Walking “fix” implemented? Problems booking a high value Villa.

[Tatebeck]

I doubt captcha would help much. The bot script would simply pause and wait for a hyman to solve the captcha, then continue. Imagine if it showed availabilty, but didn;t hold it for you while you do the captcha...there would surely be screaming claiming captcha cost me my reservation!

Making them switch to human input increases their booking time, meaning it would work. A single person monitoring multiple accounts with a bot would have to find which account is wanting the captcha, then switch to that tab/screen and do it, while the purely human booking would just have the one screen and would already be ready for the captcha.

Adding a few seconds to the bot booking process is all that is needed to make it basically useless. And if two of the reservations the person with the bot is looking at need captcha? The second one would surely be lost to someone who doesn't have to do 2 captchas, and the first would now be a toss up. Unless you have 1 person per bot per booking, which kind of defeats the purpose of a bot as now they are basically a regular booking human again

 

[Tatebeck]

My other option would be to make the booking time a bit more "human" or random as well. Instead of going live with the inventory right at 8:00 and 0 seconds to the second, they could pick a slightly random time each day within say 5 or 10 seconds of 8:00 AM. Between 7:59 and 50 seconds to 8:00 and 10 seconds for example. The exact time it goes live each day could change a tiny bit so the computer programs cannot time it perfectly. Half would be early, half would be late, and only a few would get the timing exactly right. But with human error, internet connections, etc. it may make less of a difference for the human booking a reservation.

Or they could slightly change the placement of the buttons you press after searching to select the room each time the page is loaded, making it harder for programs to select the button, etc. Things that a human booking the reservation may not notice, but would throw off a calibrated program. (the button being a couple lines further down, or centered instead of aligned right/left etc)

 

[Chuck S]

Making them switch to human input increases their booking time, meaning it would work. A single person monitoring multiple accounts with a bot would have to find which account is wanting the captcha, then switch to that tab/screen and do it, while the purely human booking would just have the one screen and would already be ready for the captcha.

Adding a few seconds to the bot booking process is all that is needed to make it basically useless. And if two of the reservations the person with the bot is looking at need captcha? The second one would surely be lost to someone who doesn't have to do 2 captchas, and the first would now be a toss up. Unless you have 1 person per bot per booking, which kind of defeats the purpose of a bot as now they are basically a regular booking human again

I don’t think they’d need to find the tab/screen or account. When we used a script for the rental board years ago, all that popped up automatically just waiting for human approval by pressing a key, then continued on. In the case of captcha, a few key strokes and an enter would be required, and it would continue

 

[Tatebeck]

I don’t think they’d need to find the tab/screen or account. When we used a script for the rental board years ago, all that popped up automatically just waiting for human approval by pressing a key, then continued on. In the case of captcha, a few key strokes and an enter would be required, and it would continue

That just depends on the captcha. Make it a harder one that isn't just a few keystrokes, one that requires mouse clicks, randomized between them, etc. And even then the person booking would likely miss out on the reservations from the second captcha on if they are trying for multiple of the most sought after rooms

 

[Chuck S]

That just depends on the captcha. Make it a harder one that isn't just a few keystrokes, one that requires mouse clicks, randomized between them, etc. And even then the person booking would likely miss out on the reservations from the second captcha on if they are trying for multiple of the most sought after rooms

So a member needing multiple rooms for a large family trip would be out of luck, too? I've needed 3 rooms for one family trip a couple of times now. I sure wouldn't want to essentially log out and back in between making each of those reservatons. And is captcha a copyright licensed program? Who would pay for that based on the volume of use the Member Website gets? I've noticed a LOT of sites have only basic captcha. no select a photo type thing, just click here if you're not a robot. So It musth not be an inexpensive service. Since DVC Management operations revenue stream is limited to 12% of dues, I doubt they want added expenses.

 

[Tatebeck]

So member needing mulyople rooms for a large family trip would be out of luck, too? I've needed 3 rooms for one family trip a couple of times now.

Not at all. I think we're talking about different rooms at that point. If it's one of the rooms that is gone in seconds how are you getting multiple rooms now? You are talking about booking slightly less desirable rooms if you are able to go through the booking process 3 times and they are still there. If you are able to log in and book 3 stays in a row in Value or Club rooms at AKV for example, I need you to share your secrets lol

 

[Chuck S]

Not at all. I think we're talking about different rooms at that point. If it's one of the rooms that is gone in seconds how are you getting multiple rooms now? You are talking about booking slightly less desirable rooms if you are able to go through the booking process 3 times and they are still there. If you are able to log in and book 3 stays in a row in Value or Club rooms at AKV for example, I need you to share your secrets lol

Considering there are only 3 HA Grandvillas at OKW, a resort where many owners are getting up in years, you might consider those hard to get rooms. I walk whenever I need one of them.

 

[Tatebeck]

Considering there are only 3 HA Grandvillas at OKW, a resort where many owners are getting up in years, you might consider those hard to get rooms. I walk whenever I need one of them.

Ok, and when you or I need to do book something like that and start a walk, all I am saying is that I would like you and I both to have the same chance to book it the morning it becomes available, instead of having a possibility of it being snatched by a bot a millisecond into the window.

 

[Sandisw]

Not at all. I think we're talking about different rooms at that point. If it's one of the rooms that is gone in seconds how are you getting multiple rooms now? You are talking about booking slightly less desirable rooms if you are able to go through the booking process 3 times and they are still there. If you are able to log in and book 3 stays in a row in Value or Club rooms at AKV for example, I need you to share your secrets lol

So, doesn’t this go back to the issue it being a small set of rooms for a few resorts?

Maybe the only true way to make it fair for those rooms is to apply the special seasons list? I don’t know if they can do that year round .

Or, force owners who want those rooms to have to call in to MS to book them? Not sure that would go over well, but would stop bots.

 

[Tatebeck]

So, doesn’t this go back to the issue it being a small set of rooms for a few resorts?

Maybe the only true way to make it fair for those rooms is to apply the special seasons list? I don’t know if they can do that year round .

Or, force owners who want those rooms to have to call in to MS to book them? Not sure that would go over well, but would stop bots.

Rooms with extremely small quantities are very bad, yes. But also, just the most popular booking category at most resorts can be hard to get, even if there are a decent amount of rooms. I don't think it's a problem that can be fixed by changing a couple things at a couple resorts. That wouldn't put a stop to it, they would likely just move to the next most popular rooms that are still available to book without calling in or that aren't on the special seasons list.

The system itself needs to be bot-proofed, or Disney can target who they think are heavy speculative renters, but they seem very hesitant to do that, and I think more members would be against that, in fear of them losing their ability to rent out their points like they are supposed to be able to.

 

[Sandisw]

Rooms with extremely small quantities are very bad, yes. But also, just the most popular booking category at most resorts can be hard to get, even if there are a decent amount of rooms. I don't think it's a problem that can be fixed by changing a couple things at a couple resorts. That wouldn't put a stop to it, they would likely just move to the next most popular rooms that are still available to book without calling in or that aren't on the special seasons list.

The system itself needs to be bot-proofed, or Disney can target who they think are heavy speculative renters, but they seem very hesitant to do that, and I think more members would be against that, in fear of them losing their ability to rent out their points like they are supposed to be able to.

While I would love to see a system in place to prevent bots, and it has nothing to do with rentals, I would not want a system that is so micromanaged to try and make all rooms book up at similar rates,

SV rooms at RIV are always going to be popular and there has to be some understanding of that. IMO, as long as one can book their home resort at 11 months, even if it isn’t the exact room one wants, the system is as fair as it is going to be in a points based system.

 

[Tatebeck]

While I would love to see a system in place to prevent bots, and it has nothing to do with rentals, I would not want a system that is so micromanaged to try and make all rooms book up at similar rates,

SV rooms at RIV are always going to be popular and there has to be some understanding of that. IMO, as long as one can book their home resort at 11 months, even if it isn’t the exact room one wants, the system is as fair as it is going to be in a points based system.

Definitely not looking for a system that forces all rooms to book at the same rate lol. There are always going to be some rooms that book quicker than others. Just hoping for a system that allows everyone trying to log on that morning at 8:00 to have the same chances for the same rooms

 

[muppets3d]

Disney doesn't want the website to prevent legitimate owners from booking or using their membership so they seem to be hesitant to implement anti-bot measures. They tried 2FA about a 18 months ago and quickly rolled it back.

 

[Tatebeck]

Disney doesn't want the website to prevent legitimate owners from booking or using their membership so they seem to be hesitant to implement anti-bot measures. They tried 2FA about a 18 months ago and quickly rolled it back.

I think that was because their IT system sucks not because anti-bot measures are inherently bad.

 

[muppets3d]

I think that was because their IT system sucks not because anti-bot measures are inherently bad.

They're a Fortune 100 company, they can figure it out. 2FA seems to be working fine now for the loan portion of the DVC dashboard.

 

[Chuck S]

They're a Fortune 100 company, they can figure it out. 2FA seems to be working fine now for the loan portion of the DVC dashboard.

I'm guessing a lot of members trying to book reservations felt it was too much of a delay.

 

[Tatebeck]

They should be able to figure it out for sure. They did a trial run, let's see if they come out with anything else

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Rooms with extremely small quantities are very bad, yes. But also, just the most popular booking category at most resorts can be hard to get, even if there are a decent amount of rooms. I don't think it's a problem that can be fixed by changing a couple things at a couple resorts. That wouldn't put a stop to it, they would likely just move to the next most popular rooms that are still available to book without calling in or that aren't on the special seasons list.

The system itself needs to be bot-proofed, or Disney can target who they think are heavy speculative renters, but they seem very hesitant to do that, and I think more members would be against that, in fear of them losing their ability to rent out their points like they are supposed to be able to.

Are you just commenting theoretically vs from actual experience? The above about "without calling in or special seasons list" (those are n/a) makes me think it's much more theoretical. The vast majority of rooms in DVC are bookable at 11 months. There is no guarantee of any room with DVC, other than if you've purchased a fixed week, but that often seems to be forgotten and then the complaints start about not getting the particular room that was wanted. The theorized "fixes" are for such a small subset that either was always a problem or going to be an issue for booking is not really a reason to implement any measures that make the process more difficult. Even assuming bots are now part of the equation hasn't changed the experience that's been going on for years and years for a certain subset of rooms.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I'm guessing a lot of members trying to book reservations felt it was too much of a delay.

Plus there's the question of the necessity.

 

[Tatebeck]

Are you just commenting theoretically vs from actual experience? The above about "without calling in or special seasons list" (those are n/a) makes me think it's much more theoretical. The vast majority of rooms in DVC are bookable at 11 months. There is no guarantee of any room with DVC, other than if you've purchased a fixed week, but that often seems to be forgotten and then the complaints start about not getting the particular room that was wanted. The theorized "fixes" are for such a small subset that either was always a problem or going to be an issue for booking is not really a reason to implement any measures that make the process more difficult. Even assuming bots are now part of the equation hasn't changed the experience that's been going on for years and years for a certain subset of rooms.

I was responding to Sandisw who mentioned using special season list or call in only for some rooms as a possible solution. I have not been a member when either of those are required.

The problem with bots is they would be targeting specific rooms, often with low inventory. You can go from the same chance as everyone else, say even only 10 or 20% chance for a room to less than 1% real quick. Either way they would be still hard to get, but your chances just got 10 to 20 times harder if anyone has successful bots that are quicker than a human at booking.