VWL Groupies,
My OCD behavior is in hyper overdrive. But I think I have used enough mental energy to calm my obsessive fixation on this topic. I copied/pasted some thoughts from the other board. I pop in on that one to see what they are talking about, and I believe they got to 20 pages on this. So I cherry picked some thoughts that I figured you might find interesting. I will be done on this for a while now. It seems lots of folks are affected by it or have lots to say about it. The most interesting topic I saw, (after I learned I am I a "
walmart" disney consumer) was the concierge level idea. That would be kinda of neat. Always wondered what the 7th floor looked like looking out on the pool and lake.
greg
I have been reading both threads here and over on the Dis about this rumor. As with all rumor, 50% is truth. With that, I do believe some of the proposed changes will happen.
1. Concierge rooms converted to DVC. Concierge CRO is sooooo expensive I do believe this category is not booked to capacity. Not sure what the vacancy rate is, but I'm assuming pretty high.
2. Refurbishing Artist Point. I know many like it as it is but our last visit there was not good. Overpriced and limited food offerings. I do see a change there.
3. Tepees? No.
4. A change in the points chart to accommodate concierge. But what will be cheaper to offset the points for concierge?
It's no secret that, when it comes to VWL, we are 100% biased and happily so. We haven't stayed in the hotel section in many years, and, given the $400+ to stay there, I could understand why this resort - and most other Deluxe resorts - would see reduced occupancy with each price increase. Given changes to our financial circumstances in the last two years, if we hadn't become DVC members, we'd be staying at Moderates by now. That's probably true for many other regular non-DVC visitors.
Time will tell how much of this is rumor, but I'd welcome an increase in the number of villas as a whole.
Refurbishing Artist Point? No. Personally speaking, this is our favorite restaurant on property. Sorry if it falls short for others, but we've never had anything less than stellar food and service there.
I read through 26 pages over there - somewhere in the middle OP I think, posted a rant @ Disney management naming them by name - very bitter.
I assume any new direct DVC sales would have an end date in line w/ VGF & Poly and of course WLV ends in 2042 any thoughts on how they would handle the different use years?
Disney was ROFRing a lot of BC resale(s) a while ago - wonder if they are planning a BC addition coupled w/ an extension of end date offer and this WLV is a false leak. They've added a lot of DVC inventory by MK (BLT, VGF & Poly) and haven't touched the Epcot/DHS area in a long while - so it seems to me before they build more MK DVC they need more Epcot/DHS. Concierge there makes sense too as the demographic is slightly more adult, IMO.
Commented:
If they do convert rooms, I do not see them making it part of the existing DVC contracts for the resort. Looking at 2016 or later for them to sell. That would be 26 years for the end.
An extension like OKW was a disaster because too many existing owners will never add on. Remember, many owners will be in their 80s or older. either Disney would price an extension so low that management should be fired, or they plan to take points back in 2042. Points are likely to be over $400 per point in 2043 when inflation is factored in.
Reply:
I think this makes sense - maybe they do offer an extension for those who want it, but for all who don't, they get the points back and get to sell them again, perhaps after a massive refurbishment.
They could go on forever with staggered end-dates. Two problems with that though are 1) they are committing to that resorts configuration for another 50 years or so and 2) they have to provide a quality resort experience during periods when an aging resort will need some massive refurbishment (perhaps as harsh a makeover as the Polynesian is getting. If you are a VWL II owner, would you be OK with your resort being torn up for a 18 months or so during a major facelift?
What I don't know is that if you have two different end-dates for one resort, say VWL I and VWL II are they essentially different beasts so that VWL I owners can't book VWL II until 7 months and vice versa?
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This was similar to my thought from the other day. greg
I just don't see how they can segregate the resort based on a VWL1 and VWL2 scenario. I would think all owners would have to have all access. The only reason I could see creating a VWL2 is for the longer end date. I think everything else would have to be equal.
This is last one and I found it fairly insightful. greg
They assume that their way of vacationing is the best and all viewpoints there are posted from that perspective. In their view only a true DELUXE experience is worth it and because of DVC the Disney Deluxe resorts are no longer really Deluxe. That is pure rubbish but it is their modus operandi.
The truth is there are all different types of vacationers. Disney knows this. My guess is they have whole marketing departments doing constant analysis on just this..what is the vacationer looking for? If the occupancy rates quoted are correct, it is not for the Disney Deluxe experience..at least not to the level built at the existing price point..which Disney has to maintain if they plan to differentiate their lodging offerings (price point seems to be a big thing over there on that board).
So, Disney either has to do something that creates the demand for their Deluxe offerings in the cash world or find another way to fill them. If you look at DVC occupancy rates the answer is easy.... If you convert rooms to DVC you increase occupancy (first 2 weeks of December is a down time for most of Disney but not so for DVC rooms...) and costs (only cleaning every 3 days) so in effect if you convert to DVC rooms you have increased occupancy which allows you to make money for onsite sales, you cover maintenance costs that used to be expense, and you generate large cash flow on the front end...
From a business perspective it makes total sense. The difficulty will be the contracts.
Do they add on to existing contracts like they did with Treehouses? If so, the BWV, BCV, VWL add on's will have to be a discounted price. Simply not enough time left on them. But that may also allow them to hit a market demographic they have currently priced out of? OR, they could do BWV2, BCV2, VWL2, that has contracting into 2070. They would be separate contracts and life with new rooms declared. This is doable because existing DVC space at those resorts is truly separate and in different buildings (unlike Jambo). The beauty of this for DVC is that they could simply allow the 2042 contacts to expire (no extension) and "add" them to the "2" offerings after a refurb and have "new" inventory to sell in 2044 after a year refurb...
As a finance guy, this is fascinating discussion. Simply a great idea. I would love to be on the inside with these conversations.
