w/c cheats-- what would you do?

[roadtripper]

OK--
Let me preface this by stating that I am well aware that many people w/o visible disabilities use w/cs at WDW, and need to do so. I believe that all people, especially people with disabilities should do what they need to do to enjoy the parks. My DS, 7 has CP and uses a w/c almost exclusively, but we have friends who use w/c at WDW for their kids with other non-mobility related issues, and I think that's fine. Now that I have given full disclosure, I want to tell you what we saw last week at Animal Kingdom. My DD and I were in line for the River Rapids when a party of 10 was escorted in line in front of us-- one boy in a rented adult w/c with no visible disability, swinging his legs and communicating with all the people in his party, and then got out of the chair, stood around, walked around. Still, I thought, heart condition, whatever-- DO NOT JUDGE. Two minutes later, as the line started moving again, the mom forced the OTHER brother into the w/c, who proceeded to act as though he had some developmental disabilities which had not been apparent previously. I was so shocked by this charade that I was ready to say something to the mom, but then they were ushered to the accessible line. When we went through, I notified the cast member that the brothers were taking turns being disabled, and to keep an eye on them. I actually hoped to run into the mom in the park so I could say something to her. I was planning on "What a challenge it must be to raise two children with disabilities." I never saw her again. It was a really busy week at the parks, and I just got the vibe that they were trying to pull a fast one, and they got away with it. I have never seen anything like this before at WDW. At first I thought that maybe they were both disabled, but wouldn't you rent two chairs, especially when you have 10 people to help? My question is-- what would you have done? Would you have said anything? Just looking for advice from the experts. Thanks

 

[Cheshire Figment]

Rather than just reporting it to a CM at the line, I would have asked that someone from Security contact me as soon as possible. They would have been able to handle the situation; since most are in plain clothes, they could have had a constant survailiance maintained and taken necessary steps if they personally observed the cheating.

 

[Sarahsmom85]

I remember once a car with 4 young people took the handicap parking space I needed. Seeing no apparent disabliity, big mouth me says you don't look very disabilited, the guys says I'm missing two toes. disabled i don't think so......
I know when I applied for our plates, we had to get lots of paperwork to prove our disability. Now it seems like ever Tom, Dick and Harry has a hangtag.
I really don't think too much would have been done it you told anyone else. They would just make up some kind of excuse.
We on the other hand can not pretend we are not disabled. Seems kind of unfair. What would we give not to have to push a wheelchair.

 

[SueM in MN]

Well, in most cases, there is little "advantage" to anyone using a wheelchair (except having a place to sit) since so many of the lines are Mainstream Access. So, IMHO, I don't think there are probably as many cheaters as many people think.
CMs can contact security, so if I saw something I wanted to report, I'd contact the CM and let them deal with it.

Also, seeing a short piece of a situation doesn't necessarily mean they were cheating. My youngest DD has CP and can't walk or stand. She does like to get out of her wheelchair at times and sit on a bench with her legs crossed, swinging her top leg (she needs to be transferred and have her legs crossed for her). We have actually overheard people say that we must be cheating when they see DD siting on the bench with her wheelchair next to her. When my DDs were littler, sometimes older DD would get in the wheelchair and drive around - just fooling around. Someone who saw her in it might assume it was her wheelchair. If they saw the real owner in the wheelchair later, they might assume we were cheating, since the girls had switched off.

 

[roadtripper]

My DD likes to sit in her brother's w/c too, as she did at Epcot while he was rocking out to the British Invasion (standing while I held him and bouncing up and down). I have never seen anyone else at WDW that I suspected to be manipulating the system-- this was that obvious. I guess I have to have faith in karma (especially since we were in Asia at the time!) Re: handicapped parking, my standard line is always "Excuse me, you forgot to hang your handicapped placard" just in case they really did forget. No confrontations that way, but the message is clear.

 

[Figaro]

I really haven't ever seen anything that looks like cheating with the wheelchairs either. Plus, Sue is exactly right about how little advantage (and how much of a pain) a wheelchair actually is at WDW.

I also don't ever say anything to anyone parking in a handicapped space without a placard. I am embarassed to admit that there have been times when I have been a total airhead and forgotten to hang mine up. And other times when it slid off of the rear view mirror to the floor and I didn't notice until I got back in the car.

Having people yell at me on those two occassions (plus once when I parked in the spot right next to a handicapped spot and didn't of course put up my placard) was miserable enough to make me cry.

(And roadtripper, I know you yell at people! I was just more talking about how terrible it can be to have people be upset about the placard not being visible)!

 

[roadtripper]

(And roadtripper, I know you yell at people! I was just more talking about how terrible it can be to have people be upset about the placard not being visible)!

Yikes! I hope you meant to type-- I know you DON'T yell at people-- cuz I don't. Life's too short. But I do gently let people know that it is a handicapped space. I save my furious mother bear routine for my city special ed administration
Once a guy yelled at me since he didn't know about the placards-- he didn't see the logo on the license plate. When he saw me take my son and his chair out, he felt so bad I had to calm him down, and thank him for being a champion for people with disabilities. We do need the watchdogs, I think. Take care.

 

[Figaro]

LOL, roadtripper!

Yes, I meant to type "don't."(smile). That's what happens when one cat races across the keyboard and knocks all my stuff to the floor and when I pick it up, the other one decides to chomp my hand(smile).

 

[unvRAIDERS]

In reference to the comment about people parking in H/C spaces who do not appear to be H/C, Speaking from personal experiences, I have had at least 20 diffrent individuals enquiring as to "WHO, WHAT, WHERE, WHEN & WHY" I park in H/C. In the begining I took it extremely hard and very offensive. My first reaction was rage along with lots of yelling. Now I simply look at the person for a second then go around the car open the passenger door carry my 6 yr old baby boy out & close the door. This person is now feeling the urge to pull the foot out of their mouth. My son has Microcephaly & CP, society can be very cruel & harsh I now this. I just don't feel I have to give an explanation to every 1 who doubts If I belong in that space, what I wouldn't give to not have to own a blue placard

 

[luvmarypoppins]

Ok I admit, I must look strange to alot of people at disney. I use the wheelchair as more of a walker to help me walk faster and keep up with my family. When I want to rest, I park it next to a bench. I know people stare at me, but I dont look too handicapped until late in the day after a long day of walking. Once some nice lady shouted to me at the ak to go and get a wheelchair. I must have looked pathetic by then. I do not use it to get line access. I only once used it to watch a parade because the pain prevented me from standing any longer. Even some cast members look at me when I want to use the handicapped access areas at the monorail or train station. I dont care anymore about the stares, I have been getting them long enough. If someone was to ever say something rude to me, only a guest, I must say I do have a little trick up my sleeve. I will actually show them one of my disabilities that is not visible unless I show it. I prefer not to discuss it but it would be something of a shock value type thing like pulling up a pant leg and seeing a leg etc. That will shut them up for sure. I almost did it once. My ds would think it would be gross, but I think those who question me deserve only my "best". Thanks for letting me vent.

 

[Sarahsmom85]

The problem with the blue hangtag is when grandma or grandpa is gone jr. inherits the hangtag. That's who I have a problem with. It just seems that more people than not have the hangtags. What happen to plates. I know about the looks. A lot of times I leave my DH off at the front door, expecially in the snow and then go park in the w/c parking. I get some looks.
I just know that a lot of people abuse the system by using hang tags that do not belong to them.

 

[Figaro]

Hi, sarahsmom85!

We don't have handicapped license plates because our state says you can have either the placard or the plates. Since we have two cars and I travel with friends, it wouldn't make any sense to have license plates on a vehicle sitting at home.

And I can honestly say that the only time I have ever seen someone in a handicapped spot that they shouldn't have been was when a catering truck was parked in it at the local mall. A quick stop in the office and a very angry mall manager took care of that in a matter of minutes(smile).

I am wondering if at least part of the problem with not enough handicapped slots is that because the population is aging and more people are disabled, but the number of slots hasn't increased? That what is more likely is that the system has a problem, not that people are cheating the system.

 

[BillSears]

It really depends on the area of the country you are in. Here in Maryland things have gotten out of hand. There are alot of handicapped spaces but it's getting tough to find one that is open to park in.

The MVA here has started requiring more documentation on obtaining handicapped plates and placards but it's going to take a few years before this has an effect on the current situation.

I do see ALOT of what I think is abuse. People who seem perfectly fine who hop out of thier car and go about thier business. I'm fairly certain that most of these people are just using the placard that they got for when they transport thier Grandmother or some such. But I think of the comments from people here with invisable handicaps and I keep my mouth shut about it.

Sarasmom, one thing that the MVA here has done is issue some guidelines about when it is proper to use the handicapped parking space. They now state that you should not park in the handicapped parking space if you've dropped the person who the placard is for off at the door. I think thier reasoning is that the persons in the car at the time of parking do not require the pass, therefore they have no reason to park in the handicapped spot.

 

[Lachesis00]

This is happening in Alaska... a LOT In the past 5 years people using handicapped passes has jumped 1000%. People are getting 5yr passes for a broken leg.
We DO have plates and yet at work there are 10 cars. I am the only one with plates, the rest have 5 year passes. Of the 9 who have passes only one appears to need to park there. I told her she needs to get plates.
Of the other 8 one lady had the stomache surgery, there is a young guy (mid 20's) and his younger girlfriend. He drives a truck that is HUGE like one of those monster trucks. I know if I tried to jump out Id bust my leg *lol*. They always watch me and wait to get out of their rig.
One heavy set guy has an expired pass... there is a SUV w/a 5 year pass... In the winter there are 3 cars who park in the spots ONLY in BAD weather, snow, wind, rain (yes the weather could aggrevate their disability, but I suspect it's more being lazy as they don't have any kind of pass/plate). More then once I've put a note on the front door "if you need to park in the handicapped parking places please get a pass. If you are not disabled, please do not take spots others need to use".

I guess my point is, why don't these people have the PLATES instead of 5 year passes. It makes me much more questionable of their disability. When I got my plates I got a pass for traveling or being in someone elses car (granted I can't say if they own the car for sure or not, but I know for sure 3 of them do own their car).

Fred Meyers has 25 spots open for handicapped parking. At least twice a week it's impossible to find close parking. We're not that big of a city.
I am trying to find out who to contact to get the "laws" changed. I know right now I could go get a new pass once a month claiming to loose mine and I'd be given it. There are no records of the passes that hang in the windows (well there is, in a notebook).
I know there are disabled people, I just get frusterated that they get the temp 5 year passes and while they may have a disabilty if it's gonna be for 5 years, it's probably going to be an issue for life.

When I got my pass I had to show *so* much documentation and still got questioned (and I LOOK it physically). Now a doctor checks a box, signs the paper and thats it. Too easy IMO.

Sorry a minor rant of mine.

Originally posted by BillSears
It really depends on the area of the country you are in. Here in Maryland things have gotten out of hand. There are alot of handicapped spaces but it's getting tough to find one that is open to park in.

The MVA here has started requiring more documentation on obtaining handicapped plates and placards but it's going to take a few years before this has an effect on the current situation.

I do see ALOT of what I think is abuse. People who seem perfectly fine who hop out of thier car and go about thier business. I'm fairly certain that most of these people are just using the placard that they got for when they transport thier Grandmother or some such. But I think of the comments from people here with invisable handicaps and I keep my mouth shut about it.

 

[Figaro]

Hi, Lachesis00!

Here in Minnesota, there are red hang tags for temporary disabilities and they are good for 6 months. The blue (permanent) hang tags are good for 5 years. The form is relatively easy for my physician to fill out, as he only has to check the type of disability and then write a bit about why I am not able to walk any distances. According to a police officer friend, it is all in my states computer database and very easy to check and see if the name on the car license matches the name on the hang tag.

Which of course doesn't mean a thing because here I can have either a hang tag or license plates but not both. I would never, ever have the license plates because it would make it far too difficult for me. I am usually not the person driving (riding with my spouse in his car or with friends) and need to have the hang tag with me and not on the car that I am not using(smile). Plus I take the hang tag with me when we travel to use down at WDW and any other place that has handicapped parking.

I guess my point (which as usual, I lost track of)(smile), is that every state is different, our disabilities are different and so the best solution as far as handicapped parking spaces are probably also going to be different. What works for you (disabled plates on your car) would be too restrictive for me and make it much more difficult for me to get around. I seldom can go out unaccompanied anymore, as I fall too much now and that means I am not always the person who is driving.

 

[SueM in MN]

From what I understand, one of the things that was supposed to happen along with the ADA was a consistent standard for handicapped parking permits, consistent format of the hangtags themselves and consistent rules about how they would be administered (when expire, how given out, what conditions and proofs were needed). In actual fact, it looks like some states have formatted what they do to follow the federal (I think they are guidelines, but not sure) and otherr states still are doing their own thing.
For some people (like those who own a car and will be using it all the time) plates might work well, but then they have nothing if the travel or if their own vehicle is out of commission for a while.
What they really need to do is something to the doctors who are the gatekeepers. Some sign the forms easily and give them out to anyone who asks. Others won't sign the form for people who meet all the criteria.
Another thing they need to do is invalidate the pass when the person it was issued to dies. There are a lot of those around. And, they need to have some consequence to the perrson who is falsely using someone else'sparking permit.

 

[Sarahsmom85]

What I have problem with is that no one keeps track of the expired tags. I know someone that is driving around with expired registration for 2 yrs, if nothing is being done about unless they get stopped for something, what do you think is being done about illegal use of hangtags. We had a tv station several yrs ago sit out side a mall and stop people in handicap spaces and ask about the disabilitys that didn't look valid. lots of people didn't want to talk, most made up excuses, they estimited 2 out of 10 people had valid reasons to be parked there.

They should have some type of program that when grandma dies the hangtag needs to be turned in with her plates.

I have a friend who has her great Aunts hangtag because she takes her out of the nursing home once in a while shopping. She never uses it when not with the great aunt.

I just bet my DH $20 the other day that there would be a car parked between my van and the next car in the h/c parking spot at the hospital. I left a good amount a space because we have a ramp that needs to come out. Sure enough we come out and there is a car parked there. It does have hangtags but never the less it is parked in the xxxx spots for extra room. So i have to back up and block the road to load up the van.

We are renting a van for our up coming trip, they said to bring a hangtag i have plates. The guy at the rental said his van will be marked as W/C so we should have no problem with W/C parking.
I would rather have a real hangtag. I'm going to try to get a temp one.

 

[Figaro]

I talked with a friend in the police department and he said that if you believe that someone is using a hang tag fradulently to call the police and report it. Be prepared to give the license number of the vehicle, location of the vehicle and the hang tag number as well as the name of the driver (if you know who it is). He said that this is the most effective way to deal with this and that at least here, they do investigate it. It was because people reported some basketball players at the U of M that they were caught using stolen hang tags.

I really don't think it does the least bit of good to personally confront people that you think are cheating, as the cheats aren't going to be shamed into better behavior and the people with invisible disabilities are going to have to deal with being told one more time that the person confronting them thinks they are a cheater.

 

[Andrew Bichard]

Originally posted by SueM in MN
For some people (like those who own a car and will be using it all the time) plates might work well, but then they have nothing if the travel or if their own vehicle is out of commission for a while.
What they really need to do is something to the doctors who are the gatekeepers. Some sign the forms easily and give them out to anyone who asks. Others won't sign the form for people who meet all the criteria.

And, they need to have some consequence to the perrson who is falsely using someone else'sparking permit.

We have some of the same problems here in the UK with our 'Blue Badges' Ours carry a photo of the person it was issued to, to prevent it being used by anyone else. However, the law says it must be placed on the dashboard photo down with the issuing authorities name & reference uppermost. The legislaters forgot to give traffic wardens & police the right to ask to see the photo side, making it easier to cheat! I read today that this is to be reconsidered - about time too!.

One problem now is Blue Badge theft. In the big cities where parking is difficult, the disabled are having their windows smashed and the badges stolen.

It is difficult to judge anyone who might have a 'hidden' disability, but there is certainly a perception over here, that some doctors authorse 'Blue Badges' far too easily.

Andrew

 

[pumpkinboy]

A funny aside in this conversation, I sometimes get really dirty looks from senior citizens when I (an able-bodied 40 yr old man) hop out of our minivan parked in a HC spot (tag dangling from mirror); but when they then see me pull our 6 yr old DS's wheelchair out of the back and load him in most (but not all) will look relieved.