Voter registration fraud

Kathi OD

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Over the past several weeks, this board has been full of threads that discuss ACORN, it's fraudulent practices regarding voter registration, and its connection to the Democratic party.

This morning, while checking out the news links on Google (hey, its Saturday morning. I just want the basics), I literally stumbled onto this piece about a group, called YPM, whom I had never heard of before.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fraud18-2008oct18,0,1216330.story

According the the article, this group, like ACORN, is engaging in practices that, if not fraudulent, are at least unethical. However, they have ties to the Republican party. In fact, the article states that YPM was hired by the Republican party.

I guess I should say that I'm not super-politicized, but I am voting in the fall election. I know who I'm voting for, but not necessarily because I think he's going to be a much better choice than the other guy. They both have their faults. As a matter of fact, a few weeks ago I was leaning in the other direction, so I won't get all crazy and angry if that other guy wins.

But what I am curious about is how some people view this situation where the argument can be made that the "pot has been calling the kettle black." Is it worse that ACORN has been "connected to" the Democrats or that YPM has been "hired" by the Republicans? OR....are both groups equally despicable?

I shouldn't have to say this, but will........... civilized discussion please.
 
I'm sure partisans on both sides have tried to add 'their' voters to the roles. I think the McCain campaign has overplayed their hand by demonizing ACORN.
 
I have never heard of this group, but any group that engages in voter fraud needs to be punished. That is no way to win an election.
 
Here in Michigan, this is taken care of by the ID requirement; a requirement I think is a good idea:

Elections & Voting

What is the Voter ID requirement?

Answer:
When you go to the polls to cast a ballot, you will be asked to produce voter identification. The requirements are the result of a 1996 law recently determined to be enforceable by the Michigan Supreme Court.

The following types of photo ID are acceptable:

Michigan driver's license or state-issued ID card
Driver's license or personal identification card issued by another state
Federal or state government-issued photo identification
U.S. passport
Military ID with photo
Student identification with photo from a high school or accredited institution of higher learning
Tribal identification card with photo
 

Regardless of stupid false registrations, does anyone think that any one of those, let alone Mickey Mouse, would be allowed to vote? This is much ado about nothing.
 
McCain/Palin - YPM, G. Gordon Liddy and crazy minister = Folksy, Patriotic Americans.

Obama/Biden - Acorn, Ayers and crazy minister = Unpatriotic terrorist.

I have very little concerns about voter fraud. There is a huge difference between registering someone multiple times and having them actually get away with voting multiple times. We have a hard enough time getting people to show up and vote in this country just one time. I can't imagine a ton of people spending their entire day on Nov 4th going from place to place to vote multiple times.
 
I have very little concerns about voter fraud. There is a huge difference between registering someone multiple times and having them actually get away with voting multiple times. We have a hard enough time getting people to show up and vote in this country just one time. I can't imagine a ton of people spending their entire day on Nov 4th going from place to place to vote multiple times.

Exactly. To me this whole issue seems to revolve around hiring people to register people to vote and paying them per registration. They sometimes get a little creative in making their paycheck bigger. It's the same thing that happens when interest groups hire signature collectors to get signature for state petitions and they're paid by the signature. I am pretty sure that Mickey Mouse (or any of the other fictional voters they've added to pad their paycheck) is going to show up and be handed the ballot without identification or a voter registration card.
 
McCain/Palin - YPM, G. Gordon Liddy and crazy minister = Folksy, Patriotic Americans.

Obama/Biden - Acorn, Ayers and crazy minister = Unpatriotic terrorist.

Are you seriously trying to put G. Gordon Liddy in the same boat as someone who bombed in the capital and the pentagon? Ayers is an unpatriotic terrorist! He bombed our capital building - that alone makes him an unpatriotic terrorist. Liddy, on the other hand participated in watergate, for which he served time in prison and has since denounced that past. Something that Ayers hasn't done...
 
Are you seriously trying to put G. Gordon Liddy in the same boat as someone who bombed in the capital and the pentagon? Ayers is an unpatriotic terrorist! He bombed our capital building - that alone makes him an unpatriotic terrorist. Liddy, on the other hand participated in watergate, for which he served time in prison and has since denounced that past. Something that Ayers hasn't done...
Ayers, along with several other 19 to 21 year olds, set bombs in empty buildings during the late 60's and early 70's in protest of the Vietnam war. The closest that group came to killing anyone was when a mis-tripped bomb killed three or four of their own group in their own building.

It is now 2008 and those stupid college-aged students of the 60's and early 70's with their radical ideas have evolved into steady, reliable adults who've been contributing to society for decades. They are old enough to be eligible for retirement.

That's why I'm an Obama supporter: I don't live in the past - I look forward to the future. I don't even care that Obama sat with Ayers on an anti-poverty group board 1998. That was 10 years ago! And this is the board upon which both Obama and Ayers sat:

http://www.woodsfund.org/site/epage/61420_735.htm

Who We Are

Woods Fund of Chicago Mission

Woods Fund of Chicago is a grantmaking foundation whose goal is to increase opportunities for less advantaged people and communities in the metropolitan area, including the opportunity to shape decisions affecting them. The foundation works primarily as a funding partner with nonprofit organizations. Woods supports nonprofits in their important roles of engaging people in civic life, addressing the causes of poverty and other challenges facing the region, promoting more effective public policies, reducing racism and other barriers to equal opportunity, and building a sense of community and common ground.

Sorry. I'm not seeing terrorists here.

The G. Gordon Liddy thing, however.....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/watergate/liddy.html

Liddy has been known to support a conspiracy theory that the Watergate break-in was a means of covering up a call-girl ring run out of the Democratic National Committee headquarters.

Liddy was convicted for his role in the Watergate break-in, for conspiracy in the Daniel Ellsberg case and for contempt of court, spending about four and a half years in prison. In 1986, a federal appeals court found Liddy liable for $20,499 in back taxes on Watergate slush-fund money, rejecting his claim that his benefits did not exceed $45,000. As one of the White House "plumbers," Liddy spent about $300,000 engineering political dirty tricks and the Watergate break-in. Liddy lives in Fort Washington, Md.
I'm kinda seeing a resemblance. Especially when it comes to plumbers, engineering dirty political tricks and intense interest in the sex lives of other people. :laughing:
 
Are you seriously trying to put G. Gordon Liddy in the same boat as someone who bombed in the capital and the pentagon? Ayers is an unpatriotic terrorist! He bombed our capital building - that alone makes him an unpatriotic terrorist. Liddy, on the other hand participated in watergate, for which he served time in prison and has since denounced that past. Something that Ayers hasn't done...

We can switch out Carl Linder for Liddy if Liddy isn't "terroristy" enough for you.
 
Ayers, along with several other 19 to 21 year olds, set bombs in empty buildings during the late 60's and early 70's in protest of the Vietnam war. The closest that group came to killing anyone was when a mis-tripped bomb killed three or four of their own group in their own building.

It is now 2008 and those stupid college-aged students of the 60's and early 70's with their radical ideas have evolved into steady, reliable adults who've been contributing to society for decades. They are old enough to be eligible for retirement.

That's why I'm an Obama supporter: I don't live in the past - I look forward to the future. I don't even care that Obama sat with Ayers on an anti-poverty group board 1998. That was 10 years ago! And this is the board upon which both Obama and Ayers sat:

http://www.woodsfund.org/site/epage/61420_735.htm



Sorry. I'm not seeing terrorists here.

The G. Gordon Liddy thing, however.....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/watergate/liddy.html

I'm kinda seeing a resemblance. Especially when it comes to plumbers, engineering dirty political tricks and intense interest in the sex lives of other people. :laughing:

A Chronology of events of "Weather Underground Organization" (WUO)

18-22 June, 1969 – SDS National Convention held in Chicago, Illinois. Publication of "Weatherman" founding statement. Members seize control of SDS National Office.

July, 1969 – Members Bernardine Dohrn, Eleanor Raskin, Dianne Donghi, Peter Clapp, David Millstone and Diana Oughton travel to Cuba and meet representatives of the North Vietnamese and Cuban governments.

August 1969 – Weatherman member Linda Sue Evans travels to North Vietnam. Weatherman activists meet in Cleveland, Ohio, in preparation for "Days of Rage" protests scheduled for October, 1969 in Chicago.

4 September 1969 – Female members converge on South Hills High School in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where they run through the school shouting anti-war slogans and distributing literature promoting the “National Action.” The term "Pittsburgh 26" refers to the 26 women arrested in connection with this incident.

24 September 1969 – A group of members confront Chicago Police during a demonstration supporting the "National Action," and protesting the commencement of the Chicago Eight trial stemming from the 1968 Democratic National Convention.

7 October 1969 – The Haymarket Police Statue in Chicago is bombed; The Weathermen later claim credit for the bombing in their book, Prairie Fire.

8 October-11, 1969 – The "Days of Rage" riots occur in Chicago, damaging a large amount of property. 287 Weatherman members are arrested, and some become fugitives when they fail to appear for trial in connection with their arrests.

November-December, 1969 – A small number of Weatherman members join the first contingent of the Venceremos Brigade (VB) that departs for Cuba to harvest sugar cane.

6 December 1969 – Bombing of several Chicago Police cars parked in a precinct parking lot at 3600 North Halsted Street, Chicago. The WUO claims responsibility in Prairie Fire, stating it is a protest of the fatal police shooting of Illinois Black Panther Party leaders Fred Hampton and Mark Clark on 4 December 1969.

27 December-31, 1969 – The Weathermen hold a "War Council" in Flint, Michigan, where they finalize their plans to change into an underground organization that will commit strategic acts of sabotage against the government. Thereafter they are called the "Weather Underground Organization" (WUO).

February, 1970 – The WUO closes the SDS National Office in Chicago, concluding the major campus-based organization of the 1960s. The first contingent of the VB returns from Cuba and the second contingent departs. By mid-February the bulk of the leading WUO members go underground.

13 February 1970 - Several police vehicles of the Berkeley, California, Police Department are bombed in the police parking lot; 16 February 1970: A bomb is detonated at the Golden Gate Park branch of the San Francisco Police Department, killing one officer and injuring a number of other policemen. No organization claims credit for either bombing.

March, 1970 – Warrants are issued for several WUO members, who become federal fugitives when they fail to appear for trial in Chicago.

6 March 1970 – 34 sticks of dynamite are discovered in the 13th Police District of Detroit, Michigan. During February and early March, 1970, members of the WUO, led by Bill Ayers, are reported to be in Detroit, for the purpose of bombing a police facility.

6 March 1970 – WUO members Theodore Gold, Diana Oughton, and Terry Robbins are killed in the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion, when a nailbomb they were constructing detonates. The bomb was intended to be planted at a non-commissioned officer's dance at Fort Dix, New Jersey.

30 March 1970 – Chicago Police discover a WUO "bomb factory" on Chicago’s north side. A subsequent discovery of a WUO "weapons cache" in a south side Chicago apartment several days later ends WUO activity in the city.

April, 1970 – The FBI arrests WUO members Linda Sue Evans and Dianne Donghi are arrested in New York.

2 April 1970 – A federal grand jury in Chicago returns a number of indictments charging WUO members with violation of federal anti-riot laws. Also, a number of additional federal warrants charging "unlawful flight to avoid prosecution" are returned in Chicago based on the failure of WUO members to appear for trial in local cases. (The Anti-riot Law charges were later dropped in January, 1974.)

10 May 1970 – The National Guard Association building in Washington, D.C. is bombed

21 May 1970 – The WUO releases its "Declaration of a State of War" communique under Bernardine Dohrn's name.

6 June 1970 – In a letter, the WUO claims credit for bombing of the San Francisco Hall of Justice, although no explosion has occurred. Months later, workmen locate an unexploded bomb.

9 June 1970 - The New York City Police headquarters is bombed by Jane Alpert and accomplices. The Weathermen state this is in response to "police repression."

23 July 1970 – A federal grand jury in Detroit, Michigan, returns indictments against a number of underground WUO members and former WUO members charging violations of various explosives and firearms laws. (These indictments were later dropped in October, 1973.)

27 July 1970 - The United States Army base at The Presidio in San Francisco is bombed on the 11th anniversary of the Cuban Revolution. [NYT, 7/27/70]

12 September 1970 – The WUO helps Dr. Timothy Leary escape from the California Men's Colony prison.

8 October 1970 - Bombing of Marin County courthouse. WUO states this is in retaliation for the killings of Jonathan Jackson, William Christmas, and James McClain. [NYT, 8/10/70]

10 October 1970 - A Queens traffic-court building is bombed. WUO claims this is to express support for the New York prison riots. [NYT, 10/10/70, p. 12]

14 October 1970 - The Harvard Center for International Affairs is bombed. WUO claims this is to protest the war in Vietnam. [NYT, 10/14/70, p. 30]

December, 1970 – Fugitive WUO member Caroline Tanker, who fled the country for Cuba, is arrested by the FBI in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Fugitive WUO member Judith Alice Clark is arrested by the FBI in New York.

1 March 1971 - The United States Capitol is bombed. WUO states this is to protest the invasion of Laos. President Richard M. Nixon denounces the bombing as a "shocking act of violence that will outrage all Americans." [NYT, 3/2/71]

April, 1971 – FBI agents discover an abandoned WUO "bomb factory" in San Francisco, California.

29 August, 1971 - Bombing of the Office of California Prisons, allegedly in retaliation for the killing of George Jackson. [LAT, 8/29/71]

17 September 1971 - The New York Department of Corrections in Albany, New York is bombed, as per the WUO to protest the killing of 29 inmates at Attica State Penitentiary. [NYT, 9/18/71]

15 October 1971 - The bombing of William Bundy's office in the MIT research center. [NYT, 10/16/71]

19 May 1972 - Bombing of The Pentagon, "in retaliation for the U.S. bombing raid in Hanoi." [NYT, 5/19/72]

18 May 1973 - The bombing of the 103rd Police Precinct in New York. WUO states this is in response to the killing of
10-year-old black youth Clifford Glover by police.

19 September 1973 – A WUO member is arrested by the FBI in New York. Released on bond, this member again submerges into the underground.

28 September 1973 - The ITT headquarters in New York and Rome, Italy are bombed. WUO states this is in response to ITT's alleged role in the Chilean coup earlier that month. [NYT, 9/28/73]

6 March 1974 - Bombing of the Dept. of Health, Education and Welfare offices in San Francisco. WUO states this is to protest alleged sterilization of poor women. In the accompanying communiqué, the Women’s Brigade argues for "the need for women to take control of daycare, healthcare, birth control and other aspects of women's daily lives."

31 May 1974 - The Office of the California Attorney General is bombed. WUO states this is in response to the killing of six members of the Symbionese Liberation Army.

17 June 1974 - Gulf Oil's Pittsburgh headquarters is bombed. WUO states this is to protest the company's actions in Angola, Vietnam, and elsewhere.

July, 1974 – The WUO releases the book Prairie Fire, in which they indicate the need for a unified Communist Party. They encourage the creation of study groups to discuss their ideology, and continue to stress the need for violent acts. The book also admits WUO responsibility of several actions from previous years. The Prairie Fire Organizing Committee (PFOC) arises from the teachings in this book and is organized by many former WUO members.

11 September 1974 – Bombing of Anaconda Corporation (part of the Rockefeller Corporation). WUO states this is in retribution for Anaconda’s alleged involvement in the Chilean coup the previous year.

29 January 1975 - Bombing of the State Department; WUO states this is in response to escalation in Vietnam. (AP. "State Department Rattled by Blast," The Daily Times-News, January 29 1975, p.1)

March, 1975 – The WUO releases its first edition of a new magazine entitled Osawatomie.

16 June 1975 - Weathermen bomb a Banco de Ponce (a Puerto Rican bank) in New York, WUO states this is in solidarity with striking Puerto Rican cement workers.

11 July-13, 1975 – The PFOC holds its first national convention during which time they go through the formality of creating a new organization.

September, 1975 – Bombing of the Kennecott Corporation; WUO states this is in retribution for Kennecott's alleged involvement in the Chilean coup two years prior.

October 20, 1981 - Brinks robbery in which Kathy Boudin and several members of the Weather Underground and the Black Liberation Army stole over $1 million from a Brinks armored car at the Nanuet Mall, near Nyack, New York on October 20, 1981. The robbers were stopped by police later that day and engaged them in a shootout, killing two police officers and one Brinks guard as well as wounding several others.
 
A Chronology of events of "Weather Underground Organization" (WUO)

But do you not recognize that this isn't a thing of "my guy's terrorist friend isn't as bad as your guy's terrorist friend." It isn't "my guy's voter fraud group isn't as scummy as your guy's voter fraud group." And it certainly isn't "my crazy, radical, over the top minister isn't half as bad as your crazy, radical, over the top minister."

BOTH sides are guilty of the same things. They will associate with whomever they can if they can get their vote. It is what ALL politicians do. It is what ALL politicians will continue to do no matter how much they promise to reform government. But we can't call out one group or person and not the other. We take them for what they are. I do not believe McCain will seek advice on national security from Liddy or Linder nor do I believe Obama will from Ayers. I do not believe anything Acorn has done will influence the election nor will YPM.
 
If Bill Ayers were running for president this would be relevant - otherwise it's an irrelevant history lesson.
 
Over the past several weeks, this board has been full of threads that discuss ACORN, it's fraudulent practices regarding voter registration, and its connection to the Democratic party.

This morning, while checking out the news links on Google (hey, its Saturday morning. I just want the basics), I literally stumbled onto this piece about a group, called YPM, whom I had never heard of before.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fraud18-2008oct18,0,1216330.story

According the the article, this group, like ACORN, is engaging in practices that, if not fraudulent, are at least unethical. However, they have ties to the Republican party. In fact, the article states that YPM was hired by the Republican party.

I guess I should say that I'm not super-politicized, but I am voting in the fall election. I know who I'm voting for, but not necessarily because I think he's going to be a much better choice than the other guy. They both have their faults. As a matter of fact, a few weeks ago I was leaning in the other direction, so I won't get all crazy and angry if that other guy wins.

But what I am curious about is how some people view this situation where the argument can be made that the "pot has been calling the kettle black." Is it worse that ACORN has been "connected to" the Democrats or that YPM has been "hired" by the Republicans? OR....are both groups equally despicable?

I shouldn't have to say this, but will........... civilized discussion please.

by the way, Grumpy Pirate is a great guy!!!

Thanks for the praise!! (hey...Pirate!!)

and this suprises you how. Most elections have both sides doing a smoke and mirrors routine with issues. The old, "hey look over there" while pointing at the opponent and hiding his or her participation behined a screen of obfuscation.

I wish BOTH side would just knock it off.

RUM?
 
I'm sure partisans on both sides have tried to add 'their' voters to the roles. I think the McCain campaign has overplayed their hand by demonizing ACORN.
I don't think that's it: Rather, I think the McCain campaign has overplayed their hand by demonizing the Obama campaign with respect to what ACORN has done wrong. Neither Obama nor his campaign is responsible for the lax manner in which ACORN manages its employees. The McCain campaign's problem is that blaming ACORN for what ACORN does wrong doesn't gain them political negative campaigning points, which is their objective.
 
Did you know that it was ACON itself that brought the fraud to light. It has internal nets to catch registration fraud, it flagged the suspisious forms and turned them in, and opened itself up for investigation....I assumed that someone else had turned them in. Actually I assumed that the GOP had turned them in because of the lawsuit or whatever it was. Hey and McCain was ACORN's Key Note Speaker in 2002. Tell you what, you gotta love PBS's political reports. Really wish it was already November 4th and I could go back to watching brain candy tv. LOL
 
Thanks for the praise!! (hey...Pirate!!)

and this suprises you how. Most elections have both sides doing a smoke and mirrors routine with issues. The old, "hey look over there" while pointing at the opponent and hiding his or her participation behined a screen of obfuscation.

I wish BOTH side would just knock it off.

RUM?

Ahhhhhhhhhhoy me matey!! Of course, I'll partake of ye rum!

I'm not really surprised....too old to be surprised by much of anything. Really just wanting to see if most others really saw the situation the same as I did. From the responses I've read so far, I think most people agree that both groups are in the wrong. Personally, I think it's a bad strategy to throw stones when you're living in a glass house. But, hey........I'm just an associate of a Grumpy Pirate.....What the heck do I know anyway?? :rolleyes1
 
I don't think that's it: Rather, I think the McCain campaign has overplayed their hand by demonizing the Obama campaign with respect to what ACORN has done wrong. Neither Obama nor his campaign is responsible for the lax manner in which ACORN manages its employees. The McCain campaign's problem is that blaming ACORN for what ACORN does wrong doesn't gain them political negative campaigning points, which is their objective.

Obama campaign paid ACORN during the primaries to do voter registration drives. $800,000. They are responsible for the actions of organizations they fund and hire.
 


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