Victoria Osteen asked to leave flight

[momof2inPA]

So the thread turns from a bash Mrs. Osteen to bash the entire church?

Wow... got axe, will grind.

They weren't bashing, just informing the rest of us who don't live in Houston what these people are really like. Thanks. I'll remember to not join Lakewood Church if I ever move to Houston. I don't like a big church, anyway.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

They weren't bashing, just informing the rest of us who don't live in Houston what these people are really like. Thanks. I'll remember to not join Lakewood Church if I ever move to Houston. I don't like a big church, anyway.

Like they know the Osteen's personally and professionally so as to provide an informed opinion? Rather doubtful based on the tone of the posts on this thread.

 

[Boston Tea Party]

Like the know the Osteen's personally and professionally so as to provide an informed opinion? Rather doubtful based on the tone of the posts on this thread.

I don't know them personally, no.


But I do know, personally, that our school pulled together money from the Student Council funds, went to Sam's, got food and diapers, and several school employees left school- with the blessing of the principal - to take care of about 100 people milling around a parking lot. One lady said her child had not had a fresh diaper in two days.


Lakewood has a ton of money and resources from both the tithing and the bookstore. The pursestrings were not loosened, the doors to the Compaq Center OR their old church were never opened. Those are facts.

And, as an aside, I really think that a pastor should be at his church on Christmas. Gee whiz. In any profession there are certain times that are crucial and you just do not miss work at those times, especially for vacation.

There is still a great need here in Houston. We have literally been inundated with evacuees, refugees, whatever you want to call them. The numbers are astounding. This is a time that Lakewood could really make a difference. Can you just imagine how much they could do for the Houston Food Bank alone just by asking their parishoners to bring canned goods on one Sunday?? You know what, though? They haven't done anything remotely close to what they could be capable of doing if they would just look around the city they claim to be "home" and meet the needs of not only people from New Orleans but hometown people in need as well.

They, in my opinion, are too concerned with perpetuating their own opulence. Consequently I have no respect for them. The churches I do have respect for are those that provide assistance to those in real need by providing a food pantry, counseling, clothing, etc. Those churches sure as shoot don't have money to buy an old basketball arena that sits on prime real estate and revamp it to be, essentially, a slicked up, fancy television show.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

One lady said her child had not had a fresh diaper in two days.

And this is the responsibility of Lakewood Church alone?

Lakewood has a ton of money and resources from both the tithing and the bookstore. The pursestrings were not loosened, the doors to the Compaq Center OR their old church were never opened. Those are facts.

How do you know that neither the church nor any of its members donated time, money, resources, etc. to hurricane relief? Are you privy to how the church disburses the money it collects from members and attendees? If not, I wouldn't be so quick to make such a blanket statement.

And, as an aside, I really think that a pastor should be at his church on Christmas. Gee whiz. In any profession there are certain times that are crucial and you just do not miss work at those times, especially for vacation.

I believe this is a matter that exists between the pastor and the church members.

There is still a great need here in Houston. We have literally been inundated with evacuees, refugees, whatever you want to call them. The numbers are astounding. This is a time that Lakewood could really make a difference. Can you just imagine how much they could do for the Houston Food Bank alone just by asking their parishoners to bring canned goods on one Sunday?? You know what, though? They haven't done anything remotely close to what they could be capable of doing if they would just look around the city they claim to be "home" and meet the needs of not only people from New Orleans but hometown people in need as well.

Again, how do you know what they have or have not done, either as a corporate entity or as individual members of the community? Just because they have not thrown wide the doors of their building doesn't necessarily mean they have not contributed to hurricane relief and support in other ways. It seems quite unfair and unjustified to issue such blanket condemnations.

They, in my opinion, are too concerned with perpetuating their own opulence. Consequently I have no respect for them. The churches I do have respect for are those that provide assistance to those in real need by providing a food pantry, counseling, clothing, etc. Those churches sure as shoot don't have money to buy an old basketball arena that sits on prime real estate and revamp it to be, essentially, a slicked up, fancy television show.

So your basic complaint is that they used some of their resources to purchase adequate space to accommodate their needs.

I've never been a fan of the mega-church movement and am normally opposed to churches spending vast sums of money on purchasing land, building structures, etc. I've always believed that the money would be better used taking care of widows and orphans, providing help to those in prison, supporting efforts to house the homeless and feed the hungry.

Over the years, I've learned I am in a minority in most churches. That's ok, because I believe one day each of us will have to individually answer for what we did and didn't do while on this planet. I choose not to condemn those who believe building large buildings to house church ministries simply because I disagree with that point of view. Life is too short and we will all have to answer too soon -- and then we will find out who was wrong and who was right (I hope!).

 

[Boston Tea Party]

So your basic complaint is that they used some of their resources to purchase adequate space to accommodate their needs.

You haven't seen it, have you?

I'm not going to argue with you. I've said what I have to say as have you. You are not going to change my mind. I have given and continue to give to those in need. That matter is between me and God. Perhaps I will be judged as I have judged Lakewood, and I do believe that God will find that I have been generous in sharing my resources. Matter of fact, there are DISers who would attest to that.

Merry Christmas!

 

[KathyFP]

I have read this thread with much interest because I happen to like Joel and the message that he delivers. Yes he is young, good looking and smooth, but I don't think that should be held against him. His message is positive and pratical.

I speak to any of the interworkings of the church - I just watch him on TV.

I wasn't on the aircraft - there are always many sides to every story. Remember there is no such thing as realty on our individual perception that is influenced by our life experience.

Has there ever been a time in your life when someone misconstrued your words or actions????

 

[bumcat]

I don't know them personally but Joel Osteen once (on tv) preached about getting lost in the disney land or world, parking lot. It was one of the funniest sermons I have ever heard.

I was just glad to hear he doesn't bash the disney parks, sounds like his family had a good time there.

BTP - I thought I saw on the news that they did open the old church maybe? I do remember something about them on the news but really didn't pay that much attention.

 

[dennis99ss]

about 70 million to make the compac center adequate church space if I recall right. Plus, the selling of things such as psl's for the church. The more you pay, the closer you get. the hiring of grammy award winners, etc. for the music. The holding of all assets in Joel Osteen's name....not Lakewood Church.

I don't think this is bashing. I think it is putting out there what is up with the church that he runs. Criticism for what lakewood did or did not due during the hurricane, yes. Lakewood was the most obvious non-entity in the entire event. I am sorry, but you cannot take a congregation of 30k per service, and not have church related hurricane evacuation activity go unnoticed. There was absolutely no notice of anything lakewood in Houston. If there had been, it WOULD have been on the news, as (1) Lakewood is a big thing here, and (2) the church would not pass on the PR.

 

[cardaway]

Sounds like one of those churches that needs to start paying taxes, along with the people who run it.

 

[Beth76]

Preachers wife or not people are gonna make mistakes. But if you mention "preacher" on this board people are all over it condemming her period. Interesting from such a non-judgemental open minded bunch of folks!

Oh please. It doesn't take a perfect person to never get thrown off an aircraft. How many "perfect" people will go there whole lives without ever causing a ruckus in public? Millions!!!!! I'm holding this woman to a standard no higher than the average mature adult.

 

[disneymom3]

I don't quite understand why the Osteens are going on a skiing trip to Vail, Colorado during Christmas week in the first place?? This is what the article in AOL said, that they were flying to go skiing in Vail,Colo. for a family vacation.
Are the Osteens coming back later in the week to preach for their Christmas Eve and Day services?? Sounds kinda strange they would be taking off like that for a family vacation to a nice and expensive location, esp. during Christmas week? I could understand if Joel Osteen and family go after Christmas, but before Christmas? Is he depending on other pastors to preach for the Christmas services for him?
At my church, and I do go to a mega church in the Chicago area, our senior pastor (who is also the founding pastor of our church) doesn't go on vacation during Christmas week. For 30 yrs, our senior pastor has always preached at all of the Christmas services, unless he was very sick.

Not sure where the Osteen's priorities are at??

No kidding! DH isn't even in a paid ministry position--he just leads the band, but we sure as shootin can't be gone over Christmas of all days! He leaves at noon on Christmas eve and we don't see him again for at least 6 hours. Seems weird that the pastor would be on vacation!

 

[jimmiej]

Preachers wife or not people are gonna make mistakes. But if you mention "preacher" on this board people are all over it condemming her period. Interesting from such a non-judgemental open minded bunch of folks!

Congratulations! It only took you four posts to figure this out. I'm impressed (and in agreement).

 

[drakethib]

They just don't strike me as honest, decent people.

There a little too mcuh like Jim and Tammy.

So, is there church closed on Christmas?

They just rub me the wrong way.

Agree.

 

[Mkaz]

Wow! That must have been one crowded airplane! I guess the entire country gets to pass judgement since almost everybody was on the plane with her.

I believe Thumper once said, "If you can't say nothin' nice, don't say nothin' at all!"

 

[TandJ61574]

Don't know if the response from Victoria has been posted or not.


http://www.lakewood.cc/site/PageServer?pagename=letter_from_victoria

 

[momof2inPA]

Don't know if the response from Victoria has been posted or not.


http://www.lakewood.cc/site/PageServer?pagename=letter_from_victoria

It has been. We didn't think it jived with the account of the passenger in the seat behind her on the plane. Joel Osteen's on the cover of my Guideposts this month, but I haven't read it.