Video Format

Bete

DIS Veteran
Joined
Sep 14, 1999
Messages
6,506
Quality is more important to me but space constraints are something else trying to do high definiton video. Time constraints are pretty bad, too.

I'd like to get some opinions on this one. It seems Xvid might be a good choice, but I really don't have a clue about it.

Please share your opinions and choices. TIA
 
I'm not quite sure what your question is... I guess your talking about he difference between HDV and AVCHD... if that's what you mean then HDV is a form of MPEG-2 whereas AVCHD is a completely different beast which is supposed to have nearly as good a picture as the HDV but with much more compression... which is why it is used on the hard drive camcorders....

Personally I think the AVCHD was rushed into the market before it was refined. The HDV compresses the picture to a lesser degree and that generally gives you the better quality... less compression is always better for the quality standpoint.

As HDV is generally confined to miniDVs I don't really see a big space issue... minidv tapes are pretty cheap and compared to your best archive choice for a HDD camcorder using AVCHD which is hard drives... I can buy a lot of miniDVs for the price of an external hard drive and if one tape starts to go bad I might lose a few seconds of video footage... if a hard drive kicks the bucket I could loose hours of video footage.
 
Sounds like a simple question, but it's not. First, let me make it clear that I'm not an expert on the subject and am struggling to understand the basics, so don't take anything I say as gospel.

First, I think you need to keep the distinction between a container format and a compress scheme separate. The term "file format" kind of glosses over the distinction, but it's important. The container format is the file format but it contains video and audio streams that are compressed in various ways using different codecs. Some file formats include MOV, WMV, AVI, MP4, RM, MPEG, VOB, and DIVX.

Then there are the video compression codecs. These include MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4, and others. There are lots of variants of these, like DIVX and XVID, which are both flavors of MPEG-4. There is also H.264, which is an implementation of MPEG-4 Part 10.

Which is the best depends on the application. MPEG-4 generally provides better video quality at a lower bit rate than MPEG-2. On the other hand, MPEG-2 decoders are more universal, so you have fewer compatibility issues with MPEG-2. If I was looking for something that I wanted to distribute for non-techy people to watch on their TVs, I'd make a DVD (which uses VOB container files containing MPEG-2 encoded video). If I wanted to make the most universally available computer file possible, I'd use MPEG-1 (although the quality would pretty much suck). If I was willing to restrict my audience to people with reasonably current decoders, I'd probably pick H.264.

For personal use, I have most of my store bought movies encoded as MPEG-2 becaues that's the way they came and I don't like re-encoding (space is cheap). For the car, I do re-encode and I use DIVX (because that's what my mobile player likes). For videos that I make, I use HDV (because that's what the camcorder uses) and I output to MPEG-2 (when sharing things on DVD) or H.264 for personal use at the house (because it gives me the best video quality with the least space used).
 
Even though I eventually decided (after months of reading and trying to crystal ball the future) on AVCHD - one item clinched my decision and that was simply support. Sony, Canon, Adobe, etc etc has thrown full support into the AVCHD format...yes I know other still support HDV and other variants, but like HDDVD and Bluray and from everythign the experts say the writing is ont he wall for the winner.

The newer solid state camcorders support AVCHD as well..

The fact that the PS3 fully support AVCHD also helped my decision and after version 2.0 of the bluray standard comes out all bluray players will support AVCHD as well..

My only complaint is the computer horsepower needed to shove this over from one format to another.

I think you are asking which HD format to use as far as a camcorder would go..at least that is what I hope you are going for...then that is my opinion

If not and your are getting into HD to eventually burn bluray or just play it back on your comuter, then the post from markbabieri will get you going and then more reading is in order.
 

If you're mainly going to be playing it back on PCs, x264 is probably the best format at the moment - relatively small file with terrific quality. (It's a variation of h264/avc.) But you'll need a pretty fast PC to play it back (especially if doing 1080P as opposed to 720P.) This is, to some extent, true with all the codecs - you're unlike to get smooth HD playback on a PC that's slower than ~3gHz or equivalent. (Equivalent being Athlon 3000+ or any of the newer processors that do more in less cycles, like the dual core ones.)

Unfortunately, creating your own HD content is still relatively bleeding-edge - it's not nearly as difficult as 2-3 years ago, but it's still a long ways from the ease with which nearly anyone can make a decent-looking DVD on their own.
 
I think I'm getting a better understanding of it all, now.

I'm trying to pick a format to process my camcorder tape video (1920 X1080)in video editing programs like Roxio Creator, Adobe Premiere Elements, Vegas Movie Studio, and Magix 14. I like joining shorter clips of the same topic, using transitions, and some other special effects to make one complete video with bells and whistles including audio. Most of the time, when I'm shooting areas like the World Showcase countries you can't get it in all one continuos video shot when you video. As an example, you video shoot the drummers in Japan and then later you shoot the candy lady, and maybe you do the Teppan Edo restaurant, and then the general area to show the Japanese architect. After this is done, I want to join all these shorter clips into one complete Japan clip. I'll even add some pictures to it of Japan WS. That's why I'm using the video editing programs. Once you do this production it has to be outputted to what I call a useable movie format.

I'm noticing certain formats like AVI take up so much space. I even tried reducing the size to make files smaller (1440 X 1080) and it still takes up way too much space. I feel going any smaller in size is like defeating the purpose of having a high defintion camcorder.

I'm not ready to buy more expensive editing programs. The above ones are my limit, right now. I know there's Final Cut and others and I'll probably grow into a more sophiscated program, later. Even so, I don't think that helps with space constraints of these higher quality videos.
 
Check out either Pinnacle studio 12 or Ulead moviestudio/videostudio , these programs can take avchd, avi, mpeg2/4 and mkv(limited) and turn them into DVD format. I have not had the opportunity to try yet ( don't have a bluray writer yet) - but if you check out their web site they claim they now offer support for bluray/hd authoring...These are relatively cheaper programs then Adobe premier or sony Video Vegas
 
I recorded the Christmas parade from WDW and DL on my computer for a DISer who could not watch or record it. the TV tuner uses MS Media Center to record like a DVR. BUt is saves it in a "videoname".DVR-MS format. I have tried to burn a DVD with Media Center and it will not fit, it says to remove some files. It is only one file, a two hour show.

So I tried Sonic, no luck.
muvee producer no luck.

I downloaded a free converter and it locked up after an hour. Then another, seemed to work great. I came back to the computer in the morning. Only to find the sound was off by like 30 seconds or for the last half of the show...

So I am at it again. I have pinnacle studio, if I can find the disks. Maybe my problem is they are all old and the basic versions. not pro or better.

thanks for any ideas

Mikeeee
 
A while back I purchased the full version of Tunebite and used it primarily for audio purposes. It worked flawlessly. It will convert video as well but I have never used that function. Maybe this will work for you, though.
 

thanks, this one worked well, once I paid. Hehehehe the demo would only do a 300M file. the parade was 2 hours!

It was only $29.50. and it converted the 6 gig DVR-MS file to a mpeg2 in about 12 minutes!!! WIth pretty good resolution.

Then I burned a movie with sonic and the sound is off, but just slightly. Still terrible. I checked the mpeg2 file and the sound is perfect.

Mikeeee
 
Try Nero, it should be able to do something with it. You can download a free trial.

A quick Google glance indicated that the DVR-MS format is a really nasty one, likely meant to make sure that you do much with it, like edit it and make DVDs of the edited content. You may want to look for an alternate DVR software, there are plenty out there, including some free ones I think.
 
I'm off to shoot a 1st grade play in a few minutes. I'm shooting video instead of pictures. Wish me luck...my video skills need lots and lots of work.

I'm going to be producing a DVD for sale by the school. What format should I use? 16:9 (Widescreen)? 4:3 (Full Screen)? Both? I'm going to shoot 16:9, but I might be able to edit it down to a 4:3 version as well. I'm just wondering if it is worth the bother. Does anyone still have only old-style TVs?
 
I'm off to shoot a 1st grade play in a few minutes. I'm shooting video instead of pictures. Wish me luck...my video skills need lots and lots of work.

I'm going to be producing a DVD for sale by the school. What format should I use? 16:9 (Widescreen)? 4:3 (Full Screen)? Both? I'm going to shoot 16:9, but I might be able to edit it down to a 4:3 version as well. I'm just wondering if it is worth the bother. Does anyone still have only old-style TVs?

Shoot in 16:9 provided the camera shoots in true anamorphic widescreen and not just a matted widescreen. You'll get a wider field of view and, depending on the camera the video may be the exact same as the 4:3 with a wider field of view. This means you could always edit it down to 4:3.

Because DVD can take advantage of the widescreen format you'll find that fewer people show it on their screen stretched to fit their screen with people looking like their quite "large". 4:3 TV's can display 16:9 perfectly fine. And, if they are bothered by it enough, most DVD players can zoom in on the image chopping off the ends of the picture and expanding it to fill the FOV.
 
I agree with the previous poster, shoot in 16x9. I happen to only have the 'old style' 4x3 TVs in my home, they work fine so I can't bring myself to replace them just because they're old, but I prefer Wide Screen videos or movies. When buying DVDs I prefer purchasing the Wide Screen versions. But that's just me.

Oh and you guys and your 16x9 format TVs will be able to enjoy the videos better if shot in 16x9, instead of having the bars on the side of the image.
 
I did the shoot. We used two video cameras - XH-A1 and 5D Mark 2. I also used a PCM-50D off the mixed for audio. The sound was amazing. The video was OK.

Next time, I'll get a video head foe the 5d. A ball head is lousy for video. I'll spend more time before shooting to match the look of the two cameras.

I spent all weekend working on the DVD. I had to sync the sources, mix the audio, and mix the video. I also had to learn about DVD authoring. It was a ton of work, but I learned a lot.

Incidentally, it is 77 below outside right now!
 
I actually recommend shooting your own video in 4:3 unless both of the following are true:
1. You shoot in anamorphic wide screen, namely with the picture height occupying all 480 scan lines of standard definition,
2. Artistically you want a 16:9 picture.

A typical wide screen TV set has enough pixels horizontally in the middle after discounting black sidebars to achieve a 4:3 picture with good detail. A 4:3 TV set without a 16:9 knob or menu entry has only about 360 scan lines worth of pixels for the picture vertically after resizing the picture to fit (letterboxing), losing much picture quality.

A DVD picture shot or mastered as matted widescreen (letterbox; non-anamorphic) has 360 pixels of picture detail vertically and zooming it using a DVD player or the TV will increase the physical size but not increase the picture detail to the full 480 pixels.

Except that the U.S. high definition formats are both 16:9 only, and what we think of as shooting anamorphically is the standard HD shooting format. Unused side bars must be pre-recorded within the video, possibly using mattes in the camera, if a 4:3 picture is desired.
 




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