still trying to find that balance and if they do, they will update things.