Very dissapointed with the bus transportation from BWV.

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by freediverdude
For a $400 a night hotel room, someone should expect to get a seat pretty much every time on one of those buses, and it should go directly to the theme park- in other words, dedicated buses. [...] Those people are paying WAY more than the All-Stars, and so shouldn't get the same service based on the number of guests, they should get much more.

They are paying premium prices for a premium hotel room. Although transportation is included within that rate, they're not paying premium prices for it.

Originally posted by ~Sparkly~Zoe
The deluxes share it with a lot! Swan,Dolphin, YC/BC and the BWI!

I keep trying to reinforce this fact... it is *NOT* always all five! During MOD (8-11am) its typically 2 or 3 at most, and seldom all 5. Magic Kingdom Flex is S/D and a separate bus for Y/B/BW. And the majority of the time, the Flex buses run at half capacity.

I did a Swan -> Dolphin -> Boardwalk run this morning for Magic Kingdom. Dispatched at 9:10am... A peak period. Picked up and got to the MK at 9:33. No one was on my bus for longer than 17 minutes. There were 10 people at the Swan, 5 of which were waiting for me. 2 people at the Dolphin, didn't board my bus. At the Boardwalk, there were 24 people, 17 of which got on my bus. I had 23 people on my bus. If you had a dedicated bus for each of these resorts, you'd have an average of 9% capacity for those runs.

Now, I'm not saying this is common. I did have one Y/B/BW trip in which I picked up 45 people. And I did hear some 72's today. But what I am saying is that it's NOT always the worst case scenario as people tend to think & assume.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by freediverdude
For a $400 a night hotel room, someone should expect to get a seat pretty much every time on one of those buses, and it should go directly to the theme park- in other words, dedicated buses. [...] Who wants to walk out of their wonderful relaxing room at the wonderful relaxing resort, to face this packed bus type situation, and have to decide whether to try to hold on for dear life smelling the next person's armpit, or wait for the next packed bus.

Now here's my question... how come one doesn't hear this about the Monorail? I mean, when you really think about it, you have a similar situation with the Resort Monorail.

Before I transferred into Bus Operations, I used to be a Monorail Pilot. Part of my bidline was opening shift at the Grand Floridian. I can't tell you how many times trains would come into the GF station already packed. I had a platform with at least 50-100 guests, and I was lucky to get 10-20 on board. And those 10-20 had to walk all the way up and down, searching for space, suck in thier chest, and just barely fit. Everyone else had to wait another 7-10 minutes for the next train to come in. No one ever got a seat. They all had to stand. And it was like this every day from 9-10am.

And lets not forget the Resort Monorail not only stops at all three resorts, but it also makes a stop at the TTC. So, those at the Contemporary have to go 4 stops before getting to the MK. It can take 18 minutes or more to go from the Contemporary to the MK. Such a short distance, too. Never mind the folks who are at the GF, and want to go to Epcot. Crowded train, AND they have to transfer. Thankfully the Epcot train usually isn't horribly crowded in the morning, so the have a decent chance of getting a seat there. It should also be noted, it can take up to 35 minutes to go from GF to Epcot.


But yet... no one ever complained. In fact, a common comment I heard is "Disney should expand the monorail to the rest of the parks!" (That's a whole other issue) I will grant you, the Monorail has the coolness factor... but does that really outweigh the simmilar crowding? Having to wait for the next train? Having to transfer?




*shrug* Just some insomniac thoughts.

 

[Maxwell]

My probelme is not from 9-10. It is before that. As a perk resort guests get Extra Magic Hour. We always arrive at the BW bus stop right at 7:00, which according to the front desk is when the first bus atrts running on Extra Magic Hour days. Invariably, the earliest a bus ever came was 7:30. Many times we waited until almost 8:00!!!. We missed at least 10 minutes of Extra Magic Hour. It may not seem like much but in 10 minutes right at 8:00 we can get through almost all of Fantasy Land before the crowds hit. Is a bus supposed to be there at 7:00 or not?

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by Maxwell
We always arrive at the BW bus stop right at 7:00, which according to the front desk is when the first bus atrts running on Extra Magic Hour days. Invariably, the earliest a bus ever came was 7:30.

Well, that's the problem right there... never trust the front desk on transportation issues. We're a very dynamic operation, and things change frequently. I always tell people, never trust transportation information unless they're wearing purple pants. Sounds corny, but it's good advice.

However, they were semi-correct. Buses start RUNNING at 7:00. This doesn't mean a bus will be at your stop at 7:00. Those buses are the first buses of the day, just being started up. Before a driver can take his or her bus out on the road, they must perform a pre-trip. If there's something on the bus that doesn't pass the pre-trip, it must be repaired prior to the bus going into service. Most buses leave the TTC around 7:00-7:05. This means they will arrive at thier first stop around 7:15. If they have multiple stops, guests requiring special assistance, they might be delayed, and might not get to your particular stop until 7:25, 7:30.

 

[crisi]

To those saying they didn't share a bus at CS or CBR or whereever, keep in mind that the moderates are very spread out - with several bus stops per resort - and a ton of rooms. CS is 1967 rooms. CBR is 2112 rooms. BWI, BC, YC, BWV and BCV (the route Tyler tells us is used during peak times) is 2179 rooms total - very similar in scale to CBR. POR and DL have 3048 rooms between the two of them!

Add into them any statistical difference between the way people who stay in DVC, Deluxe or Moderate resorts travel. Are DVC members less likely to spend their days in the WDW parks? (we think so over on the DVC board). Are Deluxe resort guests more likely to have a rental car? Are Swan/Dolphin/BWI guests more likely to be convention attendees not going to the parks? Seems to me that the Epcot area resorts are probably getting a better per capita deal than CBR.

 

[hightown]

As noted before, I get tired of full up buses and as much standing as we've had to do. I basically agree for premium hotels, the bus service should be premium as well. We've been lucky in that we haven't seen the extreme waits just the full buses.

BUT...I really do appreciate what a hugh and complex system Disney has developed to transport 30,000 guests and generally they do a terrific job of it! The drivers really are a great bunch.

While we my get a little testy and air our opinions on these boards, I (and we all) especially value your advise and knowledge, Tyler!

 

[jennymouse]

Tyler, in the example you quoted about your run today, that was after park opening and for MK. The biggest glitch I saw was trying to get to AK or MK for opening....7 - 8 for ee or 8 - 9 regular hours. Like in my example, there was no AK bus that came for us until after 8am AK ee opening. I mean none, notta, zilch.

Originally posted by hightown
While we my get a little testy and air our opinions on these boards, I (and we all) especially value your advise and knowledge, Tyler!

Absolutely! I agree 100%! My OP wasn't to get on your case personally, it was to report to future guests of my experiences so they can make informed decisions on whether to rent a car, etc. I do appreciate you responding to my post and trying to make us understand the system. Like I said in my origional post, this is the first time I've ever experienced anything other than top notch bus service. Hopefully, my experiences at BW were a fluke and the next time will be better. But is truely was unpleasant this time, for sure.

 

[jtbdas]

Tyler,

A special thanks for sharing some of the inside magic with us. You have helped me see it differently, even though I am never mad while at WDW, how can you be........ anyway thanks again.

 

[freediverdude]

Well, at least in my case and experience, I never complain about the monorails because a monorail seems to come every 2-3 minutes, instead of the 15 minutes or more for the buses. When I stayed at the Contemporary, I could get to Epcot in 15 minutes, while my friend who was staying at Caribbean Beach always had to allow 45 minutes to make sure to get there when she wanted to. I'm sorry, but part of the price you're paying for the monorail resorts includes being on the monorail- i.e. better transportation. Better transportation for the deluxes should include dedicated buses, especially at that price, because you are paying for the transportation when you pay for your hotel room. Doesn't Disney say that technically the buses are for resort guests only, and not merely park hopper pass holders, unless transporting from park to park? Disney can't have it both ways. Either the resort guests are paying for the bus service, or they aren't. And people staying at those Epcot and monorail resorts are paying in some cases several times the room rate at some of the other resorts, in part for the nicer hotel, and in part for the location and better transportation. Does anyone seriously think that those resorts could get away with charging 300-400 per night or more, if they weren't in those particular locations and/or on the monorail? Now come on......even the new Ritz-Carlton Orlando, which will probably end up getting AAA five diamonds, compared to the 4 diamonds (or even 3) for some of the Disney deluxes, charges around 200-250 per night. I'm sorry, but for the money Disney is charging, people shouldn't be getting that kind of bus experience. Plain and simple.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by freediverdude
Well, at least in my case and experience, I never complain about the monorails because a monorail seems to come every 2-3 minutes, instead of the 15 minutes or more for the buses. When I stayed at the Contemporary, I could get to Epcot in 15 minutes,

The Resort Monorail intervals run anywhere from 5-10 minutes... 7 minutes is the most common. It really depends on the drivers, and how long they hold in the stations yapping with the attendants.

As for getting to Epcot... in order for you to get to Epcot from the Contemporary in less than 20 minutes, everything must be timed PERFECTLY... getting on each train just before it leaves. Possible, yes... however a more average time would be 20-25 minutes...

 

[freediverdude]

Well, I was talking about the time between when one monorail leaves, the next one seems to pull up pretty soon after that, but anyway, I don't think this is the fault of the bus drivers, or even the fault of their supervisors or dispatchers or whatever. It's the person or people who make the overall transportation decisions for Walt Disney World deciding that it should be like that. I would never make a rude comment to a bus driver, even if the bus drove up full and I had to wait for another one. But I think whoever makes the overall transportation decisions should step back and look at it from a deluxe resort guest point of view. It's like, for example, if I decided to pay to stay on the concierge level (I would probably never pay that kind of price, but just for example), if I was staying there, and never used the concierge lounge, it should still be staffed and presented, just because I paid for it and might want to use it. Similarly, even in the standard rooms at these deluxe resorts, they are paying for a higher level of service, so even if these dedicated buses had to drive around half-empty at times, it should be that way because those people paid for that kind of service. Oh well, I guess I've said all I can say on the matter- I'm sure it won't change their minds, but everybody has their opinion.

 

[erikthewise]

On the monorail vs bus issue, I think it's mostly a matter of perception. You *know* the monorail well be along soon, because where else could it go? With a bus, you feel completely at the mercy of random events. It could be along in 3 minutes or 30, and even if the service is in fact very regular, the uncertainty makes the wait seem longer than it really is.

On our return trip from the MK, we left midafternoon and I thought we might have a long wait as there were few passengers waiting for busses. I was obsessing about whether we should grab a S/D bus if it came first and walk from there to BC. But we decided to wait, and sure enough a YC/BC bus came along in about 10-12 minutes and we had a pleasant ride back. (Except for the woman on the bus who told us it was going to rain the rest of the week, and was mostly right!)

 

[~Sparkly~Zoe]

On my last 3 trips, Dolphin, BWI, BWI, The buses we had gotten on always did the swan,dolphin,yc/bc and bwi!

I just hope that my next trip in dec at the swan isn't the same way!

Do they change it during regular and value season? I always go in value.

 

[Tinkbell]

OK, so has anyone ever been satisfied with the BWI transportation? I am seriously considering going there next summer. I don't mind standing, (had to do it at the GF all the time), I just don't want to be a constant "72" leftover. LOL !

 

[Rpsemont]

Just curious, for all those that have waited fo busses for EE that never seemed to come, did busses to other parks show up?

Our first trip to WDW at DXL we were at the bus stop at 7:15 for MK EE. Over the next 35 minutes we saw 2 busses to Epcot, 2 to MGM, one to Ak and 2 to DD. The other parks didn't even open until 9 - where were all those busses going? We gave up and took a cab. Have rented a car ever since.

I did write a long, long letter to Disney about my unhappiness with the tranportation system. Don't know if it really did any good or not; as I said we drive everywhere.

 

[disneyberry]

we've also experienced the same problem of not being able to board a bus at BW due to it being full after picking up guests at other resorts first. this happened to us twice, so after that, (when we have a rental car) we mostly prefer to drive to the parks.
the few times we do decide to take the bus (usually to MK), we go for a stroll and hop on the bus at the Swan.
yes, i'm ashamed to admit that those of us who do use this tactic are in effect making the BW bus problem even worse. (although dbf and i always stand even if there are seats avail, so that children or elderly who board later will have a seat)
in any case, there's also the thought that the bus loads shouldn't be so bad in the first place to cause guests to be frustrated and feel like they need to walk to a different resort in order to ensure getting on a bus.

anyway, Tyler, thanks as always for sharing your knowledge of the transportation system.

i do have some questions for you though, Tyler:

1) do YOU feel that the current Epcot Resorts bus system (routing/frequency/etc) is good the way it is?
2) what, if any, improvements do YOU think are realistic changes that could make the Epcot Resorts bus system work better (i.e. less chance of guests experiencing what jennymouse experienced)?

because you know the system so well, i trust that your opinions on this would be most helpful.
many of us, myself included, probably want to write a letter to the most appropriate management office in WDW so that Disney can see that customers are NOT satisfied with the current system, and perhaps we can also include in our letters possible ideas/suggestions for improvements that seem reasonable.
i don't really want to write to Disney about ideas that are just impossible, because that probably won't do much good.
but, i do want to write a letter.

so, if you are willing to offer your thoughts, and suggest which office you think is the most appropriate recipient (i.e. General Mgr of BW Resort, etc.), i would appreciate it.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by disneyberry
i do have some questions for you though, Tyler:

1) do YOU feel that the current Epcot Resorts bus system (routing/frequency/etc) is good the way it is?

For the morning, Yes. It's a highly dynamic system that changes constantly to meet the demands. The problem with it is that guests don't see that. If demand is low, and a bus does all 5, that's all they see. They might not see that the buses in front or behind of them were split.

Flex operation in the afternoon... MK is running just fine. AK and DTD run decently, no major issues I've seen. In the evening, DTD might have a few 72's, but dispatchers usually pad that route (along with the other routes) with extra buses for the peak 6-7:30 time.

Originally posted by disneyberry
2) what, if any, improvements do YOU think are realistic changes that could make the Epcot Resorts bus system work better (i.e. less chance of guests experiencing what jennymouse experienced)?

I know everyone wants or feel that they deserve dedicated buses... but that is unrealistic at this juncture.

What I would like to see might actually be implemented sometime soon... it's currently in the "Hrmmmmm..." phase. (These are all Flex Dispatch changes... Morning MOD operations would remain the dynamic operation that it is)

MK - S/D and Y/B/BW are split during peak times. During slow seasons they are combined. I'd separate them year round.
AK - Split S/D and Y/B/BW into two separate routes.
DTD - Same as above. During evening hours, when the Boardwalk is typically separated, run a test to see if it should be separated with the modified routes.

The *ONLY* reason I suggest this is for time. Those who board at the Marketplace, or AK and ride to the Boardwalk have a longer ride than I would prefer.

Because the majority of the crowds are outbound from AK/BB/MK during the Flex times, crowds really aren't the issue. They can always put more buses in quickly if one fills up. DTD is the only inbound run that would have crowds. If a bus fills up prematurly on an inbound run, the "Demand" bus (with Flex) might take a little longer to get there.

 

[FredS]

Tyler, I am another who has had wonderful experiences with nearly all bus drivers, and most bus trips at WDW. But I also have had, by far, the worst bus experiences when staying at the Epcot resorts. Not only do you wait through a bus or two before you can load, you are literally crammed on and it seems there is never any air circulation.

After our last trip in May and we all were miserable after waiting for a bus at MK at closing, finally being able to load but having to stand for the longest route possible to BCV (I am serious, we did NOT take the shortest/normal route -- I felt like we were at an airport circling before we could land or something!), in that miserably hot mass of bodies we vowed never again. Whether we will drive to the MK or just be certain to either leave during a slow time or take the monorail to Epcot then walk I will not endure that agonizing transporation again. It is not like that at any of the other resorts at which I have stayed but it is almost a certainty that getting from the Epcot resorts to anywhere but Epcot will be drawn-out, negative experience.

Any advice for whom to complain to would be appreciated. We will spend three days at BWV in October and plan to attend MNSSHP, so I am already trying to figure out transportation since we are flying down for that visit.