W. Va Hospitals Will Fire Unvaccinated Workers

[sbell111]

... Of all people, I excpect medical workers to be the most diligent when it comes to protecting themselves and others. It makes very little sense to require them to.

Only 13% of hospital nurses got the seasonal flu vaccine last year.

If your data is to be believed, frighteningly few of these workers are actually being vaccinated without being required to do so. Therefore, they are not being "diligent when it comes to protecting themselves and others". The only thing that's left is to require them to take those required steps to protect others and fire them if they do not.

 

[FireDancer]

There are people who do not wish to vaccinate and they should not have to be. I am not going to participate in a debate about the pros and cons of vaccination but there are people on both sides and neither should be forced to conform to the other. I think we should all have control of our own health.

I do not vaccinate because I am willing to let my immune system handle anything I get. I should be free to do so regardless of my job.

There are religious exemptions to forced vaccinations in schools and if I had an employer that tried to force a vaccination on me I would object for religious purposes (though I don't object for that reason). Of course I would consult an attorney but I am pretty sure that a religious exemption can't be questioned and does not have to be proved.

My body my choice.

 

[shrubber]

If your data is to be believed, frighteningly few of these workers are actually being vaccinated without being required to do so. Therefore, they are not being "diligent when it comes to protecting themselves and others". The only thing that's left is to require them to take those required steps to protect others and fire them if they do not.

The source is the Nursing Times, so it sounds like a reasonable source.
http://www.nursingtimes.net/whats-new-in-nursing/swine-flu/dh-director-of-immunisation-tells-nurses-they-have-a-duty-to-have-swine-flu-jab/5005221.article

And this was data for 2008. Nurses were not required to get flu shots. Only 13.5% recieved shots.
These are men and woman with extensive training in not only medicine but certainly in communicable diseases. How could you say they are not being diligent? I have to think that these fine folks are acutley aware of the benefits and risks ( or waste of time ) of getting flu shots.

I am not aware that the health service was crippled in 2008 - 2009 by excessive staff absence due to seasonal flu even though the vaccination rate was so low. Do you?
The premise is incorrect
The idea that unvaccinated hospital workers pose a serious threat to anyone is unproven at best? Certainly last years low vaccination rate does much more than imply that.

 

[shrubber]

There are religious exemptions to forced vaccinations in schools and if I had an employer that tried to force a vaccination on me I would object for religious purposes (though I don't object for that reason). Of course I would consult an attorney but I am pretty sure that a religious exemption can't be questioned and does not have to be proved.

My body my choice.

States have the discretion to determine whether to permit religious exemptions for vaccinations. Arizona, Mississippi, and West Virginia do not permit such exemptions.

 

[locolala]

We're required to get certain vaccines before we start our internship (I'm a virology grad student). If we don't want the vaccines, we're free to choose another career field. If some new pandemic comes up and I'm still working, I'll have to get vaccinated on the off chance I'll be exposed. No opting out for relgious reasons, if you have a relgious belief that says you can't get the vaccines then you need a new job. Tough luck.

 

[DawnCt1]

I saw this one coming.

http://www2.nbc4i.com/cmh/news/stat...spitals_will_fire_unvaccinated_workers/29542/



We've seen employers terminate workers for using tobacco, and many cheered. We've discussed other states have mentioned raising insurance rates for overweight workers and many said why not? The obese cost us more in insurance dollars.

The next level? Accept an invasive chemical in your body or you're fired.

Slippery slope, folks.

One thing a hospitalized patient should be able to do is to enter the hospital for care and feel that everything has been done that can and will prevent them from getting sicker. Patients in ICU are very vulnerable. Patients recovering from surgery are vulnerable. Patients with depressed immune systems are especially vulnerable. While the flu may make a hospital worker very sick, it can kill patients. Would I want an unimmunized nurse or health care worker caring for my newborn infant or sick child? Absolutely not. We require children to be immunized to attend school. Requiring health care workers to be immunized to attend to the sick should be seen as a reasonable expectation. I don't know how this can be equated to tobacco use, unless someone is blowing smoke in my face, nor obesity but delivering pathogens to my bedside? Yup, that's a hazard.

 

[mhsjax]

For a hospital where people are ill and have less healthy immune system I think it should be manditory. How would you like to find out Grandma went to due to a fall and died from catching the Flu from a sick caretaker?

You could just as easily find out the Grandma dies because some poor nurse that had been vaccinated but was overworked or had too many patients because the same hospital that forced him or her to get the flue shot refuses to have the appropriate staffing to safely care the their patients.

I know too many nurses that have quit the profession because of these dangers. These Drs and nurses put their lives on the line when dealing with patients with HIV and Hepatitis, I also have known several nurses that have been spit on and urinated on when dealing with patients with HIV, just because the patient was upset at having the illness. I don't think that nurses are refusing to get the vaccine for no good reason. I have spent year in a physicians office and the only time I got a flu shot, I was sick as a dog and was out of work for several days.

 

[DawnCt1]

I understand the government stepping in to require employees take steps to prevent the spread of disease. I may not agree with it, but I understand it.
State health codes for instance. Requiring that employees wash their hands after using the toilet for example. Get it.
However, most if not all of those cases I can think of result in preventing disease,infection to an unassuming populace from an unassuming worker.
It seems that is hardly the case in a hospital now is it.
A Hospital is full of sick and infected people to begin with right?
And what doctor or nurse does not follow infection protocal nowindays not only to prevent others but themselves from getting sick?
Everything I have heard on the news and from the CDC says the best way to prevent infection from the flu is to wash your hands. Medical staff are not doing that already? Why force them to take a vaccine?
I refuse to believe that these hospital workers are being reckless with thier own health and therefor should be forced to be immunized.
Just does not make any sense.

Hospitals are full of sick people; not necessarily "infected" people. Often immunosupressed people, newborns, post operative patients, etc. The best way to prevent the flu is a FLU SHOT. Everything else should be expected and done, but it isn't foolproof. An employee can pick up the flu at home, bring it to work and spread it before they know they have it.

 

[DawnCt1]

Well, there are vaccines for staph infections, menengitis, yellow fever ect.
We don't demand medical workers get vaccinated for all of these do we?

Of all people, I excpect medical workers to be the most diligent when it comes to protecting themselves and others. It makes very little sense to require them to.

We do require college students to have Menactra (menningitis vaccine) to live in the dorms and Yellow fever isn't an issue in the US. One way medical workers can protect themselves and others is via a flu shot. It makes total sense to require it.

 

[locolala]

We do require college students to have Menactra (menningitis vaccine) to live in the dorms and Yellow fever isn't an issue in the US. One way medical workers can protect themselves and others is via a flu shot. It makes total sense to require it.

I would like a "like" button for this post.

 

[Art 1]

Good idea I think.

 

[DawnCt1]

You could just as easily find out the Grandma dies because some poor nurse that had been vaccinated but was overworked or had too many patients because the same hospital that forced him or her to get the flue shot refuses to have the appropriate staffing to safely care the their patients.

I know too many nurses that have quit the profession because of these dangers. These Drs and nurses put their lives on the line when dealing with patients with HIV and Hepatitis, I also have known several nurses that have been spit on and urinated on when dealing with patients with HIV, just because the patient was upset at having the illness. I don't think that nurses are refusing to get the vaccine for no good reason. I have spent year in a physicians office and the only time I got a flu shot, I was sick as a dog and was out of work for several days.

Apparently they are because there is no good reason NOT to get a flu shot, if you aren't allergic to eggs, and haven't had GBS. A flu shot doesn't begin to build immunity until 2 weeks after the initial injection, and doesn't peak for 6 weeks. You may have waited too long for your flu shot or didn't achieve immunity in time, or may have contracted a flu that wasn't covered by the shot. The flu shot did not make you sick.

 

[locolala]

Something I just thought about.. the military doesn't care about religous reasons when it comes to vaccines. The only reason they will allow you to skip a shot is if you're allergic. You can get in a heck of a lot of trouble for skipping the shots, more than just getting fired from a civillian job.

 

[LaraK]

Psssst.....this isn't about morality, it's about money. Flu vaccination rates are now mandatory reporting data, which is being linked to hospital reimbursement rates.

Not to burst any bubbles or anything.

Oh, and by the way, current data estimates that only about 40% of health care workers wash their hands....this is also now a patient safety goal and states are beginning to standardize data collection on this so that they can mandate the reporting and tie performance to compensation.

I always get my flu shot, it makes sense for my family that I get vaccinated when I am exposed to so many people with the flu.

 

[mhsjax]

Apparently they are because there is no good reason NOT to get a flu shot, if you aren't allergic to eggs, and haven't had GBS. A flu shot doesn't begin to build immunity until 2 weeks after the initial injection, and doesn't peak for 6 weeks. You may have waited too long for your flu shot or didn't achieve immunity in time, or may have contracted a flu that wasn't covered by the shot. The flu shot did not make you sick.

To me there is a very good reason not to get the flue shot, I am sorry but I never get sick and 2 days after the shot I was sick. The Drs I worked for told me that it was the shot. Funny, I have never been sick since then either other than colds. No one in my family ever runs a fever, we have to be practically dying to run even 99. After that shot I ran 102. No one will ever convince me that it wasn't the flu shot. And if by some chance I did get some other flu that wasn't covered then just how does that protect us, from what I understand and have read, they only can guess what strain of flu with be going around the following year so they make their best educated guess.

Now, if I worked i a hospital that mandated me to get the flue shot, I probably would given todays employment outlook, I just find it amusing that so many people are up in arms about nurses not getting flu shots when there are so many other things in hospitals that frequently can and do make people even more sick and sometimes kill them.

I had inpatient surg a few weeks ago, the nurse told me to do everything I could to get out of the hospital as quickly as I could, I asked her if it was because of the flu, she said sure but even without the flu there are too many germs floating around the hospital, she even said a hospital is no place for a sick person. lol

 

[mhsjax]

Psssst.....this isn't about morality, it's about money. Flu vaccination rates are now mandatory reporting data, which is being linked to hospital reimbursement rates.

Not to burst any bubbles or anything.

Oh, and by the way, current data estimates that only about 40% of health care workers wash their hands....this is also now a patient safety goal and states are beginning to standardize data collection on this so that they can mandate the reporting and tie performance to compensation.

I always get my flu shot, it makes sense for my family that I get vaccinated when I am exposed to so many people with the flu.

Thank you, basically that is what I am trying to say. Hospitals really don't care about Joe patient, well the business end doesn't. They care about the bottom line. .

 

[DawnCt1]

To me there is a very good reason not to get the flue shot, I am sorry but I never get sick and 2 days after the shot I was sick. The Drs I worked for told me that it was the shot. Funny, I have never been sick since then either other than colds. No one in my family ever runs a fever, we have to be practically dying to run even 99. After that shot I ran 102. No one will ever convince me that it wasn't the flu shot. And if by some chance I did get some other flu that wasn't covered then just how does that protect us, from what I understand and have read, they only can guess what strain of flu with be going around the following year so they make their best educated guess.

Now, if I worked i a hospital that mandated me to get the flue shot, I probably would given todays employment outlook, I just find it amusing that so many people are up in arms about nurses not getting flu shots when there are so many other things in hospitals that frequently can and do make people even more sick and sometimes kill them.

I had inpatient surg a few weeks ago, the nurse told me to do everything I could to get out of the hospital as quickly as I could, I asked her if it was because of the flu, she said sure but even without the flu there are too many germs floating around the hospital, she even said a hospital is no place for a sick person. lol

I am sure that no one will ever convince you that it wasn't the flu shot. Of course there are germs in hospitals. There are a lot of sick, vulnerable people and a lot of sources for infection. Why bring the flu in on top of it.

 

[ginna74]

I don't see a problem with this at all. Seems logical to me, but that is just me.

 

[Piecey]

It is easy to be flippant about other people's jobs, isn't it? Have you looked at the unemployment rate of your state?

Besides, you and your babies are at as big a risk at the local Kroger's or Mommy and me group as you would be from a worker at the hospital. Probably one heck of a lot more. And if you have had your shot, you needn't worry anyway.

I'm not sure what the unemployment rate in West Virginia has to do with this? I'm well aware that people in this state are suffering It seems to me that if they are that concerned for their job they'd just get the shot and protect themselves and their patients.

I would also NOT be at a greater risk of catching flu at Kroger. When I go grocery shopping I get what I need and I leave. I do self-check out and I rarely encounter another human being for my entire trip.
When I've been in the hospital, I have countless medical staff coming in and out of my room checking this or that and being in direct contact with me while my immune system has already taken a beating.
I'm not sure how you can think that Kroger would be more dangerous

I also don't see how whether or not I've been vaccinated has anything to do with my response or to this thread in general???

 

[C.Ann]

It seems to me that requiring heath care professionals to take measures to prevent illness in themselves that could be fatal to those for which they care (which is their job) is a reasonable request.

I get that some people don't want to get the vaccine. But, perhaps those folks shouldn't be in professions where their choice could kill someone else.

I don't have a problem with it. Some jobs have requirements that others do not due to the nature of the job. Some require background checks, some require financial disclosures. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

There are more sick people at the hospital than there are at Walmart. There are also more immunocompromised people at the hospital than there are at Walmart. The risk of contact and of contracting an illness is therefore much higher at the hospital.

In any event, the TB vaccine is not reliable in preventing TB in adults.

One thing a hospitalized patient should be able to do is to enter the hospital for care and feel that everything has been done that can and will prevent them from getting sicker. Patients in ICU are very vulnerable. Patients recovering from surgery are vulnerable. Patients with depressed immune systems are especially vulnerable. While the flu may make a hospital worker very sick, it can kill patients. Would I want an unimmunized nurse or health care worker caring for my newborn infant or sick child? Absolutely not. We require children to be immunized to attend school. Requiring health care workers to be immunized to attend to the sick should be seen as a reasonable expectation. I don't know how this can be equated to tobacco use, unless someone is blowing smoke in my face, nor obesity but delivering pathogens to my bedside? Yup, that's a hazard.

Hospitals are full of sick people; not necessarily "infected" people. Often immunosupressed people, newborns, post operative patients, etc. The best way to prevent the flu is a FLU SHOT. Everything else should be expected and done, but it isn't foolproof. An employee can pick up the flu at home, bring it to work and spread it before they know they have it.

Oh, and by the way, current data estimates that only about 40% of health care workers wash their hands....this is also now a patient safety goal and states are beginning to standardize data collection on this so that they can mandate the reporting and tie performance to compensation.

I always get my flu shot, it makes sense for my family that I get vaccinated when I am exposed to so many people with the flu.